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      08-12-2013, 04:10 PM   #45
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Turbo s awd hands down.. For a "normal" looking car.
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      08-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Stock GT-R will stomp an ESS M3, what does that mean exactly!? Even a non intercooled VT1(DCT) will be faster or as fast in a straight line then a 2014 GT-R!
Stomp may have been too strong a word -- but it will certainly win. Stock 2014 GT-R runs an 11 second dead 1/4. The best times posted on this forum for VT2-625 are high/mid 11's. No way you're gonna keep up with a VT1 with less crank HP, even, than a stock GT-R.

Edit: I do see that there are a couple of sub 11 times posted on one thread -- however the cars are running Nitrous and/or octane mods, etc to get there -- which are sure to kill the S65 even quicker than usual =)
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      08-12-2013, 04:21 PM   #47
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Iím really interested in seeing how the 2015 M4 with twin turboís is going to stack up to the Porsche, when you look at the numbers the Porsche which cost $40,000 to $60,000 more than the dated e9x platform M3 isnít beating the M3 by much! So to all who are jumping ship & going over to Porsche arenít youíll just a little curious that you might be jumping ship a little too soon? From what I understand the new M4 is going to be lighter & have a lot more torque as well as hp compared to our e9x M3, not to mention the fact of the ease of tuning the new M4 (being turbo & all)

I was reading an article about the new M5 (with the V8 twin turbo setup) in the May issue of European Car which came from the factory with 560hp with a tune it was putting out 646hp & 570 lb-ftÖ..just sayin! Iím not all that thrilled about the M3 being called the M4 or the fact that weíre losing our NA V8 but a twin turbo V6 M changes the game.

When you look at the New Porsche GT3 (arguably the best Porsche in production) curb weight 3,153 475 hp 325 lb-ft msrp $130,400. Then we have the Audi R8 in full trim curb weight 3,605 5.2 liter FSIģ V10 550 hp 398 lb-ft. msrp $170,000. And the Nissan GTR curb weight 3,829 545hp 463lb-ft. msrp $99,590

In pure speculation letís just throw out some numbers, let say the new M4 comes in at a curb weight of 3,400 460hp 375lb-ft msrp $75,000 (those number are very realistic) with a $1500 tune it would kick ass (if you assume the tune would be good for about 100hp increase & a gain of 75 to 100 lb-ft) The GT3, GTR & the R8 which would be almost double the price (except for the GTR which comes in at $25,000 more) would be in the cross hairs of the M4!

I guess what Iím saying is before I can jump ship I have to at least see the numbers on the M4! I love my M3Ö.. is it the fastest? No! However, imho itís the most well rounded sports car you can buy, the question at hand is will the new M4 make up for it not being the fastest?
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      08-12-2013, 04:38 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
Iím really interested in seeing how the 2015 M4 with twin turboís is going to stack up to the Porsche, when you look at the numbers the Porsche which cost $40,000 to $60,000 more than the dated e9x platform M3 isnít beating the M3 by much! So to all who are jumping ship & going over to Porsche arenít youíll just a little curious that you might be jumping ship a little too soon? From what I understand the new M4 is going to be lighter & have a lot more torque as well as hp compared to our e9x M3, not to mention the fact of the ease of tuning the new M4 (being turbo & all)

I was reading an article about the new M5 (with the V8 twin turbo setup) in the May issue of European Car which came from the factory with 560hp with a tune it was putting out 646hp & 570 lb-ftÖ..just sayin! Iím not all that thrilled about the M3 being called the M4 or the fact that weíre losing our NA V8 but a twin turbo V6 M changes the game.

When you look at the New Porsche GT3 (arguably the best Porsche in production) curb weight 3,153 475 hp 325 lb-ft msrp $130,400. Then we have the Audi R8 in full trim curb weight 3,605 5.2 liter FSIģ V10 550 hp 398 lb-ft. msrp $170,000. And the Nissan GTR curb weight 3,829 545hp 463lb-ft. msrp $99,590

In pure speculation letís just throw out some numbers, let say the new M4 comes in at a curb weight of 3,400 460hp 375lb-ft msrp $75,000 (those number are very realistic) with a $1500 tune it would kick ass (if you assume the tune would be good for about 100hp increase & a gain of 75 to 100 lb-ft) The GT3, GTR & the R8 which would be almost double the price (except for the GTR which comes in at $25,000 more) would be in the cross hairs of the M4!

I guess what Iím saying is before I can jump ship I have to at least see the numbers on the M4! I love my M3Ö.. is it the fastest? No! However, imho itís the most well rounded sports car you can buy, the question at hand is will the new M4 make up for it not being the fastest?
Those numbers are fine, and unfortunately this thread mostly is just focused on straight line. If that is all that matters, might as well buy an 89 Mustang 5.0, build the motor, throw on a big blower, and you will run 9's all day long and walk just about anything in a straight line. No matter how good the next M3/M4 may be, it will get destroyed on the track by a 991 GT3, current model of R8 V10, etc. But that is to be expected given it will be a $80k car versus $150k. I have absolutely loved all of the M cars I have owned, but performance wise they just cannot compete overall versus the cars mentioned. Even if you had a M3 with FI, I have a hard time believing it would be able to stay up lap after lap with a GTR, Turbo, R8 V10, or GT3. One thing the M cars rule in, however, is the practical side. They tend to be very comfy, can seat 4 adults if need be, and are great value for the money. They in my opinion are superb GT cars, whereas the other mentioned are more sports cars.
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      08-12-2013, 04:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullrouted View Post
Stomp may have been too strong a word -- but it will certainly win. Stock 2014 GT-R runs an 11 second dead 1/4. The best times posted on this forum for VT2-625 are high/mid 11's. No way you're gonna keep up with a VT1 with less crank HP, even, than a stock GT-R.

Edit: I do see that there are a couple of sub 11 times posted on one thread -- however the cars are running Nitrous and/or octane mods, etc to get there -- which are sure to kill the S65 even quicker than usual =)
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about!! An M3 with a VT1 and no other mods makes 550hp on 91octane(that's more then a GT-R) and 575hp on 94 octane, put test pipes on the M3 and it makes around 600hp, that's enough to beat a stock GT-R in a straight line! As for the VT2s, some member here run in the 10s@+132mph without any nitrous or octane mods, that's more then enough to humiliate any stock GT-Rs on any type of roll-on races!!
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      08-12-2013, 04:57 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about!! An M3 with a VT1 and no other mods makes 550hp on 91octane(that's more then a GT-R) and 575hp on 94 octane, put test pipes on the M3 and it makes around 600hp, that's enough to beat a stock GT-R in a straight line! As for the VT2s, some member here run in the 10s@+132mph without any nitrous or octane mods, that's more then enough to humiliate any stock GT-Rs on any type of roll-on races!!
Are VT1's the new 'Civic' drivers, I wonder?
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      08-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Stock GT-R will stomp an ESS M3, what does that mean exactly!? Even a non intercooled VT1(DCT) will be faster or as fast in a straight line then a 2014 GT-R!
who is trapping 125 and running the quarter in 11.0 seconds flat in a 535 kit? that's pretty quick

http://wot.motortrend.com/gt-r-by-th...#axzz2bn5JQ3SC
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      08-12-2013, 05:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about!! An M3 with a VT1 and no other mods makes 550hp on 91octane(that's more then a GT-R) and 575hp on 94 octane, put test pipes on the M3 and it makes around 600hp, that's enough to beat a stock GT-R in a straight line! As for the VT2s, some member here run in the 10s@+132mph without any nitrous or octane mods, that's more then enough to humiliate any stock GT-Rs on any type of roll-on races!!
and the same mods to the GTR or 911t will produce much better results for the same mods as the m3. You get much more out of a tune or downpipe on a turbo car than a NA car
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      08-12-2013, 05:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by UnaBomber View Post
and the same mods to the GTR or 911t will produce much better results for the same mods as the m3. You get much more out of a tune or downpipe on a turbo car than a NA car
For sure but that's not really the point. The M3 needs to be modded to keep up - no one's doubting that. But assuming a person has say $100K to spend in total, what could that get you?

