BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Evolve Automotive
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-21-2007, 08:17 AM   #23
13eastie
Lieutenant
13eastie's Avatar
United Kingdom
19
Rep
563
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Sorry, no cigar in my book. (If this in fact true.) Same type tires for each car is the only way to judge these cars.
Defo. This is why everyone cares so much about 'ring times and Sportauto tests in the first place. I'm waiting for a confirmed time on stock tyres - if it turns out to be 8:03 then that's cool.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 08:20 AM   #24
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
That depends on the point of view: You also could say the M runs a second better then the R8 on the same kind of tires, couldn't you?

However I heard the 8:03 was on PS2 (which is not likely any more). Assuming that would indeed best the 997S with the same kind of tires. That's what I meant, did you understand it that way?

Best regards, south
I agree with what you are saying. I want to know all the facts before passing further judgement. Even if the time was w/ Cup tires, it's still a good time.

As far as the R8 goes, yes I agree with that.

On another note. I also think that the R8 is a joke. I can't believe that Audi is getting that kind of money for such a under-performing car (for that price point). And, that dealers are asking $100k more than MSRP! Sorry for the OT rant.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 08:53 AM   #25
Just_me
Captain
65
Rep
605
Posts

 
Drives: RWD
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
Defo. This is why everyone cares so much about 'ring times and Sportauto tests in the first place. I'm waiting for a confirmed time on stock tyres - if it turns out to be 8:03 then that's cool.
if Porsche or Audi doesnt send their cars with two type of tires, then why should BMW?
Of course carmakers will give Sportauto their best configuration for their test cars. Dont hate the player, hate the game.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 08:58 AM   #26
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
if Porsche or Audi doesnt send their cars with two type of tires, then why should BMW?
Of course carmakers will give Sportauto their best configuration for their test cars. Dont hate the player, hate the game.

It doesn't matter who's responsible, it is the end result that matters. It's not a fair comparison no matter how you slice it.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:02 AM   #27
absoluteis350
First Lieutenant
11
Rep
395
Posts

 
Drives: audi RS4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: boston

iTrader: (0)

Well it shouldn't be any surprise if the M3 beats the RS4 around the 'ring... I'd be surprised if it DOESNT ! Its already been proven better on the track.. Doesn't necessarily mean anything since we already know that the M3 is a better track car in the hands of a professional driver, while 90% of the general population would be faster in an RS4.

However, that doesn't detract from the fact that the RS4 is the fastest 4-door tested around there and for some of us with kids, the only option until the M3 sedan emerges.

I'm just happy that, except for the relatively disappointing steering, the M3 sounds like a great car.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:08 AM   #28
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by absoluteis350 View Post
Well it shouldn't be any surprise if the M3 beats the RS4 around the 'ring... I'd be surprised if it DOESNT ! Its already been proven better on the track.. Doesn't necessarily mean anything since we already know that the M3 is a better track car in the hands of a professional driver, while 90% of the general population would be faster in an RS4.

However, that doesn't detract from the fact that the RS4 is the fastest 4-door tested around there and for some of us with kids, the only option until the M3 sedan emerges.

I'm just happy that, except for the relatively disappointing steering, the M3 sounds like a great car.

It is interesting that the M3 and M6 are going to be within seconds of each other at this track on stock tires, with the possibility of the M6 being slightly faster.

I would love to see sector times between the 2.

Also, the M6 had a neutered top speed with it got the 8:09 time.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:10 AM   #29
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
It doesn't matter who's responsible, it is the end result that matters. It's not a fair comparison no matter how you slice it.
Sorry, but I'm not following you. Reportedly the car tested had the M Driver's Package. It is an option from BMW. Why do you think it is not fair to compare the car with the M Drivers Package to an RS4 with optional from Audi sport tires and ceramic brakes?
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:27 AM   #30
JEllis
Brigadier General
JEllis's Avatar
84
Rep
4,793
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

iTrader: (4)

I dont really see what all the heat is about..

We are talking about tires here... something easily attainable and is probably going to be a standard mod for guys that take their M3's to the track.

Good tires only make a great car a little better. Its not like these tires are turning the M3 into a supercar.

8:03 is a great time if the only difference was tires.... nuff said

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:31 AM   #31
dechoong
First Lieutenant
10
Rep
359
Posts

 
Drives: E60 530 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KL

iTrader: (0)

I wouldn't be surprised the M3 posted 8:03 on PS2... about the same time for a Carrera S. Do remember the M3 has a 65bhp advantage so while it may be a little slower than the Carrera S in the corners, its horsepower should even things out in the straight. The E46 M3 did 8:15 (on PS1) which is comparable to the standard Carrera... there's no reason the E92 M3 is only as fast.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:44 AM   #32
ruff
Conspicuous consumption
ruff's Avatar
37
Rep
1,184
Posts

 
Drives: 987 S .2, Lemond Zurich
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The mountains of Utah

iTrader: (0)

IMO, Sportauto numbers are the most legitimate Ring times. They go out of their way to be as objective as possible with lap times. If the time proves to be correct, what a great number for the M3, even with Cup tires. To match or best the R8 and C2S on the Ring is nothing short of sensational. It goes to show how BMW has shifted from the horsepower wars to the Ring wars. BMW's extensive testing on the Ring has sure paid off. Interesting, yet predictible to see the R8 and C2S carve up the track better than the M3 at Hockenheim (a shorter and tighter track) and to see the BMW's fire breathing 4 litre scorch the longer straigtaways at the Ring.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:48 AM   #33
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
IMO, Sportauto numbers are the most legitimate Ring times. They go out of their way to be as objective as possible with lap times. If the time proves to be correct, what a great number for the M3, even with Cup tires. To best the R8 and C2S on the Ring is nothing short of sensational. It goes to show how BMW has shifted from the horsepower wars to the Ring wars. BMW's extensive testing on the Ring has sure paid off. Interesting, yet predictible to see the R8 and C2S carve up the track better than the M3 at Hockenheim which is a shorter and tighter track and to see the BMW's fire breathing 4 litre scorch the longer straigtaways at the Ring.
Good post, Ruff. (Did I really say that??)
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 10:11 AM   #34
ruff
Conspicuous consumption
ruff's Avatar
37
Rep
1,184
Posts

 
Drives: 987 S .2, Lemond Zurich
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The mountains of Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Good post, Ruff. (Did I really say that??)
Are you the fair weather friend type who only gives Kudos to me and your favorite team when I give the M3 due credit and your team is in the middle of a winning streak? Still like the other German auto makers and I have real soft spot for late 60 and early 70 Mopars....Hemi, 440, 383 and 340 six packs. Talk about heresy. Now you may want to edit your above post.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 11:11 AM   #35
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dechoong View Post
I wouldn't be surprised the M3 posted 8:03 on PS2... about the same time for a Carrera S. Do remember the M3 has a 65bhp advantage so while it may be a little slower than the Carrera S in the corners, its horsepower should even things out in the straight. The E46 M3 did 8:15 (on PS1) which is comparable to the standard Carrera... there's no reason the E92 M3 is only as fast.
That's the question, isn't it? Did the M run on PS2 or Cup tires? If it's the latter, (imo) the test isn't fair. If it was the former, then kudos +10 to BMW. Give the C2S Cup tires and it will likely run closer to 8:00 or below. Add the hp bump AND Cup tires and the M won't even be close. By the time the M hits the states, the facelifted C2S will have the addtional hp.

In the meantime, it appears that the M bested the P car, which was equipped with street tires, while the M ran race tires, which are not DOT approved for the street.

Last edited by devo; 09-21-2007 at 11:38 AM.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:04 PM   #36
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Are you the fair weather friend type who only gives Kudos to me and your favorite team when I give the M3 due credit and your team is in the middle of a winning streak?
Go team!
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:09 PM   #37
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
That's the question, isn't it? Did the M run on PS2 or Cup tires? If it's the latter, (imo) the test isn't fair. If it was the former, then kudos +10 to BMW. Give the C2S Cup tires and it will likely run closer to 8:00 or below. Add the hp bump AND Cup tires and the M won't even be close. By the time the M hits the states, the facelifted C2S will have the addtional hp.

In the meantime, it appears that the M bested the P car, which was equipped with street tires, while the M ran race tires, which are not DOT approved for the street.
There is no evidence the tires are not approved for the street.

If the tires are available as an option, then the test is fair. To use a "benchmark" tire for all cars is an interesting idea, but not practical for many reasons, including continually advancing technology.

If to make it fair, the Porsche has to use the exact same tires as the M even if the tires are not available from Porsche, then what else should be the same for comparison purposes to ensure fairness? Do both cars have to use the same brake pads also? The M cannot be obtained with ceramic brakes. To be fair, should the M get Porsche's brakes while the Porsche gets the M's tires?
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:11 PM   #38
ruff
Conspicuous consumption
ruff's Avatar
37
Rep
1,184
Posts

 
Drives: 987 S .2, Lemond Zurich
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The mountains of Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Go team!
I figured a little good hearted fun would change your tune. I should have stopped while I was ahead.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:20 PM   #39
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Various

Good rumors and good news, but not all good.

BMW insists that the car is the fastest M and if the only way it bested the M6 at 8:06 is with the tires that is just like all of the "weight savings" BMW keep mentioning for the M3. South: was the R8 8:04 on semi-race tires? Again if so this is GREAT. It is a good time either way but like devo said to make apples to apples comparisons we need a time with the regular M.P.S.s.

Anyone want to take the sub 8 minute bet I mentioned earlier with Cup+&M-DCT? It is going to be really close. This result makes me lose a bit of confidence in that prediction.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:21 PM   #40
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
I figured a little good hearted fun would change your tune.
Good post!
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:34 PM   #41
ruff
Conspicuous consumption
ruff's Avatar
37
Rep
1,184
Posts

 
Drives: 987 S .2, Lemond Zurich
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The mountains of Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Good post!
Notice what I added to my last post while you were posting. My prior post was not a good post.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:35 PM   #42
dechoong
First Lieutenant
10
Rep
359
Posts

 
Drives: E60 530 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
That's the question, isn't it? Did the M run on PS2 or Cup tires? If it's the latter, (imo) the test isn't fair. If it was the former, then kudos +10 to BMW. Give the C2S Cup tires and it will likely run closer to 8:00 or below. Add the hp bump AND Cup tires and the M won't even be close. By the time the M hits the states, the facelifted C2S will have the addtional hp.

In the meantime, it appears that the M bested the P car, which was equipped with street tires, while the M ran race tires, which are not DOT approved for the street.
911s are unmatched when it comes to putting its power down on the road . I'm not discrediting the M3 here, but the fundamentals of the 911 and the M3 are very different.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:39 PM   #43
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Notice what I added to my last post while you were posting. My prior post was not a good post.

Ruff, I cannot figure out if you are having good hearted fun or trying to bait me. So I give up.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 12:46 PM   #44
ruff
Conspicuous consumption
ruff's Avatar
37
Rep
1,184
Posts

 
Drives: 987 S .2, Lemond Zurich
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The mountains of Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Ruff, I cannot figure out if you are having good hearted fun or trying to bait me. So I give up.
Trying to have good hearted fun but realized my #34 post was probably ill-advised.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST