BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-11-2013, 05:16 PM   #1
greenmoldy
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 e93 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 115
iTrader: (0)

M3 vs C63 vs 911 carrera s

I'm aware straight line the m3 is the slowest, but track wise how would these three hold up against eachother. Does anyone know what's faster straight line, the 63 or the 911?
greenmoldy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2013, 08:27 PM   #2
Alex07M3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gatineau

Posts: 1,892
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 e92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
On the track:

911 > M3 > C63

Straights:

C63 > 911 > M3... although the M3 and 911 will most likely be tied.

Bang for your buck:

M3 > C63 > 911

In the end the 911 and the M3 are very close rivals, and the C63 is kinda a different animal all together.
Straight line I would say 911>C63>M3, if we're speaking of the 991 model!
__________________
ESS VT1, M Performance exhaust, Turner test pipes, Eibach, Michelin PSS 255/295
Alex07M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #3
greenmoldy
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 e93 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 115
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
On the track:

911 > M3 > C63

Straights:

C63 > 911 > M3... although the M3 and 911 will most likely be tied.

Bang for your buck:

M3 > C63 > 911

In the end the 911 and the M3 are very close rivals, and the C63 is kinda a different animal all together.
Straight line I would say 911>C63>M3, if we're speaking of the 991 model!
Strictly speaking of a 2013 911 carrera S
greenmoldy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2013, 09:15 PM   #4
F1Venom
Captain
 
Drives: ZCP E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 738
iTrader: (0)

Yeah, the 991S is the fastest and sexiest of the bunch. I love what Porsche has done with it, but the way I've built it is twice the price of a fully loaded E92.
F1Venom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 08:24 AM   #5
KennyPowers
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .....
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Coast

Posts: 3,963
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
On the track:

911 > M3 > C63

Straights:

C63 > 911 > M3... although the M3 and 911 will most likely be tied.

Bang for your buck:

M3 > C63 > 911

In the end the 911 and the M3 are very close rivals, and the C63 is kinda a different animal all together.
i realize you own a 991 s, but from all the tests ive seen the 991 would smoke the m3 in a straight line and on the track.

it makes the same power and is 500+ lbs lighter, plus has much more traction than an m3.

the c63 will likely be the quickest or tied with the Porsche with the bmw lagging behind both. id imagine an m3 would be very close with the benz on most tracks if talking about the new refreshed c63.
KennyPowers is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 08:40 AM   #6
KennyPowers
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .....
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Coast

Posts: 3,963
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Yup, that's why I put the 911 ahead of the M3 and C63, but since the 911 and the M3 are close in their 0-60 times, you'll probably have some races with the M3 winning. Both are around 4 seconds across the board in magazine testing, but the M3 and the 991 have sometimes times slightly below 4 seconds (3.9), so I think it can be very close at times.
the trap speed of the carerra is quite a bit higher than the m3.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...ed-manual.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

these times show a 3mph trap speed advantage for the c2s over m3, and Edmunds times always are really slow and suck.

these tests are both with the auto transmissions for both cars since those post the fastest times.
KennyPowers is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 10:44 AM   #7
Alex07M3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gatineau

Posts: 1,892
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 e92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Will be still tough I think, the C63 is a monster, but a PDK version might be able to do that.
Judging by the 11.7@119mph that an other M3post member achieve with his stock 991s PDK, I pretty sure a C63 would easily get owned, and less easily with the performance pack!

A good friend of mine often comes with me at the drag strip with his stock C63 and has never been able to do better then 12.3@114mph, and that's after at least 70-80 pass on many differents days! Also my VT1-535 with stock cats trapped between 115-118mph depending on the conditions(my best was 119mph, only once) and I never had any problem passing him, even on the warmest day. The only place he was faster then me was on the launch because of its auto tranny and monstruous torque but that's where the 911 shines so there should be no problem!

A manual 991S is probably a bit slower on the 1/4 mile but maybe you could tell us what it does!
__________________
ESS VT1, M Performance exhaust, Turner test pipes, Eibach, Michelin PSS 255/295
Alex07M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #8
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,883
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I'm aware of that, my response is to the OP's general question which probably assumes he and other peers are driving the car under daily conditions. Not the track, not a drag strip, but the occasional highway or back road pull. And I can guarantee you that the ("real world") results will be mixed.

I don't doubt that the 991S is the faster car, but the M3 is so damn close that it will be ahead once in a while.
There's no question that car to car manufacturing variations, plus driver to driver skill variations can make for interesting results from time to time, but I used to have a poster on my office wall that said, amongst other things:

THE RACE MAY NOT ALWAYS GO THE SWIFT, NOR THE BATTLE TO THE STRONG.

BUT THAT'S THE WAY TO BET.