For that amount of $$$, you could get a new GTR, a used 911T, or you could have a new M3 with mods: an intercooled S/C, titanium exhaust, BBK, coils, tires for the same price (actually less).

The M3 will be fastest in a roll race. From a dead stop the M3 will be playing catch-up and perhaps it's all even by the end of the quarter mile. At the track who knows...the M3 has stepped it up with coils/brakes/tires but the stock GTR and 911T are formidable and which one is faster really depends on the particular track and driver competency. My guess is that for a novice, the GTR and 911T will be faster given the grip levels.

All three cars will be tons of fun.

Sure with unlimited $$$ you could make the 911T and GTR way faster. But that's not really what the OP was after.
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      08-12-2013, 05:25 PM   #54
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New GT-R will stomp an ESS M3, and do it will its full warranty intact. Not hating on ESS by any means, but a $25k motor is a pretty big risk if you lose a rod bearing. No amount of oil analysis is going to save you if it decides to give way unexpectedly or you have a money shift.
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Originally Posted by UnaBomber View Post
and the same mods to the GTR or 911t will produce much better results for the same mods as the m3. You get much more out of a tune or downpipe on a turbo car than a NA car
No doupt about that but my comment was regarding what he said about stock GTRs stomping ESS M3 ^^^^^^ , that is simply not true!
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      08-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
who is trapping 125 and running the quarter in 11.0 seconds flat in a 535 kit? that's pretty quick

http://wot.motortrend.com/gt-r-by-th...#axzz2bn5JQ3SC
DCT VT1 traps 125mph without any problems and the good 1/4 mile times that the GT-R does is more related to its AWD then its horsepower!!
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      08-12-2013, 05:49 PM   #56
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For sure but that's not really the point. The M3 needs to be modded to keep up - no one's doubting that. But assuming a person has say $100K to spend in total, what could that get you?

For that amount of $$$, you could get a new GTR, a used 911T, or you could have a new M3 with mods: an intercooled S/C, titanium exhaust, BBK, coils, tires for the same price (actually less).

The M3 will be fastest in a roll race. From a dead stop the M3 will be playing catch-up and perhaps it's all even by the end of the quarter mile. At the track who knows...the M3 has stepped it up with coils/brakes/tires but the stock GTR and 911T are formidable and which one is faster really depends on the particular track and driver competency. My guess is that for a novice, the GTR and 911T will be faster given the grip levels.

All three cars will be tons of fun.

Sure with unlimited $$$ you could make the 911T and GTR way faster. But that's not really what the OP was after.


Throwing modded vehicles into car buying equations is a mistake IMO.
You're presuming that the entry price is all you're going to fork out.
Modded vehicles by their very nature cost more because of warranty and depreciation issues.
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      08-12-2013, 05:59 PM   #57
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Depends on what the OP wants out of a weekend car. Do they want to go to the track, cruise or drive to the golf course. Although the 911 is an awesome car, I do not find it practical, no room for anything. I just sold my GTR and it had plenty of space in the trunk, backseat was too small but as one person mentioned, they hold their value. I purchased an 09 with 9000 miles for 65k and sold it 2 years later for 64k. M3 with a pile of mods would be a cool option but would much less cost effective. I say GTR, the car is an absolute animal.
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      08-12-2013, 06:04 PM   #58
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Quote:
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No doupt about that but my comment was regarding what he said about stock GTRs stomping ESS M3 ^^^^^^ , that is simply not true!
Yeah- based on numbers?

There are a lot of other considerations. And it's sad that most of these conversations are about numbers and speculation.

My SC'd M3 pulls on a stock GTR from a roll and on the freeway (not by much) but I guarantee that on a track I'd get destroyed. The GTR is AWD and makes power all over the RPM range. One or two CHEAP mods and the GTR will DESTROY a SC'd M3. Can send you video later if I could bring myself to make one.... (buddy has the modded GTR)

Anyway, it's all about personal preference. I would have bought a GTR and would rather drive a RWD car around the track any day. I'm one of the few people that don't put the GTR on a pedestal as the interior blows, the electronics, the stereo, etc. The transmissions are clunky...I'd prefer a car with a little more refinement. I'll give it props for being good at what it's good at..being really damn fast - especially at the track.
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      08-12-2013, 06:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
For sure but that's not really the point. The M3 needs to be modded to keep up - no one's doubting that. But assuming a person has say $100K to spend in total, what could that get you?

For that amount of $$$, you could get a new GTR, a used 911T, or you could have a new M3 with mods: an intercooled S/C, titanium exhaust, BBK, coils, tires for the same price (actually less).

The M3 will be fastest in a roll race. From a dead stop the M3 will be playing catch-up and perhaps it's all even by the end of the quarter mile. At the track who knows...the M3 has stepped it up with coils/brakes/tires but the stock GTR and 911T are formidable and which one is faster really depends on the particular track and driver competency. My guess is that for a novice, the GTR and 911T will be faster given the grip levels.

All three cars will be tons of fun.

Sure with unlimited $$$ you could make the 911T and GTR way faster. But that's not really what the OP was after.
The idea of a super modded M3 is definitely cool. In fact, I had thought about getting the ESS 625 kit when I still had my M3. But how durable is the motor going to be over the long run? Your warranty will be voided on the spot if you still have warranty. The motor obviously will not last nearly as long, and if something happens you have to pay $$$ to get the motor fixed or replaced. The engine in the 997.1 turbo is pretty much bulletproof; essentially the same block as the GT1 race car. The GTR motor is very stout as well. It is much better to stick with a car that comes stock FI such as the GTR or Turbo versus going FI in the M3. You have warranty on those cars, on the M3 you will not. Those cars have suspension, brakes, drive shafts, etc that were meant to take the abuse of 500+ hp and torque all day long. I'm not so sure about this matter in the M3. Plus in the end, much easier to sell a stock or relatively stock GTR or Turbo than an insanely modded M3. Much less headache.
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      08-12-2013, 06:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
For sure but that's not really the point. The M3 needs to be modded to keep up - no one's doubting that. But assuming a person has say $100K to spend in total, what could that get you?

For that amount of $$$, you could get a new GTR, a used 911T, or you could have a new M3 with mods: an intercooled S/C, titanium exhaust, BBK, coils, tires for the same price (actually less).

The M3 will be fastest in a roll race. From a dead stop the M3 will be playing catch-up and perhaps it's all even by the end of the quarter mile. At the track who knows...the M3 has stepped it up with coils/brakes/tires but the stock GTR and 911T are formidable and which one is faster really depends on the particular track and driver competency. My guess is that for a novice, the GTR and 911T will be faster given the grip levels.

All three cars will be tons of fun.

Sure with unlimited $$$ you could make the 911T and GTR way faster. But that's not really what the OP was after.


Throwing modded vehicles into car buying equations is a mistake IMO.
You're presuming that the entry price is all you're going to fork out.
Modded vehicles by their very nature cost more because of warranty and depreciation issues.
So what's your suggestion then, not buying the car he wants because it is modded or maybe creating a thread about his dilema so that people can give him advice about what to expect with supercharging an M3!!? :
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      08-12-2013, 06:39 PM   #61
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I would vote for gt3 rs 4.0.

The car is so special. That being said its a one trick pony - drive it hard on the weekends, take it to the track, just stare at it. Not many around.

The other choice would be m3 SC. I dont think its special as the first car i mentioned although its pretty damn special. More special than a 911T or a gtr that you see a lot of on the streets.

All four choices are great but they have to be driven hard to be enjoyed!
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      08-12-2013, 07:14 PM   #62
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I guess GTR, but it's too good for a weekend car! I'd want something that is amazing to look at and drive, but at the end of the drive on Sunday look at it and say, "Boy am I glad I don't have to drive that another five days."
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      08-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
Throwing modded vehicles into car buying equations is a mistake IMO.
You're presuming that the entry price is all you're going to fork out.
Modded vehicles by their very nature cost more because of warranty and depreciation issues.
I think we understand that which is why one would need to take that into account as well. I did this very thing before deciding upon the M3 which including determining future residual value of the mods (I purchased the S/C and exhaust before I even had the M3) and including installation/troubleshooting costs and factoring in having no warranty oh and course making sure the M3 was leased in the first place with it's already nice residual value
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      08-12-2013, 07:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by PunjabiM3 View Post
The idea of a super modded M3 is definitely cool. In fact, I had thought about getting the ESS 625 kit when I still had my M3. But how durable is the motor going to be over the long run? Your warranty will be voided on the spot if you still have warranty. The motor obviously will not last nearly as long, and if something happens you have to pay $$$ to get the motor fixed or replaced. The engine in the 997.1 turbo is pretty much bulletproof; essentially the same block as the GT1 race car. The GTR motor is very stout as well. It is much better to stick with a car that comes stock FI such as the GTR or Turbo versus going FI in the M3. You have warranty on those cars, on the M3 you will not. Those cars have suspension, brakes, drive shafts, etc that were meant to take the abuse of 500+ hp and torque all day long. I'm not so sure about this matter in the M3. Plus in the end, much easier to sell a stock or relatively stock GTR or Turbo than an insanely modded M3. Much less headache.
There are hundreds of ESS centrifugal S/C M3's out there. Yes boost is low. And so is torque. It makes a max of around 370 RWTQ between 6,500 and 8,500 RPM so it doesn't disrupt the platform. However 370 RWTQ at over 8,000 RPM means 550 to 600 RWHP So yeah, you add positive displacement blower on an M3 and you break stuff and get wheel spin, etc...but put an ESS centrifugal system on and you have a platform that can fully handle it and a product that makes it seems like it's from the factory to begin with. And what about removing the mods and selling them? That's what I'm doing when my lease comes due.
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      08-12-2013, 09:24 PM   #65
pjhz21c
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Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
For sure but that's not really the point. The M3 needs to be modded to keep up - no one's doubting that. But assuming a person has say $100K to spend in total, what could that get you?

For that amount of $$$, you could get a new GTR, a used 911T, or you could have a new M3 with mods: an intercooled S/C, titanium exhaust, BBK, coils, tires for the same price (actually less).

The M3 will be fastest in a roll race. From a dead stop the M3 will be playing catch-up and perhaps it's all even by the end of the quarter mile. At the track who knows...the M3 has stepped it up with coils/brakes/tires but the stock GTR and 911T are formidable and which one is faster really depends on the particular track and driver competency. My guess is that for a novice, the GTR and 911T will be faster given the grip levels.

All three cars will be tons of fun.

Sure with unlimited $$$ you could make the 911T and GTR way faster. But that's not really what the OP was after.

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      08-12-2013, 09:35 PM   #66
pjhz21c
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There are hundreds of ESS centrifugal S/C M3's out there. Yes boost is low. And so is torque. It makes a max of around 370 RWTQ between 6,500 and 8,500 RPM so it doesn't disrupt the platform. However 370 RWTQ at over 8,000 RPM means 550 to 600 RWHP So yeah, you add positive displacement blower on an M3 and you break stuff and get wheel spin, etc...but put an ESS centrifugal system on and you have a platform that can fully handle it and a product that makes it seems like it's from the factory to begin with. And what about removing the mods and selling them? That's what I'm doing when my lease comes due.

Just curious.. Wouldn't SC mod void the warranty on your leased M3 and cause problem when you turn in your vehicle at the lease end? (assuming your lease is less than 39 months..)
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