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      06-25-2013, 09:06 AM   #1
AirbusPilot
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Exclamation 2013 Lease: Need opinions on this deal

Note: This dealer does not have this vehicle in stock (he is merely local), but can trade for the one I want.

133H M3 Cp

USD 60,100.00

Alpine White

NDSW Black Novillo Extended Leather: 1100.00

ZCP Competition Package: 2500.00


ZCW Cold Weather Package: 750.00


ZPP Premium Package: 4350.00


2MK M Double-clutch Transmission: 2900.00

5AC Automatic high beams: 250.00

655 Satellite radio w/1 year sub.: 350.00

6NR BMW Apps: 250.00

Net Total

72550.00

Destination Charge: 895.00

Gas Guzzler Tax: 1300.00

Total Suggested Price

74745.00

Port Installed Accessories:

Z03 Alcantara SW insert: 89.00

Z04 Aluminum Pedals: 210.00

Z06 Black Kidney Grilles: 162.00

Z17 Carbon Fiber Front Splitters: 911.00

Z22 Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler: 622.00

Z2F BMW M Perf Steering Wheel: 885.00

Accessories Total

2879.00

Total Price incl. accessories

$77,624.00


Sales guy: This vehicle would lease for 36 months at 12K miles/year for $1042 with the TT&L down plus first payment due at signing. The only cash due at signing in this scenario are the state taxes and fees plus the first payment, a total due of $6089. I can probably have it here for you within a week, and I can email you a credit application and deposit form to get the ball rolling if you are ready to proceed.

Thanks again,


ME: It appears I would be paying full msrp based on this initial offer.

Sales guy: This is not at MSRP, it is a $3000 discount. And Texas is one of a few states where the leasee pays sales tax on the full amount of the vehicle. Some other states do tax only the payment amount, but Texas isn't one of them. Another thing that is skewing these payments higher are the port installed accessories. They aren't subject to the residual value, they are fully amortized over the 36 payments. So that's close to $100/month just for those.

.................................................. ......

So far he has ignored my request to confirm a residual of 61% and a MF of .00127 (3.05%).

The online lease calculators aren't matching his numbers, and he doesn't seem willing to show me his numbers.

I'd like to get the lease payments at around mid $700's tops.

Any help explaining this, and what a "good" deal would look like would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark
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      06-25-2013, 09:31 AM   #2
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i am matching his numbers exactly with the residual and MF you gave but that is at MSRP, not with a $3000 discount. if you were getting $3k off MSRP it comes out to $955.

in order to get into the mid 700's you would need to be getting the car for $65k. The port installed accessories are also adding $80/ month to the payment, as he says that isn't part of the depreciation calculation, you are basically paying for them in full and then giving them back at the end of the lease.
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      06-25-2013, 09:50 AM   #3
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here are the numbers for you at msrp, 3k discount, and ending with a mid $700 payment.

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      06-25-2013, 10:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3g View Post
i am matching his numbers exactly with the residual and MF you gave but that is at MSRP, not with a $3000 discount. if you were getting $3k off MSRP it comes out to $955.

in order to get into the mid 700's you would need to be getting the car for $65k. The port installed accessories are also adding $80/ month to the payment, as he says that isn't part of the depreciation calculation, you are basically paying for them in full and then giving them back at the end of the lease.
Ok, then my math matches yours.

I'm showing a lease payment of $962.88, plus $79.90 for the accessories = $1042.78.

And this is with zero discount.

With the $3k discount, I also get $955.

I can pay the taxes and the accessory charges up front.

Invoice (bmwconfig) is $69,385. That would put me at $807mo, with taxes and accessory pmt at signing.

I had a feeling this dirt bag was trying to knife me. No wonder he won't show his math.

Thanks.

And thanks for the spreadsheet, that helps tremendously.

Are dealers selling these cars at invoice?
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      06-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
....Are dealers selling these cars at invoice?
probably...most likely not.

if you're looking to pick up an E92, this is what you have to factor in when shopping around.

production ends this month, and all the dealer's know this.
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      06-25-2013, 11:34 AM   #6
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Steve Thomas BMW sells / leases the M3 at the best prices. I doubt they have any available but it is worth a try. There are no more allocations but it is possible they have a car that a customer ordered but did not end up buying.
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ALL PARTS FOR SALE (click links and/or Send me a PM) -
KW Clubsport 3-way, Mode Carbon GTS Wing, BMW Pedals Billet Extended DCT Paddles, Advan TC3 (9.5/10.5), Planted E92 Floor Mounts, Schroth Quick Fit Pro Harnesses (Red - E82/E90/E92 Version)
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      06-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #7
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2015 M235i  [0.00]
2014 Porsche 991 C2S  [5.00]
Damn, now I feel much better about the deal I just got...

Melbourne Red
Black Novillo Leather
Dynamic Damper Control
Double Clutch
Keyless Entry
Heated Seats
Carbon Leather trim
Navi
Black Kidney Grills
CF Splitter
CF Interior Trim
CF Mirror Caps
CF Rear Spoiler
Performance Exhaust
Performance Steering wheel
Aluminum Pedals

$72,225 total
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      06-25-2013, 03:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
....I had a feeling this dirt bag was trying to knife me. No wonder he won't show his math.....
try this.

when i get a sense that a dealer is trying to sell me a car from another lot, i just go a look for that car myself.

you know the build so this won't be hard. check all your local dealers and then all in your state. once you've located your car, try and make a deal with that dealer. if your current one can't give you the courtesy of a transparent deal....go somewhere else.

but, do it quick 'cause you're running out of time.
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      06-25-2013, 03:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperjack View Post
try this.

when i get a sense that a dealer is trying to sell me a car from another lot, i just go a look for that car myself.

you know the build so this won't be hard. check all your local dealers and then all in your state. once you've located your car, try and make a deal with that dealer. if your current one can't give you the courtesy of a transparent deal....go somewhere else.

but, do it quick 'cause you're running out of time.
I actually found the car for him (it's about 200mi away). He has a convert on his lot that he has confirmed they can trade for this car.

But, I won't be doing any business with this guy.
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      06-25-2013, 04:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
....But, I won't be doing any business with this guy.
which guy? the guy who has the car or the one you were dealing with first?
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      06-25-2013, 04:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperjack View Post
which guy? the guy who has the car or the one you were dealing with first?
The sales guy locally. I found it by doing a search and reached out to my local bmw dealer.

One major item I forgot to mention is that the car already has 500 miles on it, and is considered a "demo".

I'd think the car should sell for invoice.
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      06-25-2013, 05:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
The sales guy locally. I found it by doing a search and reached out to my local bmw dealer.

One major item I forgot to mention is that the car already has 500 miles on it, and is considered a "demo".

I'd think the car should sell for invoice.
well, what you think the car should sell for and what the dealer thinks can be miles apart.

you see a car with 500 miles on it...they see that they still have one of the last E92s around for sale. what you need to do is motivate them to sell it to you for the price you'd like.....that means you need some leverage.

you get that leverage by finding other E92s out there and start dealing on them. no mater where they are. i took my search nation wide. find the best deal you can and use that to get a better deal on the car you want. and be prepared to take that other car if need be.

do this and you'll get a good idea of what the current market for these cars are like right now.

who knows ,you may find that the deal they're giving you on the demo is a good one?

you can only find out by doing some serious shopping around.....like, now.
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      06-25-2013, 05:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post

Are dealers selling these cars at invoice?
I paid $200 over invoice on my '08 and a tad under invoice on my '11.
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      06-25-2013, 05:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I paid $200 over invoice on my '08 and a tad under invoice on my '11.
that may be....but that info doesn't help someone who's trying to buy an E92 now....during the last month of it's production run.
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      06-25-2013, 05:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperjack View Post
that may be....but that info doesn't help someone who's trying to buy an E92 now....during the last month of it's production run.
I'm sure I could get essentially the same deal(s) if I wanted to buy a 2013 tomorrow.
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      06-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I'm sure I could get essentially the same deal(s) if I wanted to buy a 2013 tomorrow.
maybe, but as i was telling OP above already....the only way you can find out for sure is to shop around. that's the only way to know what the market is actually like right now for an E92.

but, if you happen to have a lead...or something that could be a good possibility, let OP know.
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      06-25-2013, 05:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperjack View Post
well, what you think the car should sell for and what the dealer thinks can be miles apart.

you see a car with 500 miles on it...they see that they still have one of the last E92s around for sale. what you need to do is motivate them to sell it to you for the price you'd like.....that means you need some leverage.

you get that leverage by finding other E92s out there and start dealing on them. no mater where they are. i took my search nation wide. find the best deal you can and use that to get a better deal on the car you want. and be prepared to take that other car if need be.

do this and you'll get a good idea of what the current market for these cars are like right now.

who knows ,you may find that the deal they're giving you on the demo is a good one?

you can only find out by doing some serious shopping around.....like, now.
Could be. I just sold my Z06, and that car is also in it's last year of production (C6 w/427ci). Prices have plummeted, not gone up..

Maybe gravity is different in the E92 world. I want one, but I don't need one. I originally was shopping used examples, but if I can get an attractive lease I'll do it.

If they want to treat these cars as collector cars, more power to them. I'll pass if that's the case. With the new M4 just over the horizon, I sure don't want to overpay because when that car shows up, the E92 will likely take a big hit on price (not that it would matter in a lease, just that I don't want to pay a premium on an outgoing model).

thanks to everyone for all the advice.
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      06-25-2013, 05:58 PM   #18
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OP, the issue with buying a M3 coupe at or near invoice is supply and demand. With most (if not all) allocations spoken for, dealers can hold out for the best offer. The silver lining, month end is fast approaching. Expand your search radius and start calling around.

I recently took delivery of my coupe. The dealer also brought into inventory two others one being a Frozen Blue. Both sold within a week. According to my CA, somebody made an offer on my car. In short, the coupes seem to be moving quickly off the lots. Not great from a buyers point-of-view.

Good luck with your search.
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      06-25-2013, 06:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
Could be. I just sold my Z06, and that car is also in it's last year of production (C6 w/427ci). Prices have plummeted, not gone up..

Maybe gravity is different in the E92 world. I want one, but I don't need one. I originally was shopping used examples, but if I can get an attractive lease I'll do it.

If they want to treat these cars as collector cars, more power to them. I'll pass if that's the case. With the new M4 just over the horizon, I sure don't want to overpay because when that car shows up, the E92 will likely take a big hit on price (not that it would matter in a lease, just that I don't want to pay a premium on an outgoing model).

thanks to everyone for all the advice.
the Corvette is not a good comparison to the M3. sales of the vette tanked drastically these past few years. it's not the same with the M3....also all this talk about the last E92s, last NA engine yada yada yada...whatever one may think of that...has a lot of M3 enthusiasts out there driving those prices up. the vette can't say the same.

however this new redesign on the vette will more than likely go for premium prices....but, i digress.

if none of this E92 hoopla appeals to you, that's a good thing. because BMW dealers would have no leverage on you.....you're probably best suited to either get something else, or buy a lightly used M3 or wait a few years after the new M3/M4 is introduced.....because those will likely go for premium prices as well.

you're probably right that the E92 will take a hit when these new generations are introduced....but, that will be probably in the used car market because there would be very few , if any new E92s left out there.
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      06-25-2013, 07:00 PM   #20
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When I pointed out his lease amount appeared to ignore the $3000 discount, he finally replied with this:

"BMW allows a dealer markup of .0004 on the lease money factor, just as a mortgage lender has a small markup on the money they loan you on a house. So our money factor here is .00167. The discount is $3000 as I said."

My response:

"No deal. I'll look elsewhere. You claim a $3000 discount, then snatch it back by discretely raising the MF. I'll be sure to mention this in my online review of your dealership, and you."

This gentlemen's name is Larry Stenson of BMW of Austin.
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      06-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
When I pointed out his lease amount appeared to ignore the $3000 discount, he finally replied with this:

"BMW allows a dealer markup of .0004 on the lease money factor, just as a mortgage lender has a small markup on the money they loan you on a house. So our money factor here is .00167. The discount is $3000 as I said."

My response:

"No deal. I'll look elsewhere. You claim a $3000 discount, then snatch it back by discretely raising the MF. I'll be sure to mention this in my online review of your dealership, and you."

This gentlemen's name is Larry Stenson of BMW of Austin.
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      06-25-2013, 09:16 PM   #22
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His response:

"I'm not aware of any dealers in this area who lease cars for the dealer buy rate. With such a large discount on the car, how would the dealer stay in business? "

My response:

"You're free to ask any price for your vehicles, the market determines sales price. The invoice on the car, as optioned, is $69,385 (plus $2879 in dealer add ons), so you are in no danger of losing money. What I find disturbing is that the locater service that led me to you promised a great deal. Your offer of a $3,000 discount was a good start. But, early in our conversation, I brought up MF and stated what BMW FS was offering. You did not correct me. And the MF I listed isn't anything special, as it's offered nationwide. Most dealerships disclose this information up front, at least when a buyer brings it up. Clearly, your discount price was no discount, as you were snatching it back with a higher MF than what BMWFS is offering, hoping I was too ignorant to discover it."
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