For my money, the 991S will just eke out a win over the performance-packaged C63 in a standing start quarter mile, and both will pretty much crush the M3 in that endeavor. The C63 will be running the Porsche down at that point, but the rear-biased weight distribution plus launch control with PDK will ju-ust be able to eke out the win for the 991S over the Merc - maybe seven times out of ten contests with differing examples of the breeds.

Out on the open road, the current C63 power pack will rule over the Porsche and bimmer.

Bruce
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 06:08 PM   #9
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

Posts: 1,942
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
There's no question that car to car manufacturing variations, plus driver to driver skill variations can make for interesting results from time to time, but I used to have a poster on my office wall that said, amongst other things:

THE RACE MAY NOT ALWAYS GO THE SWIFT, NOR THE BATTLE TO THE STRONG.

BUT THAT'S THE WAY TO BET.

For my money, the 991S will just eke out a win over the performance-packaged C63 in a standing start quarter mile, and both will pretty much crush the M3 in that endeavor. The C63 will be running the Porsche down at that point, but the rear-biased weight distribution plus launch control with PDK will ju-ust be able to eke out the win for the 991S over the Merc - maybe seven times out of ten contests with differing examples of the breeds.

Out on the open road, the current C63 power pack will rule over the Porsche and bimmer.

Bruce
maybe.... that is until you add a corner.
devo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 08:38 PM   #10
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,883
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
maybe.... that is until you add a corner.
Adding corners, Porsche rules. Tight corners, M3 beats up on Merc. Fast track (like the 'Ring), Merc beats up on bimmer. Also on typical U.S. highway curves (if you're crazy).

Most tracks in the U.S., M3 still beats Merc. Both lose to the Porsche.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 07-12-2013 at 08:45 PM.
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2013, 08:54 PM   #11
gblansten
Beandoc
 
gblansten's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 BMW M5 SG/SS
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

Posts: 2,123
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Adding corners, Porsche rules. Tight corners, M3 beats up on Merc. Fast track (like the 'Ring), Merc beats up on bimmer. Also on typical U.S. highway curves (if you're crazy).

Most tracks in the U.S., M3 still beats Merc. Both lose to the Porsche.

Bruce
this
gblansten is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2013, 11:45 AM   #12
greenmoldy
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 e93 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 115
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Adding corners, Porsche rules. Tight corners, M3 beats up on Merc. Fast track (like the 'Ring), Merc beats up on bimmer. Also on typical U.S. highway curves (if you're crazy).

Most tracks in the U.S., M3 still beats Merc. Both lose to the Porsche.

Bruce
this
Well I know I'm the one to ask the question, but I have driven all three cars and to be honest a performance package coupe 63 doesn't feel faster than my 911 CS at all let alone that much faster than my M3 also .
greenmoldy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2013, 11:57 AM   #13
saeedg48
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 12 CLS63 + 14 M6 C
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Unknown

Posts: 3,499
iTrader: (1)

the carrera will destroy all of these cars. end story
__________________


2008 M3 Sedan + TestPipes + Tune [sold]

2012 CLS63 AMG + P30 Performance Package
2014 M6 Coupe + AMS Downpipes + KW V3
saeedg48 is offline   Iran
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #14
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,883
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoldy View Post
Well I know I'm the one to ask the question, but I have driven all three cars and to be honest a performance package coupe 63 doesn't feel faster than my 911 CS at all let alone that much faster than my M3 also .
As long as the Merc you drove had the later transmission with wet clutch, trust me, it's quite a bit quicker out on the highway. These cars will hit between 118 and 122 mph at the drag strip, which is safely faster than the Porsche, and a bunch faster than the bimmer. The wet clutch is worth 3-4 mph over the older version with torque converter.

Bruce
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2013, 03:03 PM   #15
F1Venom
Captain
 
Drives: ZCP E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 738
iTrader: (0)

For straight line excitement, AMG's cannot be beat though. They sound amazing too.
F1Venom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #16
Rev ///Me
My V8 Brings All the Boys to the Yard.
 
Drives: Something
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere

Posts: 1,057
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Venom View Post
For straight line excitement, AMG's cannot be beat though. They sound amazing too.
You can change the noise coming from the back of the M3 and make it sound just as good.
Rev ///Me is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-14-2013, 05:34 AM   #17
surewin
///M3mber
 
surewin's Avatar
 
Drives: AW '08 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern CA

Posts: 208
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW E92 M3  [5.00]




Great videos of Top Gear and 5th gear comparing the M3 and the C63.
__________________

Alpine White | Carbon Fiber Roof | 6-Speed | Inconel M Exhaust
surewin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-14-2013, 06:25 AM   #18
LarThaL
Colonel
 
LarThaL's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

Posts: 2,532
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Venom View Post
Yeah, the 991S is the fastest and sexiest of the bunch. I love what Porsche has done with it, but the way I've built it is twice the price of a fully loaded E92.
And that's the kicker. I spec'd out a 991S to about $130k. My M3 was $75k (MSRP). Is the Porsche $55k better? Not sure.

I also spec'd out a Cayman S for $90k. It may be a tad slower than the M3 in straight line (if at all), but dynamically, it is superior to almost any other car on the road, regardless of price.

If I added in ceramic brakes, the Cayman is $97k and the Carrera is $138k.

The real question is not between M3, C63, or 991S. The real question becomes whether or not the straight line advantage of the Carrera is worth $40k more than the Cayman, which, other than pure power is better than all the other cars, and IMO, better looking as well.
__________________
Precision tool: 2011 BMW ///M3
Sledgehammer: 2014 Audi S6

LarThaL is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-14-2013, 09:33 AM   #19
stylinexpat
Captain
 
stylinexpat's Avatar
 
Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2008

Posts: 806
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
That is the biggest factor in my opinion. The 911 has been my dream car since I was 5 years old, so it never was a question if I should get one, only when I will get one.

But.... if you look at it with rationally, no emotions and heart attached, which obviously is nearly impossible since car guys can't do this, the M3 is so close in performance that it is simply the best deal around.

I built my M3 for $65K - total stripper, and my 991C2S was $120K - that is almost double, and in my rational opinion it isn't worth double the price - it simply isn't.

For me, I had to have the 911, it could have been slower, and no options and I still would have bought it to fulfill my dream, and I couldn't be happier. I adore everything about this car. But if you are not a hardcore 911 fan it simply doesn't make sense to pay that much of a premium.

My dream car as well and I have always wanted one but one thing I always tell myself is that it really is not worth double the money. One surely does not get twice the performance out of it. It does though get better fuel economy. One makes that up though with the price of oil changes and maintenance that they have to pay for on their own compared to a BMW where you get free maintenance for 4 years or 50,000 miles.
stylinexpat is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-15-2013, 03:44 AM   #20
greenmoldy
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 e93 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 115
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoldy View Post
Well I know I'm the one to ask the question, but I have driven all three cars and to be honest a performance package coupe 63 doesn't feel faster than my 911 CS at all let alone that much faster than my M3 also .
As long as the Merc you drove had the later transmission with wet clutch, trust me, it's quite a bit quicker out on the highway. These cars will hit between 118 and 122 mph at the drag strip, which is safely faster than the Porsche, and a bunch faster than the bimmer. The wet clutch is worth 3-4 mph over the older version with torque converter.

Bruce
I test drove a 2013 I was about to lease. It really didnt seem like it would hit 118 on the quarter mile
greenmoldy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-15-2013, 11:10 AM   #21
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,883
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoldy View Post
I test drove a 2013 I was about to lease. It really didnt seem like it would hit 118 on the quarter mile
...and perhaps it wouldn't. Slowest road test I've seen (Edmunds) showed 116 and change, apparently not weather-corrected to standard day conditions. Fastest road test was C & D 120mph, corrected.

However, I have personally seen a pair of current C63s do 122 and just under 121, respectively at our local (Maple grove, PA) drag strip. Admittedly, this was under very good conditions (density altitude less than 200 feet) with warm sun, cool air and high barometer. Maple Grove is also a very good, high-traction facility, holding several NHRA records for speed and ET in the pro ranks.

Still, both cars had dealer plates, leading me to believe they weren't even broken in - although I can't testify to that.

In any event, your seat-of-the-pants evaluation is still valuable, because it's how the car makes you feel when driving it, as opposed to numbers.

Bruce

PS - The 122 car went a best (that I saw) of 11.88, and the other went 12.02. Have to say I was mightily impressed, especially from the perspective of a lowly Subaru, which went 13.704 @ 99.30, with a minor starting line bog.
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2013, 04:54 AM   #22
Dartanium
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 09 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CA

Posts: 558
iTrader: (0)

current m156 MCT c63 is very different than previous 7speed automatic version, one large problem is engine oil cooling with with c63, especially mct variants, not sure if the tranny shares part of the engine oil cooler or whatnot but oil temp gets up to 130C(266F) on spirited street driving, instant torque is a very big selling point. Shifts has been very crisp compared to older gen C63, every shift is about quarter length of a car if you do a drag race, downshifts are smoother too. If you find a MCT c63 and solve cooling problems, I believe it will work on the track. I have a 7speed c63, I bought a m3 for the track, so that's my take on both cars.

C63 is going to be a very fun street car with long tubes and a tune, those tiny 255 rear tires is definitely limiting factor, so far I only had success fitting a 275/35/18 without major rubbing. If you find a way(fender work) to stuff a 305 or larger tire in the rear will yield bigger smiles per mile, if you are aggressive enough, a supercharge is just phone call away.

I shared my thoughts on Porsches here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=41
Dartanium is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:01 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST