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      09-18-2007, 05:01 PM   #1
Jason
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Cars in Action review: M3 vs. RS4

scans from greggb


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      09-18-2007, 05:21 PM   #2
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0 - 100KMPH in 5.6 sec??? Must be a joke.
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      09-18-2007, 05:25 PM   #3
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0-100 kph 5.6s. Huh? 1400m altitude, is that it?
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      09-18-2007, 05:25 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
0 - 100KMPH in 5.6 sec??? Must be a joke.
Possibility?

1)they are not able to drive
2)it is a joke
3)high altitude ??
definitively ridicolous... (0-200km-h 19,7 sec.????????)
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      09-18-2007, 05:30 PM   #5
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0-100 kph 5.6s. Huh? 1400m altitude, is that it?
possible?! At 1400 mt. you loose probably the 25% of your power..correct?
for sure at 5000mt you have half power on aspirated engines...
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      09-18-2007, 06:04 PM   #6
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Joburg Altitude is 1,750 metres - it saps a fair bit from the power. Usually guys in SA test cars at Sea Level but not always. Kyalami is an ex F1 track in Joburg.
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      09-18-2007, 06:12 PM   #7
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There has been another comparative test with the RS4 done in Top Car magazine also done at altitude in Johannesburg.

M3 0-100km - 5.41 secs
RS4 0-100km - 5.73 secs

But then claims ambient temperature on RS4 run was 6 degrees Celsius warmer, so concludes results are very simllar. I don't have a scan of the Top Car article, but the conclusion is as follows:

"if it rained every day and I had to suggest a performance car for my brother, it would be the RS4. It's solid, confidence inspiring, extremely quick and safe. It's a choice made with the head. The M3 however is the more emotive of the two and the car I would buy for myself. It's a choice made with the heart. Put simply, its more rewarding to drive and epitomises what a sports saloon is all about .... excitement.
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      09-18-2007, 06:26 PM   #8
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5.6secs??sounds like 335
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      09-18-2007, 06:39 PM   #9
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Well, given that this was done at approx. 5000ft above sea level you can expect at least a 15% loss of power.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 ft. of elevation above Sea Level.
Naturally Aspirated: Atmospheric Pressure 14.5 psi
Atmospheric Pressure @ 5000feet = 12.2 psi
Pressure Loss = (14.5 - 12.2) = 2.3 (2.3/14.5) = 15.8% @ 5,000 feet


Above based on standard Atm pressures at different elevations.

Last edited by gasman; 09-18-2007 at 06:48 PM. Reason: calculation
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      09-18-2007, 06:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
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5.6secs??sounds like 335
yeah trim a second off that and maybe youll have a point there buddy
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      09-18-2007, 06:57 PM   #11
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Couldn't they have picked some more recent supermodels? I mean, they're comparing two brand new sports cars to some outdated 80's supermodels here.

And which one is supposed to be Cindy Crawford?
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      09-18-2007, 07:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Well, given that this was done at approx. 5000ft above sea level you can expect at least a 15% loss of power.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 ft. of elevation above Sea Level.
Naturally Aspirated: Atmospheric Pressure 14.5 psi
Atmospheric Pressure @ 5000feet = 12.2 psi
Pressure Loss = (14.5 - 12.2) = 2.3 (2.3/14.5) = 15.8% @ 5,000 feet


Above based on standard Atm pressures at different elevations.

Yes, unfortunately looking at this roughly 65hp decerease if I move to the Rockies.
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      09-18-2007, 08:36 PM   #13
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Nice

Nice review. Good to hear how many miles and how much effort went into this test. I liked the supermodel analogy although they could have used much more recent models. I am most impressed by how close the subjective scoring numbers are comparing the two cars. It again makes me think, given when the cars were designed, BMW should have been able to move farther ahead than they did. Other things that stood out to me:
  • M3 really out brakes the Audi consistently.
  • Suprised by the besting the RS4 gave the M3 in overtaking times.
  • Not suprised that the M3 continues to best the RS4 cornering speeds, so much for the Quattro "pitch", again.
  • I continue to be disappointed by all the steering feel comments. This guy clearly played around with all of the settings and put the steering in its sport setting.
  • Also disappointed by all the negative comments about the clunks and noise from the rear dif. in normal everyday (non-track) driving.
  • Did anyone else notice 26 mpg (US) in "country" driving with a range of 419 mi. YES! (might make that a new topic).
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      09-18-2007, 09:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Well, given that this was done at approx. 5000ft above sea level you can expect at least a 15% loss of power.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 ft. of elevation above Sea Level.
Naturally Aspirated: Atmospheric Pressure 14.5 psi
Atmospheric Pressure @ 5000feet = 12.2 psi
Pressure Loss = (14.5 - 12.2) = 2.3 (2.3/14.5) = 15.8% @ 5,000 feet


Above based on standard Atm pressures at different elevations.
Thankfully I live about 2 feet above sea level. OWNZJOO!
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      09-18-2007, 09:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nice review. Good to hear how many miles and how much effort went into this test. I liked the supermodel analogy although they could have used much more recent models. I am most impressed by how close the subjective scoring numbers are comparing the two cars. It again makes me think, given when the cars were designed, BMW should have been able to move farther ahead than they did. Other things that stood out to me:
  • M3 really out brakes the Audi consistently.
  • Suprised by the besting the RS4 gave the M3 in overtaking times.
  • Not suprised that the M3 continues to best the RS4 cornering speeds, so much for the Quattro "pitch", again.
  • I continue to be disappointed by all the steering feel comments. This guy clearly played around with all of the settings and put the steering in its sport setting.
  • Also disappointed by all the negative comments about the clunks and noise from the rear dif. in normal everyday (non-track) driving.
  • Did anyone else notice 26 mpg (US) in "country" driving with a range of 419 mi. YES! (might make that a new topic).
I still can't decide what is causing the wide variety of steering feel reviews. Admittedly they trend toward the negative. I also wonder what the point is when the feel is subjectively worse but the car corners better, especially when some reviewers imply the steering feel problem is only when you're not turning.
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      09-18-2007, 09:38 PM   #16
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I really have problems respecting Magazines that are not willing to delcare a winner. This guy to the easy way out...

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      09-18-2007, 09:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
I still can't decide what is causing the wide variety of steering feel reviews. Admittedly they trend toward the negative. I also wonder what the point is when the feel is subjectively worse but the car corners better, especially when some reviewers imply the steering feel problem is only when you're not turning.
I have the same concerns...

Yet, the fifth gear review said the new car feels better when turning that the old gen...

So its back and forth now with the steering

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      09-18-2007, 10:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2;1422049[*
Did anyone else notice 26 mpg (US) in "country" driving with a range of 419 mi. YES! (might make that a new topic).
Yeah, but 14.25 mpg City. Depends on the exact conditions, but I get 17+ suburban/urban in my E46 M3.
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      09-19-2007, 01:27 AM   #19
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Back and forth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
I have the same concerns...

Yet, the fifth gear review said the new car feels better when turning that the old gen...

So its back and forth now with the steering

Jason
Without doing an exact count of the reviews and their opinions on the steering I can defiitely say it is not "back and forth" (if by back and forth I read you correctly in meaning somewhat evenly split). I would say 90% of the reviews have strongly criticized the steering half or so mention the feel near straight (very slight steering input angles) and the other half mention the over-boosted nature of the steering. I think I can remember only about 2 out of 20 (really rough) than have overall praise for the steering. Some have even gone so far as to call it "terrible" or "completely numb".
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      09-19-2007, 02:34 AM   #20
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the title of this magazine is hilarious to me: "cars in action"


lol.
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      09-19-2007, 03:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Without doing an exact count of the reviews and their opinions on the steering I can defiitely say it is not "back and forth" (if by back and forth I read you correctly in meaning somewhat evenly split). I would say 90% of the reviews have strongly criticized the steering half or so mention the feel near straight (very slight steering input angles) and the other half mention the over-boosted nature of the steering. I think I can remember only about 2 out of 20 (really rough) than have overall praise for the steering. Some have even gone so far as to call it "terrible" or "completely numb".
I am referring to all the latest full tests. I am leaving out the first look tests that took place in spain. Plus, I guess I was givving Fifth Gear a little more weight....

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      09-19-2007, 08:35 AM   #22
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I have no idea where Colesburg is, but I would definitely choose Claudia Schiffer.
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