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      06-17-2013, 03:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Actually, i said that in 2 sentences. But you may have overlooked the point of that explanation which were the following 3 sentences.

The first bolded statement is Sasha's or your opinion, possibly based on experience but likely based on how she or you, and others of similar mindset feel. The majority of the people you're speaking of would go out of their way to help you should you be in need; and it's not because they feel they are better than you. It's because they feel if all of us had the mind set of taking care of others as we would ourselves, all of us would be better off. One thing that most non christians don't understand is that when someone as an adult finds Christ he or she is often super excited about their new found peace and want to share it with others. Sadly, the world has a way of squelching that flame rather quickly.

I deal with a lot of people on a daily basis and i have only seen a few and i mean 2 -4 experiences where someone had something revealing their beliefs in their email signature. I have NEVER had anyone introduce themselves in this way face to face. Given, there are but a few responses in this thread, the majority seem to agree that this isn't a problem warranting a rant thread.

To the second bolded statement. I'm pretty sure if you really thought about it you could tell me. Because I'm willing to bet that it's not nearly as rampant as you make it out to be. I'm fairly up on current events and this is a rarity. The media however when reporting on these incidents would have you believe they happen the majority of the time. I think you'll find the facts would point out for every person/company using Christianity to prey on believers. There are hundreds of other companies that are christian run who don't. Either way, those companies playing on the minds of the gullible have little to do with the OPs rant.

Someone mentioned how being a christian is mostly a life style given to people by their parents. During my interaction other christians, i have found that the majority of the people i meet found Christ as an adult. Many even come from broken homes, a life of violence and crime, some from a life of addiction. Why others feel it necessary to mock these people for what they believe i have no idea.

There are so many icons people use to express their feelings of being better than other people, i don't get why this would rub anyone the wrong way anymore than the others.

Sorry for being long winded.

Yo Joe, check the sig.

Yes, but this is different than a brick & mortar business using this for dishonest business practices.

I find a lot of atheists believe people of faith follow "blindly". I would say the majority, if not all, of Christians do not have "blind faith". Faith is very much experience-based, very much real and powerful. Powerful enough to change someone's life. That is "not blind" or imaginary thinking. Not to mention all the Christians who left the faith, rediscovered it, and came back after hard-soul searching. Or people who leave other faiths and find Jesus. Or atheists-turned-Christians. If these atheists ever gave a chance of walking into a church community and befriending it's members, I think they'd find Christians from all walks of life. From the poorest to the richest, the most hurt to the most healed, and everything in between.

I think there are many atheists who misunderstand this concept and instead attack all religious people as "idiots following an old book" without truly appreciating the deep soul-searching that a lot of faithful people undergo in finding faith.

But hey, it's easier to brush us off that way.
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      06-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #24
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To add another point to this thread:

I think that perhaps some of the distaste or distrust is that a lot of people refer to themselves as Christians, without actually being true Christians. For them, its simply something they've either grown up with or perhaps its something on a form where they had to check a box with respect to what religion they are - EITHER way, for these people, the name "Christian" really means nothing to them, nor does Christ or what he's done on the cross for those who choose to believe in Him.

And it is then those people, because Christ really means nothing to them, who act in a way that is dishonest, distasteful, or in some way, they act in a way that is contrary to what the other party would expect of a Christian. And then that party then assumes that all Christians are like that, simply because that individual or company identified themselves as Christian.

Going to church and simply telling people you are a Christian doesn't make you a Christian - any more than standing in a garage and telling people you are a car makes you an actual car.

Being a Christian is life changing, because we are called to continually strive to be more Christ like each day. So it is the evidence in the life of the Christian that should be separating them from others who simply call themselves Christian. To clarify though, I'm not suggesting that one can be a Christian through their good works - its just that through faith, once you accept and believe in Christ, you should want to change, and this should become more evident through your life and the way you act.

As a note to all of the above though - being a Christian doesn't mean you don't make mistakes and you don't sin. Anyone who says that is lying. So Christians will make mistakes, and they will act in a way that is contrary to how they should. But they also should then be seeking forgiveness and not continue to act in that way and you should see changes in them.
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      06-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #25
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religion is a disease that science will slowly provide the cure.. maybe not in our lifetime but in a couple of generations it will be gone..

i still cant believe how educated people believe in an invisible being that made a path for them and knows all and bla bla bla you know the story..
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      06-17-2013, 04:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panicos81 View Post
religion is a disease that science will slowly provide the cure.. maybe not in our lifetime but in a couple of generations it will be gone..

i still cant believe how educated people believe in an invisible being that made a path for them and knows all and bla bla bla you know the story..


i wouldn't call Christians the most educated people in the world though.....
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      06-17-2013, 04:24 PM   #27
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I think many people are religious juuuuuust in case it's real, and only enough so to be able to check the "yes" box on the application - should the time come.
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      06-17-2013, 04:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panicos81 View Post
religion is a disease that science will slowly provide the cure.. maybe not in our lifetime but in a couple of generations it will be gone..

i still cant believe how educated people believe in an invisible being that made a path for them and knows all and bla bla bla you know the story..
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Originally Posted by Litos View Post


i wouldn't call Christians the most educated people in the world though.....
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I think many people are religious juuuuuust in case it's real, and only enough so to be able to check the "yes" box on the application - should the time come.
Tell that to the Billionaire investor at my church who owns several skyscrapers in Downtown Vancouver. Or to the owner of the Canucks hockey team who is also at my church. Or to the lawyers, doctors, etc.

Let us not confuse "crazy TV southern creationists" with real-life Christians.
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      06-17-2013, 05:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
To add another point to this thread:

I think that perhaps some of the distaste or distrust is that a lot of people refer to themselves as Christians, without actually being true Christians. For them, its simply something they've either grown up with or perhaps its something on a form where they had to check a box with respect to what religion they are - EITHER way, for these people, the name "Christian" really means nothing to them, nor does Christ or what he's done on the cross for those who choose to believe in Him.

And it is then those people, because Christ really means nothing to them, who act in a way that is dishonest, distasteful, or in some way, they act in a way that is contrary to what the other party would expect of a Christian. And then that party then assumes that all Christians are like that, simply because that individual or company identified themselves as Christian.

Going to church and simply telling people you are a Christian doesn't make you a Christian - any more than standing in a garage and telling people you are a car makes you an actual car.

Being a Christian is life changing, because we are called to continually strive to be more Christ like each day. So it is the evidence in the life of the Christian that should be separating them from others who simply call themselves Christian. To clarify though, I'm not suggesting that one can be a Christian through their good works - its just that through faith, once you accept and believe in Christ, you should want to change, and this should become more evident through your life and the way you act.

As a note to all of the above though - being a Christian doesn't mean you don't make mistakes and you don't sin. Anyone who says that is lying. So Christians will make mistakes, and they will act in a way that is contrary to how they should. But they also should then be seeking forgiveness and not continue to act in that way and you should see changes in them.


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i wouldn't call Christians the most educated people in the world though.....
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      06-17-2013, 05:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panicos81 View Post
religion is a disease that science will slowly provide the cure.. maybe not in our lifetime but in a couple of generations it will be gone..

i still cant believe how educated people believe in an invisible being that made a path for them and knows all and bla bla bla you know the story..
How do you suppose this will happen? What will science prove to cause religion to be "cured"?
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      06-17-2013, 05:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
I've been in the OT for a while now and used to argue with people like Shah in the religion section. (Where this thread belongs) But what i've found here and on other forums is that people like Shah seem to be as concerned with having people believe that there is no God as much as Christians are concerned with having people believe there is a God.

The only difference between the two is that people like Shah are the ones who start threads about it so they can poo poo all over someone else's beliefs. You'll be hard pressed to find Christians starting threads talking about how all the atheists are going to hell. You'll even be hard pressed to find a Christian saying a cross word about someone who has poo pooed their beliefs.

For the record Shah, being a Christian doesn't afford anyone any amount of trust. Anyone who asks for trust because of being Christian should be mistrusted. For that matter anyone who asks for trust because of being associated with any belief system or organization should be mistrusted.

Maybe someone took advantage of you some time ago who was christian? Maybe you are insecure about your own faith and are projecting your frustration onto christians? I don't claim to know. But as deep seated my beliefs are; you making a mockery of them doesn't offend me. I'll be praying for you today.


Couldn't have said it better.
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      06-17-2013, 06:08 PM   #32
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      06-17-2013, 06:45 PM   #33
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I grew up in a church, i live in the south my whole family are christians. I grew up and i personally am not. Religion comes and goes, it has since civilization. Look back at the greeks, people think what they belived was dumb, it was basically the same thing as christianty. Look at hercules, same story as your lord and savior Jesus Christ. Look at dionysus, same story. Its the same old story with a twist to make it more relavant for the time period. I dont bash people for what they believe in but please dont come to me telling me to accept Jesus, you never hear people trying to pressure people into not believing in a god
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      06-17-2013, 07:34 PM   #34
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In my life, I have met many different people in many different contexts. Not once have I had someone say to me, "Hi, I'm Joe and I am a <insert religion here>". If someone identified themselves that way to me, my suspicions would be raised, not lowered, but that has nothing to do with inherently trusting religious people or not.

It has to do with the fact that people who really are a certain way, dont usually feel the need to go around inserting it in their opening line.

For example, a guy who is most vocal about having had many women, probably hasnt. The guy who brags the most about being a superstar on the field in high school, probably wasnt. The guy who will tell anyone who will listen that he has a huge fat investment portfolio, probably doesnt.

How would most people feel if a prospective business partner shook your hand and then said, "Hi, I'm trustworthy and wont learn your weaknesses so I can then take advantage of you".

Anyone who felt compelled to lead with the fact they were a Christian probably is less likely to exhibit traditional Christian values than someone who is more humble and sincere, and lets their actions and the reputation do the talking.
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      06-17-2013, 09:27 PM   #35
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Imo, some Atheists are actually "Anti-theists" and they don't even know the difference.
+1000
Most atheists I have met, are borderline extremist in that they are as passionate about the non existence of god, as most believers are in his existence
And get just as worked up
If you really believed in the non existence of a higher power
You would get as excited as if I said I believe in the Loch Ness monster
I.e. you couldn't care less
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      06-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by panicos81 View Post
religion is a disease that science will slowly provide the cure.. maybe not in our lifetime but in a couple of generations it will be gone..

i still cant believe how educated people believe in an invisible being that made a path for them and knows all and bla bla bla you know the story..
And yet you believe in a lot of other things you have never seen
Atoms, black holes, etc
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      06-17-2013, 09:38 PM   #37
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Looking at people’s names and locations this forum appears to be filled with very diverse group of people….which I have to say is very refreshing!
Hell there are even two girls here! Who knew!

Anyhow…I grew up in the (SPIT) Islamic (FUCKING) Republic of Iran. I had the great pleasure of being in Iran during the Iran and Iraq war. If you are too young to know what that is look it up. Long story short 1 million people died because some looser spoke to his imaginary friend. As such I have a very bad taste in my mouth when some ignoramus starts talking about the virtues of a theocracy.
Now that said…..I also find it very offensive when people introduce themselves at “Joe Dick and I am a Christian”.
I half feel like saying “I am Shah…self proclaimed ruler of the universe” ….yeah good luck proving me wrong with that one!

Am I the only one offended by this type of introduction or are there others like me?
What do people outside of the US feel about this?

Never confuse a religion who those that practice it
Big difference

To insult an entire country of 75 million because you disliked their government is pretty stupid
I dislike the government of this country, but I have no hard feelings to the people of this country
On the contrary
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      06-17-2013, 09:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
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And yet you believe in a lot of other things you have never seen
Atoms, black holes, etc
Wow... there's a big difference there, terrible analogy imo. It's not a matter of "believing" that atoms exist. You can go and prove this to yourself, whether you believe it or not. Sure you may need some special equipment but you can also proxy it by other methods. The same "proxy" method is how scientists arrived at the existence of black holes. With the current framework of physics you'll never be able to "see" a black hole but it can be shown that something does indeed exist by examining the space around it.

I'm not sure you can apply the same thoughts to a religion unless you attribute seeming miracles to a deity (or deities). Please correct me if I'm wrong...
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      06-17-2013, 10:08 PM   #39
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In a long winded way are you saying its is no different than Chevy believer arguing with Ford believers which pickup truck is better.

But actually what Sasha is saying is why do people have a need to put their beliefs out in front of you, why does it matter. It just another example of if you not like them then they are better than you somehow.

To your bold statement, I agree, however, I do believe this is what they are doing, using the "I'm a Christian" moniker as a way to gain trust. Over the past 10 yrs I been seeing businesses both on the internet and in person advertising they are a Christian business, at first I could not figure out why they need to tell people this, well it seems that using that moniker will automatically give their business credibility and Christians tend to do business with other Christians, again not sure why that matters. However, did not take the con artists too long to figure this out. Can not tell you how many times I read in the paper how someone hired someone to do work for them and the reason they hired them was because they were a Christian business. The person being ripped off was completely surprise how someone could do that to them. Simply they do not care and they took advantage of you because you blindly believed in the moniker.
yes i see that a lot in email scams .

Using God's name for scamming purposes is a violation of the 3rd commandment - don't take God's name in vain.
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      06-17-2013, 10:33 PM   #40
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      06-17-2013, 11:56 PM   #41
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If only that was funny...
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      06-18-2013, 12:02 AM   #42
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I've lived in bible-belt Mississippi for 15 years and never had anyone introduce themselves to me that way. Except for gas station beggars I guess. People still find ways to sneak it into conversations when you're meeting them sometimes.
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      06-18-2013, 12:08 AM   #43
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Quote:
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And yet you believe in a lot of other things you have never seen
Atoms, black holes, etc
What?? really? those are scientifically proven..

especially biology has showed us so much that it already disproves the stories about adam and eve and creation stuff and people still refuse to see it.
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      06-18-2013, 12:11 AM   #44
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Also, I'm pretty sure we're constantly looking at atoms...
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