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      06-26-2013, 12:49 AM   #23
williamf
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If BMW was performing background checks only on black people, then they are stupid. BMW is a lot of things, but it is not stupid. No way in a million years was anyone with any real authority authorizing this kind of discrimination. As with many things, I believe this story is just taking on a life of its own and yes the Obama administration is doing what all political agents do... advocate a position to further some ulterior motive.

Having said that, the issue here is one of INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS vs GROUP RIGHTS. This is actually a very complicated issue and one that will have a different answer depending on some of your fundamental beliefs, which have NOTHING to do with race.

Here is the question? Do you believe the individual has the right to discriminate against a group? In this case the individual happens to be a corporation and the group happens to be blacks (feel free it insert whatever hot button individual or group into the above).

I recognize that reasonable minds may disagree about what I am about to say. I don't think you have to be a racist to believe that a company or individual has the RIGHT to discriminate against other groups. Lets face it, we all discriminate every day. We discriminate when we choose who to go to lunch with, what gas station to fill up at, which stores to shop at and what car to buy. For the most part no one has an issue with this type of discrimination. This kind of discrimination can be called something else: Liberty (think "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.")

However, when it comes to race many of us think this should be off limits. As far as I am concerned, you have the right to think racial discrimination is wrong and I agree 100%. However, I will defend the right of the racist to have his racist belief. Furthermore, if that racist happens to be an employer, I will generally defend his right to choose who he/she employees. The government and society generally agree with this and small businesses are allowed to employ or not employ just about anyone for any reason.

When it comes to big business, there are definitely laws that say certain types of discrimination are off limits. This was certainly a good thing back in the 1950's, but not today. But make no mistake these laws do water down the "liberty" that this nation is founded on. We have socially evolved and no longer need discrimination laws to force us to do what is right (remember forcing someone is the opposite of liberty).

It would be business suicide to discriminate based on race. Most people today would boycott a company that was openly racist. So the market will eliminate the behaviors that we dislike. The government does not need to step on individual rights to do it.

In today's world discrimination is used to bully employers into doing things that they should not do. The employer has rights just as much as the employees do. It is not okay to take the employers rights away anymore than it is to make a black person drink out of a different water fountain. The vast majority of employers just want good works, race, ethnicity, gender and several other factors just don't matter to employers. BUT as soon as someone is fired they call the EEOC and make up BS stories about why they were fired. Oh no it was not because that person was breaking rules, stealing things, or just plain lazy. No they picks some "class" that they belong to and claim that this is the real reason. Well here is a question, if your employer is such a racist or sexist, why did they hire you in the first place? Did you hide your race or gender from them during the hiring process and then all of a sudden it dawn on them that your skin color and gender is different than theirs? Please!!

I want Obama and all the rest of them out of my life except for the bare essentials. The rest of us are all adults and we can take care of ourselves. Someone prove to me that BMW is really discriminating against blacks and I promise you the society will impose a huge penalty on their bottom line.
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      06-26-2013, 01:37 AM   #24
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WHAT? Obama is black? Damn my color blindness is more serious than I thought.
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      06-26-2013, 03:09 AM   #25
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Okay Jedi (ME) is black...from what I read they used these backround checks to fire or not promote people who had initially passed backround checks, now if you have a guy who's a car thief(ISSA) of course you don't hire them or promote, but we are talking about people for speeding tickets and things like that..now if it's shown you had other people with similar problems and they didn't get let go..BIMMER you have a problem...
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      06-26-2013, 03:54 AM   #26
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must be great to be black in Japan.
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      06-26-2013, 07:57 AM   #27
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This should go to political forum, not here.

This is not OBAMA checking shit, this is the administration doing its job, as expected of it. The same would have happened under any administration, since 1964, it is the law. If you want to go back to segregation time, make a time machine.

I do not know the specific of the case, but if BMW is indeed doing different background check for white and black people, they deserve what happens.

Only a moron or somebody with an agenda would start a thread by titling it OBAMA did blah. GTFO.
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      06-26-2013, 08:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
So I just got news that the Obama administration is suing BMW because they run background checks on African Americans before hiring them.

Just wanted to share that and get your opinions.

Anyone else agree that could be doing better things than telling a company that's not in his country what to do? Maybe he is mad because his bullet proof Cadillac lost in a race against a bimmer. what a joke of a man
The EEOC is a federal agency created in 1965. The joke here is folks like you using non-political public forums to spread your uneducated views.
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      06-26-2013, 08:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandMs335Msport View Post
Actually I doubt Obama is personally suing BMW, However If bmw is only running background checks on black people, which I doubt, then fuck them.

Mark

Edit: The F*** Them was aimed at BMW, not black folks to be perfectly clear
HAHAHAHAHA RACIST!!!!!
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      06-26-2013, 10:40 AM   #30
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I like where this thread is going
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      06-26-2013, 11:10 AM   #31
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Wow, BMW forum haz stoopid ppl 2!
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      06-26-2013, 11:20 AM   #32
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They ran a background check on me. Im not black.
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      06-26-2013, 12:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
WHAT? Obama is black? Damn my color blindness is more serious than I thought.
Actually, it is funny, because half of his ancestry tree is white, the other black, that makes him black. Stricly speaking, he is just as white as he is black.
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      06-26-2013, 12:46 PM   #34
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      06-26-2013, 01:01 PM   #35
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      06-26-2013, 02:07 PM   #36
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Gotta love the libtarded world we live in today.
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      06-26-2013, 05:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmahany View Post
BTW this is a much better article and source if you actually want to read about this before you start bitching:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...518855020.html
Thank you for the much much much better article that's not reagancoalition.com filled with ads.
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      06-26-2013, 06:01 PM   #38
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http://topconservativenews.com/2013/...outh-carolina/
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      06-26-2013, 06:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE JEDI View Post
Okay Jedi (ME) is black...from what I read they used these backround checks to fire or not promote people who had initially passed backround checks, now if you have a guy who's a car thief(ISSA) of course you don't hire them or promote, but we are talking about people for speeding tickets and things like that..now if it's shown you had other people with similar problems and they didn't get let go..BIMMER you have a problem...
Apparently, you're one of the few people who bothered to read into the situation at hand before posting.


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Originally Posted by ndukyh View Post
Thank you for the much much much better article that's not reagancoalition.com filled with ads.
You're welcome. I try not to get my news from one-sided biased sources. That's not journalism. That's just blogging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by williamf View Post
Lots of words put together to form sentences, yet there was zero substance behind them
You wrote this big long beautiful post that was essentially full of rambling nonsense. It’s nice that you chose to cite specific examples, but you completely failed to miss both the subject at hand, as well as the general topic of discrimination.

Discrimination is most certainly legal in certain instances. I can’t go apply at Hooters and sue when I don’t get a job as a waitress (yes, I’m a guy). I could even take that a step further and say that I saw a former employer pass on a black guy because the clients were predominantly white southerners who were quite frankly ignorant racist bastards. It may not seem fair, but it would have been a poor fit for the individual, the company, and the clients.

The reason why those cases are relevant is because gender and race were major factors in ability to perform the job. I realize that the second situation is a bit of a gray area, but my point is that physical characteristics would have affected job performance.

In the case of BMW (Dollar General is also being sued) there seems to be no reason to believe race would play a factor in the ability to perform their jobs. If you had read the article, you would have seen that these people already worked for the company (in some cases as long as 14 years), but were let go after a second background check.

The obvious proof you didn't read the article is your mention about "Why did they get hired in the first place?" Had you read the article, you would have understood that there was a change in the contractor which prompted the SECOND background check.
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      06-26-2013, 07:30 PM   #40
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So the question is....should I go try to get a good deal on a M3 now at the dealership and hope BMW issued a statement like:

"...be sure to hook all the brothaz up who come through that door! ....just to make sure we're good"
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...do it right or do it twice(or more)
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      06-26-2013, 09:22 PM   #41
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...so I'm driving in my 135i MSport conv. this eve., and I see -- count 'em -- TWO other 135s! I've never seen one in my area, and two in one day...molto cool!!
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      06-26-2013, 10:31 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmahany View Post

You wrote this big long beautiful post that was essentially full of rambling nonsense. It’s nice that you chose to cite specific examples, but you completely failed to miss both the subject at hand, as well as the general topic of discrimination.

Discrimination is most certainly legal in certain instances. I can’t go apply at Hooters and sue when I don’t get a job as a waitress (yes, I’m a guy). I could even take that a step further and say that I saw a former employer pass on a black guy because the clients were predominantly white southerners who were quite frankly ignorant racist bastards. It may not seem fair, but it would have been a poor fit for the individual, the company, and the clients.

The reason why those cases are relevant is because gender and race were major factors in ability to perform the job. I realize that the second situation is a bit of a gray area, but my point is that physical characteristics would have affected job performance.

In the case of BMW (Dollar General is also being sued) there seems to be no reason to believe race would play a factor in the ability to perform their jobs. If you had read the article, you would have seen that these people already worked for the company (in some cases as long as 14 years), but were let go after a second background check.

The obvious proof you didn't read the article is your mention about "Why did they get hired in the first place?" Had you read the article, you would have understood that there was a change in the contractor which prompted the SECOND background check.
Unfortunately, you have attempted to degrade the discussion into what is essentially name calling. Okay, I expect that from many on this forum. You are clearly part of that group of kids that have little common sense and thus think demeaning other people is a good way to have a discussion.

It is this kind of attitude that slows down the progress of change and closes minds. Too bad for you and the rest of us.

It is your kind of attitude that slows down the progress of change and closes minds. Too bad for you and the rest of us. You have attempted to degrade the discussion into what is essentially name calling. Shame shame. Just because you can be a mean jerk, does not mean that you should be one.

Did I say I read the article? No i did not. I am pretty sure you are one of the fellows who claimed the article was biased and suggested that we read the unbiased WSJ article? So why do I need to read a biased article in order to comment on our society and our rights? I am pretty sure that is not necessary my friend.

You failed to she that my comments loosely used the topic at hand to make a broader and more meaningful point. What one company does or does not do really is not going to change our society. What changes society are IDEAS. I was discussing ideas. You are just arguing. The philosophers of old called this sophistry. You might understand it as arguing for the sake of arguing.

Since you did not understand what I wrote, we can just let everyone decide for themselves what they believe. If I am not mistaken that is exactly what a forum of ideas is all about.

Now regarding your specific points.

If you understood what I wrote, I believe that even the racist is constitutionally allowed to hire whoever he/she wants. In a properly functioning market, it will self correct and the racist will be out of business.I don't need the liberals in Austin Texas legislating morality to me in Houston.

On to your next point, why do you keep pointing to secondary sources. All of the articles linked in this thread are some biased persons interpretation of facts. If you are going to criticizes someone for not being up on the topic, please provide a bibliography of all the primary source material that you have used to draw your conclusions.

Even if I take your comments at face value and even if I assume that the information you BELIEVE is pretty close to an unbiased analysis, there is this little thing in the law that is often stated as "innocent until proven guilty." Or another way of saying it is to "give someone the benefit of the doubt." I am going to give BMW the benefit of the doubt that they and their contractors are not complete idiots. The contends of any biased opinion article is not proof of anything. I think is is MASSIVELY more likely that there is a lot more to BMW's reason for taking the actions they took rather than they or their agents woke up one morning and decided to open themselves up to legal action. The likelihood is that someone in risk management made a calculation that whatever the issue was, that it was more important to fire these people and run the risk that some control freak liberals would try to sue them, instead of keeping these people on the pay roll.

On a personal note, my dear friend, I have been on the receiving end of this kind of BS as I have made the mistake of employing people that I had to fire and then my time and resources were wasted defending against unfounded claims of discrimination. For me this issue is not just academic. It is real! It costs real time, real stress and real money to defend against false claims from someone who has nothing to lose and everything to gain. Unless you are going to tell me that you have some personal experience on this topic, then I would argue that my experience trumps your article reading all day, every day.
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      06-26-2013, 10:49 PM   #43
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mmahany: I have now bothered to read your recommended article. Absolutely nothing I said in either of my above posts would have changed. I will add this though. The EEOC recommendations are impractical and the article itself makes many assumptions. In terms of the EEOC, they want each case to be individually considered when there are 300,000 applicants. Okay, lets just throw out the scientific value of statistics. Let's hire thousands of people to spend all day every day to read every single word of every single application and then spend time meditating on why that person was convicted of a drug offense. Give me a break! Don't you think your BMW already costs enough? Do you want a kinder gentler world in which your 335i cost $100K because BMW has to employ an army of psychics and psychologists to infer if the convicted felon will be a good employee?

The article is quite contradictory as well. On the one hand it seems to encourage employers to look at each individual case, but then it quotes statistics to "prove" discrimination. You cannot have it both ways. Do you want to believe in the power of statistics or not? Regarding these statistics that the author seems to like, he is only talking about 80 BMW cases. There is no need to employ statistic here. It would be easy to look at all 80 cases and I am sure BMW has already done this and can back up their decision in each case.
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      06-26-2013, 11:07 PM   #44
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From all of these events I wonder if large employers have "race" quotas in order to "diversify" their workforce so they would not get hit with stupid lawsuits? In other words if I hire anyone I want and that happens to be of certain race I will get hit with discrimination lawsuit?
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