BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (ALMS, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-20-2013, 11:07 AM   #1
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,992
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
FIA International Tribunal - The "Tyregate"

Decision will due tomorrow!!!

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/111851.html

Quote:
The FIA's International Tribunal will deliver a decision on the Mercedes tyre test by Friday.

In a day-long hearing, the FIA, Mercedes and Pirelli were all able to state their cases in front of a panel of judges at the first ever International Tribunal. The FIA said it had not given approval for the test to take place following an "informal" approach, and that Charlie Whiting's approval is not sufficient as it is only his opinion.

The FIA also claimed that in carrying out the test both Mercedes and Pirelli had acted in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the 2013 Formula One season and to the interests of motor sport generally, therefore breaching article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

In defence, Mercedes said it received permission from Whiting following consultation with the FIA's legal team and that it has no case to answer as the test was undertaken by Pirelli. It also referenced Ferrari's tyre test prior to the Spanish Grand Prix, saying that the 2011 car used in that test still largely conforms to 2013 regulations and that Ferrari booked and paid for the circuit itself, meaning that if Mercedes has breached article 151c then so has Ferrari.

Paul Harris QC - representing Mercedes - said the team twice rang Whiting to ensure it would not be in breach of regulation 22 of the Sporting Regulations, which relates to in-season testing, and added: "We did everything we thought reasonable and within our power to obtain the relevant and proper consent - and we thought we got it."

In the afternoon, Pirelli declared its surprise at being summoned and said it can't be sanctioned by the FIA as it is not an FIA license holder, citing the 2008 Crashgate scandal is a similar example. Pirelli also claimed it did not ask Mercedes to use a 2013 car, and said an email from March 2012 proved that it had offered all teams the chance to carry out 1000km track testing.

At the end of the hearing Mercedes claimed it should receive no more than a reprimand if it is to be punished, and offered to skip the Young Driver Test at Silverstone in order to prevent gaining an advantage over its rivals.

A decision will be announced by Friday.
http://blogs.espnf1.com/The_Inside_L...e_tribunal.php

Quote:
The FIA International Tribunal was certainly an interesting way to spend a day, even if a lot of the deliberations sounded like re-rehashing of the same old points.

First, the FIA took to the stage – so to speak – outlining their case against Mercedes and Pirelli. Then lawyers for both defendants had their chance to put their cases forward, arguing that the ‘secret Barcelona test’ had – as far as they were aware at the time – complied fully with the FIA rulebook.
At the time of typing, no decision has yet been made public, and no decision is expected until Friday.

But from where I’m sitting (the Salle de Commissaires at the FIA headquarters, if you’re wondering), it looks like it will be very difficult for the Tribunal to issue either Pirelli or Mercedes with more than slaps on the wrist.

Whatever the official procedure for establishing whether or not something is legal in the Sporting Regulations, the accepted procedure has long been that the questioning party check with Charlie Whiting, who then refers the question to the FIA’s legal department should he think it necessary to do so.
According to the Mercedes lawyers – and not denied by anyone from the FIA – the Brackley-based team not only asked Whiting for permission to test with a 2013 car, but that when the race director gave his approval, they then asked for him to confirm the decision with the FIA legal department, which he did.

Both Whiting and Sebastien Bernard gave Mercedes explicit permission to test with a current car. Neither Whiting nor Bernard gave Mercedes any indication that their approval was not good enough, that they needed to put the matter to the World Motor Sport Council before official permission could be presumed.
Given that, how can Mercedes be punished for breaking a rule when it is patently clear that they took every step they thought necessary to ensure legality? As Paul Harris QC said in his closing statement to the Tribunal, Mercedes would not have gone ahead with the test had they been given the slightest indication from the FIA that to do so would get them in any sort of trouble.

It’s a pretty convincing argument…
__________________
E90SLAM is online now   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #2
URBAN LEGEND
Champ
 
URBAN LEGEND's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 M5, '13 ZL1
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,984
iTrader: (0)

Game over. They knew better. Kept it quiet too...
URBAN LEGEND is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2013, 12:33 PM   #3
EINSER M
Major General
 
EINSER M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E82 1M
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 34.1064° N, 117.5922° W, 300m altitude

Posts: 5,368
iTrader: (38)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to EINSER M Send a message via MSN to EINSER M Send a message via Yahoo to EINSER M
__________________
THE EINSER M BUILD
CLICK HERE: EINSER M BUILD

EINSER M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2013, 01:26 PM   #4
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,992
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/109785.html

Quote:
Following the news that Mercedes will face the FIA's International Tribunal, the FIA explains how the International Tribunal works

What is the IT?
Adopted by the 2010 FIA General Assembly, the IT exercises the FIA's disciplinary powers at first instance, for all cases whether they have been dealt or not with by the Stewards of the Meeting.

Who sits on the IT?
The IT is made up of 12 members, who are recommended by the FIA Judicial Appointment Committee and then elected by the FIA General Assembly.

How is the judging panel structured?
For each individual case, the President of the IT appoints a judging panel, made up of a minimum of three members, from among the members of the IT. One of them is appointed as President of the Hearing. No member of the judging panel may be of the same nationality as one of the main parties of the case.

For what reasons may the IT be held?
The President of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, may conduct an inquiry into any actions or conduct of a person under the jurisdiction of the FIA and suspected of having committed one of the offences set out in the Judicial and Disciplinary Rules of the FIA (Article 8.2). Following the inquiry, the President of the FIA may draw up an inquiry report and decide to close the case or to bring the matter before the IT to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.

What is the schedule for proceedings?
When the prosecuting body has decided to bring the matter before the IT, a notification of charges is sent to the parties being prosecuted. The President of the Hearing shall set a timetable for the hearing. In case of justified urgency, in particular for matters relating to sports competitions, the parties may call for an expedited procedure. The President of the Hearing may decide to reduce the timetable.

Which are the different infringements?
Persons having contravened the FIA Statutes and regulations, including International Sporting Code (please refer to Article 8.2 for complete list of infringements).

Which sanctions can be imposed by the IT?
The IT may impose fines, bans and/or the sanctions provided for in the FIA International Sporting Code (Article 153).

When is the decision announced?
After the close of the hearing, the President of the Hearing will announce the likely time and date when the decision will be announced. The notification of the decision shall specify that the Parties may bring an appeal against that decision before the FIA International Court of Appeal (ICA).

Who can appeal before the ICA?
The President of the FIA and the parties being prosecuted.
So yah...literally
This won't be the end of it.
__________________
E90SLAM is online now   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2013, 02:19 PM   #5
EINSER M
Major General
 
EINSER M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E82 1M
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 34.1064° N, 117.5922° W, 300m altitude

Posts: 5,368
iTrader: (38)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to EINSER M Send a message via MSN to EINSER M Send a message via Yahoo to EINSER M
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/109785.html


yah...literally
This won't be the end of it.
in that case
__________________
THE EINSER M BUILD
CLICK HERE: EINSER M BUILD

EINSER M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2013, 03:13 PM   #6
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,992
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EINSER M View Post
in that case
I'll get some chips and salsa this time.
__________________
E90SLAM is online now   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2013, 05:26 PM   #7
EINSER M
Major General
 
EINSER M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E82 1M
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 34.1064° N, 117.5922° W, 300m altitude

Posts: 5,368
iTrader: (38)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to EINSER M Send a message via MSN to EINSER M Send a message via Yahoo to EINSER M
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I'll get some chips and salsa this time.
LOL mods: add chip and salso emoticons
__________________
THE EINSER M BUILD
CLICK HERE: EINSER M BUILD

EINSER M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 09:33 AM   #8
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,992
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Like I excepted, nothing happened.

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/111943.html

Quote:
Mercedes has been reprimanded and suspended from the Young Driver Test for breaching regulations in the tyre test with Pirelli using its 2013 car.

After Thursday's day-long hearing, the International Tribunal's panel of judges delivered its verdict on Friday, and also reprimanded Pirelli for its actions. The tribunal found that neither Mercedes nor Pirelli acted in bad faith at any time, and that the test would not have taken place without the qualified approval of Charlie Whiting but decided that the test was in breach of the sporting regulations and that 'both Mercedes and Pirelli, accordingly, did act in breach of articles 1 and 151 [of the International Sporting Code]'.

The tribunal also stated that 'by running its car(s) in the course of the testing, Mercedes acted in breach of Article 22.4 h) [of the sporting regulations]' which prohibits track testing 'between the start of a ten day period which precedes the start of the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year'.

However, the tribunal found that 'the track testing, which is the subject of these proceedings, was not carried out by Pirelli and/or Mercedes with the intention that Mercedes should obtain any unfair sporting advantage', and said it believes Whiting acted in good faith having taken advice from the FIA's legal department.

However, Mercedes was found to have gained an unfair sporting advantage as a result of the test.

Decision of the International Tribunal

The Tribunal, after having heard the parties and examined their submissions, decided that:

Mercedes be reprimanded;
Mercedes be suspended from participating in the forthcoming "three day young driver training test";
Pirelli be reprimanded.
and rejected all other and further conclusions.'


The FIA, Mercedes and Pirelli have also been ordered to each pay one third of the costs of the investigation and the procedure, with the FIA having to pay all of its own legal costs.
__________________
E90SLAM is online now   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 09:35 AM   #9
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,992
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
The key evidence for Mercedes was Charlie Whiting gave them "permission" to use the 2013 car.

Quote:
Mercedes had 'no reason to believe that approval had not been given' by the FIA for it to run its 2013 car in the Pirelli tyre test, according to the International Tribunal.

Mercedes had sought clarification from Charlie Whiting that it would be able to run a 2013 car in order to provide Pirelli with a representative test, and Whiting agreed it could be viewed that "any such testing would not actually be undertaken by the competitor" following consultation with the FIA's legal department.

Having been found in breach of article 22.4 h) of the sporting regulations - which prohibits in-season track testing - Mercedes was reprimanded and banned from this year's Young Driver Test. In announcing its findings, the tribunal stated that neither Mercedes nor Pirelli had tried to hide its intentions for the test.

'Both Pirelli and Mercedes disclosed to FIA at least the essence of what they intended to do in relation to the test and attempted to obtain permission for it; and Mercedes had no reason to believe that approval had not been given.'

The tribunal also found that: 'The actions taken on behalf of FIA by Charlie Whiting (having taken advice from the legal department of FIA) were taken in good faith and with the intention of assisting the parties and consistent with sporting fairness.'

However, Mercedes has still been found in breach of regulations because the approval it believed it had received from the FIA does not overrule the sporting regulations.
http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/111981.html
__________________
E90SLAM is online now   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 10:35 AM   #10
thebishman
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Overland Park, KS

Posts: 387
iTrader: (0)

Overnight the FIA can consult with Ferrari to ask them what they want the verdict to be.
Bish
thebishman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 10:48 AM   #11
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,992
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
Overnight the FIA can consult with Ferrari to ask them what they want the verdict to be.
Bish
The F1 community needs more drama, later they the FIA can get Ferrari and RBR to take the case to International Court of Appeal.
__________________
E90SLAM is online now   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 01:17 PM   #12
EINSER M
Major General
 
EINSER M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E82 1M
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 34.1064° N, 117.5922° W, 300m altitude

Posts: 5,368
iTrader: (38)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to EINSER M Send a message via MSN to EINSER M Send a message via Yahoo to EINSER M
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
The key evidence for Mercedes was Charlie Whiting gave them "permission" to use the 2013 car.



http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/111981.html
biggest crock of shit i have ever seen i wanted to stab my eyes when i was reading this when i woke up
__________________
THE EINSER M BUILD
CLICK HERE: EINSER M BUILD

EINSER M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #13
johanness
Banned
 
Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle, Vancouver

Posts: 1,741
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
The F1 community needs more drama, later they the FIA can get Ferrari and RBR to take the case to International Court of Appeal.
I hope they do. What a bullshit outcome. Mercedes and Pirelli both got away with one here.
johanness is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-21-2013, 03:24 PM   #14
Handozizle
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2013 335i
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas

Posts: 105
iTrader: (0)

A three day private test for a test where every team can run their cars with young drivers? What a joke. Ferrari, Lotus and RBR might as well do their own private "tire" testing too then. I wonder what would happen if the Mercedes test had taken place after the young driver test?
Handozizle is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-22-2013, 06:15 AM   #15
Nang Vann
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Nang Vann's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3, R35 GT-R
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia

Posts: 1,519
iTrader: (0)

Next race is taking ages, oh well at least this tyre story is keeping us entertained.

Can't wait till next weekend
__________________
Moving on up!
Nang Vann is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-28-2013, 11:01 PM   #16
mdosu
Banned
 
Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 8,517
iTrader: (6)

For me tire-gate has always been the 2005 US Gran Prix, it turned me off to F1 to this date
mdosu is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST