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      07-16-2013, 06:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
On the track:

911 > M3 > C63

Straights:

C63 > 911 > M3... although the M3 and 911 will most likely be tied.

Bang for your buck:

M3 > C63 > 911

In the end the 911 and the M3 are very close rivals, and the C63 is kinda a different animal all together.
You are wrong, the ring time of c63 is faster then the m3. Many m3 owners are mistaken
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      07-16-2013, 02:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I'm sure you are kidding. You are telling me that the C63 is better on the track based on some numbers for one track driven by a pro?

C'mom, that is ridiculous. The C63 is an awesome car, but it is not a great track car. Do you know how many times I see them on the track? Never.
Regular C63 (not a black series) with a nurburgring time of 8:01. M3 got 8:05. I've seen C63s on the track
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      07-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by FVM3 View Post
Regular C63 (not a black series) with a nurburgring time of 8:01. M3 got 8:05. I've seen C63s on the track
Yep but take those cars off the hand of the pro driver, put them in the hand of an average driver and the M3 will easily be in front because it's a lot easier to go fast around a track in it, which in the book of most people means it's a better track car!
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      07-16-2013, 03:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by FVM3 View Post
Regular C63 (not a black series) with a nurburgring time of 8:01. M3 got 8:05. I've seen C63s on the track
Yep but take those cars off the hand of the pro driver, put them in the hand of an average driver and the M3 will easily be in front because it's a lot easier to go fast around a track in it, which in the book of most people means it's a better track car!
Agreed and with Philip on the only ever seeing 1 C63 in 4 years of tracking and that's fairly all over the country too. Anybody who actually tracks knows the difference between a merc & a BMW. The merc is NOT at home on the track, but probably more at home on the highway...oh, and how many 9 mile road courses do you know of in the US and do you know how little 4 seconds would be amongst amateur drivers over an 8 minute lap? Also, the ring, rewards high HP over almost anything else, and that's where the C63 really shines on the M. I mean the CTS-V beats em both, but wouldn't really think of that as a "track car"...
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      07-16-2013, 04:45 PM   #27
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I love my 991s and to be honest after owning 2 e92 m3's I really don't think that it touches the Porsche.

I just went to the track recently and could not believe how well behaved this car was and the brakes are just leaps and bounds better than what comes on the M3. The 991s really shined on the road course as well as the drag strip. Bone stock the car went 11.7@119.5 my M3 would have been far behind and even further behind if it were a longer distance.

The reason for the switch was I just had to have a 911 at least once. The performance from the car so far has been phenomenal.

As far as a C63 I have no experience with them and really just kinda turned off by them back when they first came out but the coupe does look great along with that sound!!
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      07-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Yes, but you are taking one track time from a pro driver to counter my argument that the 911 and M3 are better track cars. Do you realize how ridiculous your counter point is?

Of course somebody can drive the C63 fast (and well on the track), but in general the 911 and the M3 are better cars for the track.
I heard the CLS 63 ran a faster ring time than the M3, therefore the CLS is a far better track car.
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      07-16-2013, 06:53 PM   #29
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I heard the CLS 63 ran a faster ring time than the M3, therefore the CLS is a far better track car.
The +2012 CLS63 AMG's are beasts, and they look better than anything below $200k. AMG's are amazing cars, but I'd prefer the M3 on the track simply because it'd be cheaper to run, think oil consumption and tires. AMG's drink oil like no other and the rear tires need replacing every 10k miles if you drive "moderately."
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      07-16-2013, 09:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Yes, but you are taking one track time from a pro driver to counter my argument that the 911 and M3 are better track cars. Do you realize how ridiculous your counter point is?

Of course somebody can drive the C63 fast (and well on the track), but in general the 911 and the M3 are better cars for the track.
I admit that m3 is better track car. I've owned c63 and e92/e93 m3. I didnt like the c63 as much as the m3 but I just cant get why some say that c63 will be smoked on the track by m3 all day long. Drivers who do the ring time, with similar level of skills. I believe that with the same driver by pushing both cars to the limit, C63 will still have a faster lap time.
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      07-16-2013, 11:36 PM   #31
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The last time I've been to Nurburgring was Oct 2012. Spent 7 days there.

Not a single Touristenfahrten have I seen a C63.

5 in 10 cars were GT3s. M3s are like Honda Civics in Japan. They are everywhere !

You see Atoms, BAC mono, Subaru BRZ, Ultima GTR but no C63.

The only Mercedes I saw was the SLS blackseries in camo and that was during an industry day testing.

It crashed and was burned to bits a day before I took a rental M3 out for the first time.

I have seen youtube videos of C63s being quicker than E9X M3s.

With money, semi slicks, a little seat time, a car can always be faster.
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      07-17-2013, 10:55 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
So what was your argument then?

I wrote this in regards to tracking: 911 > M3 > C63

And you quoted that and added this comment to my post:

"You are wrong, the ring time of c63 is faster then the m3. Many m3 owners are mistaken"

Was that comment just for shits and giggles?
Because some calm that m3 will smoke the c63 on the track. Just like they cant accept the fact that c63 is faster both straight line and on the track then the m3.

Last edited by FVM3; 07-17-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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      07-18-2013, 08:03 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I'm not sure if you read or remember your previous posts... you mentioned earlier that the M3 is the better track car, and now you are saying again that the C63 is faster on the track than the M3. At least be consistently wrong.

Of course at any given day some C63 might beat the M3 on a particular track with a skilled driver, but the fact is that in general the M3 is the better car for the track.

Nobody is knocking the C63 - it is an awesome car, but not the friendliest track car for the average track rat. And many other cars are better track cars than the M3.
Yes, its better but not faster.M3 is easier to drive to the limit but with the same driver behind the wheel, I believe somehow the c63 will have a faster lap time. Have been reading couple of posts and some calm m3 will smoke the c63 all day long and I think thats not possible at all
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      07-18-2013, 09:00 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
Quote:
Originally Posted by FVM3 View Post
Yes, its better but not faster.M3 is easier to drive to the limit but with the same driver behind the wheel, I believe somehow the c63 will have a faster lap time. Have been reading couple of posts and some calm m3 will smoke the c63 all day long and I think thats not possible at all
This post makes no sense at all.
I think it makes sense, the better track car is the car that most people will go the fastest and have the most fun on the track with, in this case the M3! The fastest car is the one that will make the best lap time when driven to it's absolute best, in this case the C63! Just my .02$!
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      07-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
I think it makes sense, the better track car is the car that most people will go the fastest and have the most fun on the track with, in this case the M3! The fastest car is the one that will make the best lap time when driven to it's absolute best, in this case the C63! Just my .02$!
agreed. however, the C63 is not faster than the M3 on all tracks.

also, the Ring is a great measuring stick, and perhaps the C63 does hold a faster time on it currently, but I tend to take track times on that particular track with a grain of salt. unless you had the same driver on the same day and a closed course, I don't find times there to be perfectly comparable. that said, I don't dismiss that the C63 would likely have a faster lap time on the Ring due to its long straights (where the C63 undeniably outshines the M3).

just my opinion. anyways, back to the dick measuring...
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      07-18-2013, 01:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
I think it makes sense, the better track car is the car that most people will go the fastest and have the most fun on the track with, in this case the M3! The fastest car is the one that will make the best lap time when driven to it's absolute best, in this case the C63! Just my .02$!
yes, better doesnt mean faster. M3 doesnt have too much low end torque which makes it much easier to control in the corners
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      07-18-2013, 01:52 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by FVM3 View Post
yes, better doesnt mean faster. M3 doesnt have too much low end torque which makes it much easier to control in the corners
That, but also, it's lighter, better balanced, has wider tires, all this compensate for the lack of straight line speed and contribute to make it easier and more fun in the corners!
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      07-18-2013, 02:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
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That, but also, it's lighter, better balanced, has wider tires, all this compensate for the lack of straight line speed and contribute to make it easier and more fun in the corners!
Thats true. Way more fun to drive the m3 then the c63. Faster doesnt mean more fun to drive.
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      07-19-2013, 12:10 PM   #39
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On the track 911 will make a mockery of the other two with all cars being driven at their best.

In a straight - 911 and c63 are going to be much faster than the m3. M3 traps about 112-113 on average stock, the 911 avg trap is about 118-119 which is substantially faster than the m3, even a 997.2 pdk pulls hard on a dct m3, and the c63 traps about what the 911 does.

Even more over, one member here did 119 mph on a car that I don't even believe was broken in yet and many trapping 117. I have seen most stock m3s around 109-110 by actual drivers and haven't seen any actual newer model c63 times.

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      08-05-2013, 08:56 PM   #40
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I love my 991s and to be honest after owning 2 e92 m3's I really don't think that it touches the Porsche.

I just went to the track recently and could not believe how well behaved this car was and the brakes are just leaps and bounds better than what comes on the M3. The 991s really shined on the road course as well as the drag strip. Bone stock the car went 11.7@119.5 my M3 would have been far behind and even further behind if it were a longer distance.

The reason for the switch was I just had to have a 911 at least once. The performance from the car so far has been phenomenal.

As far as a C63 I have no experience with them and really just kinda turned off by them back when they first came out but the coupe does look great along with that sound!!
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That is the biggest factor in my opinion. The 911 has been my dream car since I was 5 years old, so it never was a question if I should get one, only when I will get one.

But.... if you look at it with rationally, no emotions and heart attached, which obviously is nearly impossible since car guys can't do this, the M3 is so close in performance that it is simply the best deal around.

I built my M3 for $65K - total stripper, and my 991C2S was $120K - that is almost double, and in my rational opinion it isn't worth double the price - it simply isn't.

For me, I had to have the 911, it could have been slower, and no options and I still would have bought it to fulfill my dream, and I couldn't be happier. I adore everything about this car. But if you are not a hardcore 911 fan it simply doesn't make sense to pay that much of a premium.
I love reading posts like these out loud to my wife and watching her roll her eyes. I am sitting here watching the Bachelorette and shopping my face off for my beloved 911. I have had three vehicle loves in my life: Audi S4, BMW M3, and the unconquered 911. My only fear is that I will feel complete and end up driving a Camry for the rest of my life after this acquisition. I keep telling myself to get a 911 C2S then I still have the Turbo or GT3 to hope for later in life. We'll see. The S4 lease is up on January 31st, 2015, but who's counting the days. By the way, I have no intention of getting rid of the M3.
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      08-30-2013, 02:43 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FVM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I'm sure you are kidding. You are telling me that the C63 is better on the track based on some numbers for one track driven by a pro?

C'mom, that is ridiculous. The C63 is an awesome car, but it is not a great track car. Do you know how many times I see them on the track? Never.
Regular C63 (not a black series) with a nurburgring time of 8:01. M3 got 8:05. I've seen C63s on the track
Care to cite your info? I highly doubt the c63 is faster than the M3 on the nurburgring when it's not faster around a shorter track in the two videos I posted in this thread.
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      08-31-2013, 07:05 AM   #42
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Care to cite your info? I highly doubt the c63 is faster than the M3 on the nurburgring when it's not faster around a shorter track in the two videos I posted in this thread.
Although it's a black series article it does reference the coupe ring time. Pre 2012 C63's(8:13) are slower around the ring while 2012+ are faster(8:01). AMG did some good work on making the car handle better. I went from a 2010 to a 12 and there's a pretty big difference.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/20/m...ap-on-the-rin/
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      09-01-2013, 04:50 AM   #43
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Interesting- I wonder how the ZCP M3 with stack against that, since the original 8:05 time was with an M3 with standard suspension.
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      09-01-2013, 11:59 AM   #44
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Care to cite your info? I highly doubt the c63 is faster than the M3 on the nurburgring when it's not faster around a shorter track in the two videos I posted in this thread.
Go here for 'Ring results.

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