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      07-14-2013, 11:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
That's besides the point, do you think Michelin would agree to having everyone track their tires and having it replaced on their dime?
Obviously not.


You can afford brand new M's and AMG's but can't afford to buy the rubber for em?

Keep on ballin dude.
Hahahaha.
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      07-14-2013, 11:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Damn, my rear PSSes were done after about 9500 miles (insides worn down to the cords, rest of the tire would've been ok), and my fronts after 7500 (outsides worn down to the cords, rest of the tire would've been ok) -- but that includes about 6-8 track days per year. I got camber plates up front to hopefully even out the front wear a bit more, and while I don't think there's much I can do about the rear, ~10K miles seems about right from what I'm reading. But I'll probably end up buying a set of APEX EC-7 18x10 ET25 wheels for track duty, especially considering the E9x M3 with fold-down rear seats can swallow 4 tires with room to spare. First set of track tires will probably be the new AD08 R's once they're available in 265/35/18; I figure I've still got some learning before I step up to something like NT01s, plus I'm not sure I want to go quite that high in running costs yet.
Mine aren't worn to the cords for sure, but the rears don't look like they'll last until 15k miles either. Only street driven, but I do launch hard everyone now and again on Euro MDM. Regardless, they are wearing faster than I thought.

How do you make a claim on them anyway?
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      07-14-2013, 11:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by saeedg48 View Post
wheres the fraud in that. manufacture has nothing in writing stating a casual track day is forbidden. do your research before making assumptions


That's besides the point, do you think Michelin would agree to having everyone track their tires and having it replaced on their dime?
Obviously not.


You can afford brand new M's and AMG's but can't afford to buy the rubber for em?

Keep on ballin dude.
let me offer my perspective as an attorney.

if an item is not explicitly prohibited under a warranty, then there is no warranty fraud for having done that "item" and then invoking the warranty. in other words, if my warranty doesn't explicitly lay out things that I'm forbidden from doing, then I'm allowed to do them.

you talk about michelin's intent - that they didnt intend for people to use their warranty this way. but their intent is irrelevant. it's what's written that matters. michelin is a massive corporation that has more than enough legal resources to EXPLICITLY define the terms is their warranty - and what's prohibited under their warranty. if they fail to explicitly exclude something under warranty, then there's nothing unlawful about recouping on the warranty for doing that thing.

the premium you pay for a pilot super sport is part of why you're getting such a broadly worded warranty. part of what youre paying for is that extra coverage - much like we pay more money for insurance policies with broader coverage. saeedg48 paid a price and got a tire with a broad warranty. there's nothing inherently improper about invoking the terms of that broad warranty .

my two cents .
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      07-15-2013, 12:00 AM   #26
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Nearly every tire manufacturer that I'm aware of, will not honor a tire warranty if the tire was used in racing, or a "competitive track event". The OP either lied to the dealer, or the dealer ignored the obvious signs of track use.

I doubt there is a legal definition of "warranty fraud", meaning you likely will not be held liable for lying to the dealer about why your tires are destroyed. The tire manufacturer/dealer's recourse is to deny the warranty if they believe the customer violated the terms of the warranty. It'd then be up to the customer to sue.

IMO, most people in this thread that disapprove of the OP's actions are doing so based on general concepts of honesty, and the old saying that "..there is always one idiot ruins it for everyone else". More warranty claims will be passed onto future customers.

From Michelin:

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
Tires which become unserviceable due to:
– Road hazard injury (e.g., a cut, snag, bruise, impact damage or puncture);
– Incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance or improper repair;
– Misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation,
overinflation or other abuse;
– Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the
vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of
2/32nds of an inch or more across the tread on the same tire);
– Accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration or vandalism;
– Use in commercial applications for treadwear; by this warranty for 6
years;
– Flat spotting caused by improper storage or brakelock;
– The addition of liquid, solid or gaseous materials other than air, nitrogen or
carbon dioxide (for example, waterbase sealers or balancing substances);
– Cosmetic ozone or weather cracking;
– Use of MICHELIN® Self-Supporting Zero Pressure (ZP) tires without a
properly operating low air pressure warning system.
Tires branded “Blemished” or “BLEM” are not adjustable for appearance
conditions
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      07-15-2013, 12:38 AM   #27
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^
there actually is a legal definition of fraud, warranty fraud is just a species of that.

second, per your own post (where michelin lists the items not covered) there is no violation here.
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      07-15-2013, 07:57 AM   #28
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Great tires almost 25k miles for rears 285/35/18 another 5k miles for fronts 265/35/18 should be np. Getting rear tires sometimes this week. About 80% local and 20% highway driving.
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      07-15-2013, 10:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^
there actually is a legal definition of fraud, warranty fraud is just a species of that.

second, per your own post (where michelin lists the items not covered) there is no violation here.
You can attach the word "fraud" to nearly any cause of action, so in that sense, you're right.

Racing is not covered, per the copy of the Michelin tire warranty. The OP appears to have circumvented that without telling the dealer that racing was the cause of the extreme wear. The tire dealer could have legally denied the warranty claim. When you say there is "no violation here", I have no idea what you are basing that on, as it it clearly highlighted in red. If you're referring to "fraud", that would be up to a court to determine.
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      07-15-2013, 11:32 AM   #30
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I'm surprised they don't deny due to camber issues as follows:

– Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the
vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of
2/32nds of an inch or more across the tread on the same tire);
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      07-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
Nearly every tire manufacturer that I'm aware of, will not honor a tire warranty if the tire was used in racing, or a "competitive track event". The OP either lied to the dealer, or the dealer ignored the obvious signs of track use.

I doubt there is a legal definition of "warranty fraud", meaning you likely will not be held liable for lying to the dealer about why your tires are destroyed. The tire manufacturer/dealer's recourse is to deny the warranty if they believe the customer violated the terms of the warranty. It'd then be up to the customer to sue.

IMO, most people in this thread that disapprove of the OP's actions are doing so based on general concepts of honesty, and the old saying that "..there is always one idiot ruins it for everyone else". More warranty claims will be passed onto future customers.

From Michelin:

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
Tires which become unserviceable due to:
– Road hazard injury (e.g., a cut, snag, bruise, impact damage or puncture);
– Incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance or improper repair;
– Misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation,
overinflation or other abuse;
– Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the
vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of
2/32nds of an inch or more across the tread on the same tire);
– Accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration or vandalism;
– Use in commercial applications for treadwear; by this warranty for 6
years;
– Flat spotting caused by improper storage or brakelock;
– The addition of liquid, solid or gaseous materials other than air, nitrogen or
carbon dioxide (for example, waterbase sealers or balancing substances);
– Cosmetic ozone or weather cracking;
– Use of MICHELIN® Self-Supporting Zero Pressure (ZP) tires without a
properly operating low air pressure warning system.
Tires branded “Blemished” or “BLEM” are not adjustable for appearance
conditions
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
You can attach the word "fraud" to nearly any cause of action, so in that sense, you're right.

Racing is not covered, per the copy of the Michelin tire warranty. The OP appears to have circumvented that without telling the dealer that racing was the cause of the extreme wear. The tire dealer could have legally denied the warranty claim. When you say there is "no violation here", I have no idea what you are basing that on, as it it clearly highlighted in red. If you're referring to "fraud", that would be up to a court to determine.
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      07-20-2013, 11:42 AM   #32
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Some useful information about how OP went about claiming this warranty would be more helpful than a debate on how to scam the system.
I would like to know how to get this warranty in the first place, I got a pretty sick deal from a seller in the states for a set pre-mounted & balanced. How would one go about claiming this warranty? Is it only through specific authorized resellers or what?
I assume some sort of invoice including mileage when tires mounted & current ODO reading would be required?
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      07-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saeedg48 View Post
Hello fellow forum members,

I come at you on a sunny saturday with a positive review of my michelin pilot super sports.

I'll talk about the performance of this tire briefly; it's a great street tire with loads of grip, and awesome hook from a stop to wide open throttle.
Never had traction issues on my M3. This set of 295s shown below were mounted on my CLS, rarely had issuing hooking up with 600 wheel torque (tuned)

Wouldn't recommend them for moderate to heavy track-driving.

So here's where I am really impressed. The tire comes with a 30,000 mile guaranty.

If you come short of your miles they'll refund you a credit on a new set of tires.
In my case a 71.60 % prorated credit

I've not had the same experience with my SS on the '08 M3. They haven't lasted 10K miles so I'll have to check out this guarantee. I liked the several sets of PS2's better, but fell for the PR on the SS's. Now, I need new tires (on the rear) and I'm looking for other options. There are recommendations for Continental and yokohama on the general M3 forum where I posted the question. Anyone here have recommendations? I'm not getting the SS's again (unless they send me a free rear pair)
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      07-23-2013, 06:54 PM   #34
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OP didn't RACE on these tires. He used them in a non-competition event. As was pointed out, Michelin has worded their warranty very generally, and likely not for lack of trying. They obviously recognize that they will replace some sets that have seen track time and/or hard driving. I mean come on, that's the purpose of this tire! '

At that point, you guys are just debating the principal of the matter. If that's the case, you better not be out there doing hard launches and canyon runs because that's not "fair" to Michelin. You can't do ANYTHING that "prematurely" wears your tires down and reap the benefits of the warranty. In fact, these tires shouldn't be used on cars with more than 300 HP (Camry V6 and below) because that wears them out too soon...you see how this goes...

That's why Michelin did what they did and I commend them for it. Instead of drafting a warranty with infinite loopholes that they can weasel out of, they have brought enthusiasts a great performance tire we can be confident in at a good price that can be driven hard and still last last, and if it doesn't, it's on them. Bravo Michelin, bravo!
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      07-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #35
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I know this has been asked many times but the answers seem so varied, I'd like to get some clarification. I have a 2011 M3 Coupe with the Comp package and the 359 style wheels. I'm getting new Michelin Pilot Super Sports and wanted to get clarification if the 255/275 wheels will work without rubbing or spacers over the stock 245/265 tires. Also is there any issue with only replacing the rears to 275s and leaving the stock 245 fronts until they are a little closer to minimum tread depth? Thanks for any replies.
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      07-24-2013, 02:37 PM   #36
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Time to change "racing events" to "driver training skills events" for all the track clubs / track days out there!
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      07-29-2013, 05:17 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
OP didn't RACE on these tires. He used them in a non-competition event. As was pointed out, Michelin has worded their warranty very generally, and likely not for lack of trying. They obviously recognize that they will replace some sets that have seen track time and/or hard driving. I mean come on, that's the purpose of this tire! '

At that point, you guys are just debating the principal of the matter. If that's the case, you better not be out there doing hard launches and canyon runs because that's not "fair" to Michelin. You can't do ANYTHING that "prematurely" wears your tires down and reap the benefits of the warranty. In fact, these tires shouldn't be used on cars with more than 300 HP (Camry V6 and below) because that wears them out too soon...you see how this goes...

That's why Michelin did what they did and I commend them for it. Instead of drafting a warranty with infinite loopholes that they can weasel out of, they have brought enthusiasts a great performance tire we can be confident in at a good price that can be driven hard and still last last, and if it doesn't, it's on them. Bravo Michelin, bravo!
Wow finally a guy that gets it. Since when was HPDE considered racing? The OP was not entered into a timed competition. Sports tires are made for spirited driving including open track events. This may come as a shock to those who only freeway drive their sports cars.
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