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      05-18-2013, 10:07 AM   #1
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M3 vs base 991??

You guys are killin me with all the incredible 991s pics!! I'd definitely like a 991 for next car (within next year or so), but there's such a big price jump to the s model. So, how is the base 991 model?? There really isn't all that much info out there about it. Most online/magazine car comparo's focus on the c2s models as do most of the prior reviews on this forum.

Of course the choice comes down to personal wants/preferences/budgets/etc but just want to hear your thoughts (and I'd like to hear that the 991 will be "good enough" for me). Btw, no way am I going to head out to porsche dealer just yet to test drive and find out for myself. Between the first time I test drove the m3 and finally bought one, don't think I had one good night of sleep.

Thanks!

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      05-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I'd say if you come from the current M3 the base 991 will feel a little anemic and somewhat underpowered. Having said that, speed isn't everything, and with the 911 it is mostly the overall feel. The 991 is a lot lighter, and you feel it.

I came from a supercharged 650 hp M3 to a stock 400 hp 991S, and the difference was quite substantial. But the overall feel and the emotions you experience driving a 911 can't be beat.

But... I wouldn't move from an M3 to a base Carrera, I'd wait until you can swing the 'S' version.
Sage advice as usual, appreciate the input. Although I'm looking for the total package, and not just fastest or most powerful car, I don't want to be disappointed with the power either. I figured as much since base 991 doesn't appear to be anywhere as popular as the c2s, especially among this crowd. I wish I liked the new cayman s little more, but something about the 991 just appeals to so much more than 911s in the past ever did.
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      05-19-2013, 06:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins333
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I'd say if you come from the current M3 the base 991 will feel a little anemic and somewhat underpowered. Having said that, speed isn't everything, and with the 911 it is mostly the overall feel. The 991 is a lot lighter, and you feel it.

I came from a supercharged 650 hp M3 to a stock 400 hp 991S, and the difference was quite substantial. But the overall feel and the emotions you experience driving a 911 can't be beat.

But... I wouldn't move from an M3 to a base Carrera, I'd wait until you can swing the 'S' version.
Sage advice as usual, appreciate the input. Although I'm looking for the total package, and not just fastest or most powerful car, I don't want to be disappointed with the power either. I figured as much since base 991 doesn't appear to be anywhere as popular as the c2s, especially among this crowd. I wish I liked the new cayman s little more, but something about the 991 just appeals to so much more than 911s in the past ever did.
IMO, money spent taking into consideration;
new Cayman S > 991
991S > the world(except maybe for the R8 V10 Plus)

That is until the GT3 and Turbo hits the market!
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      05-19-2013, 07:15 PM   #4
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I would not take a base 911 over an M3. I wouldn't even take the 991s over the M3 if I had never had an M3 before.
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      05-20-2013, 12:35 AM   #5
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my review is coming up in the next two weeks (: i can already tell you that I'm leaning more towards the 911
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      05-20-2013, 05:31 AM   #6
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Actually, many pundits prefer a base 991 to the S for a road car. They say it is more involving and the power advantage of the S is not very apparent in daily driving.

Purists Porsche = Base MT Carrera (without Sport Chrono, PDK, etc., etc.)

The post about the Cayman S is dead on. It is probably a dead heat, numerically, with the Base 911. Being mid-engined it is also has the engine in the "right" place and handles exceptionally well. It will never be a 911 though. If you, like I, grew up lusting after a 911, nothing else will do.

I own a 997.2 and came from a stock E46 ///M3. The real difference in the daily driver aspect is that the 997.2 on stock suspension is actually a more comfortable drive. Another huge difference is the character of the engines. The E46 M3 had to be flogged to get max power and torque as both came just before redline. Not so with the 911. I missed the high-revving motor of my M, but I do love the 911.

All that being said, I am awaiting delivery of an E92 M3 which I decided to buy specifically because a V-8 with a 8400 RPM redline is nothing short of astonishing, but it will co-exist with the 911 not replace it. Your question was about the 991, though, and that is supposed to be an even better road car because of the lengthened wheelbase and the movement of the engine further forward.

Yet, for me, if I could only have one it would have to be the Porsche 911 and I am a rabid M fan. You can get a ton of good comparisons and opinions on www.6speedonline.com in the Porsche section. It has a very active community much like this one and is broken down by model type as well. Please don't take away my ///Man card, however, I have to go with the 911 here.
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      05-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #7
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Team, while I appreciate all of this info - Post more pictures

FYI - My next car is a Carrera S or Carrera S Cabrio.
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      05-20-2013, 09:23 AM   #8
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This is an emotional decision, as much as anything else. If I didn't need four doors, I would have gotten a 911 over an m3 - even though the BMW is objectively better in a lot of respects. Even though it's morphing into a GT, I still consider the 911 to be a more pure sports car than the m3. That said, I would wait to swing for a C2S, if possible, over the base.

Growing up, I idolized the 911 - owning one would be a big deal for me and I will eventually have one (probably as a third car).
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      05-20-2013, 09:38 AM   #9
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It's very peculiar. I only want a Porsche 911 when I'm not driving the M3.
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      05-20-2013, 09:56 AM   #10
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Team Plutonium good points all.

However, if it were me, I would not get the 991 at all, either base or S. I would get a slightly used 911 GTS which has the benefits of the widebody shell (pure sex...hips!),the X51 powerkit, bringing the HP total to 408, and a host of other upgrades. Or the GTS4 which has the added benefit of AWD. The 911 GTS is widely regarded as the ultimate expression of the 997.2 line and can be had for less than the cost of a new 991. 408 hp should do the trick, no? It is precisely for the reason that Team Plutonium articulated (moving to more of a GT) that I would chose the 997.2 GTS over the 991.

OP, if you are serious about Porsche 911s go drive them. They are a true "driver's car" but the rear-engine design has inherent flaws, none that you are likely to feel at non-track velocities, however. Although, if you own a current E92 ///M3 you are already driving what some car mags have called the "best car in the world." Seriously. (Also, granted this is the 997.2 gen, Car and Driver did a comparison test between the base Carrera and the E92 M3...the ///M3 won.)

Oh, and if you think you need an exhaust to wake up the Ms V-8, be prepared to be very disappointed and underwhelmed with the sound of the flat sixes in the 911's unless it is equipped with the optional oem "sport exhaust."
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      05-20-2013, 10:24 AM   #11
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Team Plutonium, just saw your other thread about SC M3 to 991S.

I note you looked at the GTSs. I understand the OCD of wanting a new car, but a low-mileage 997.2 GTS would still be under warranty. Most of the folks I've seen driving them are older gentlemen who might burn a clutch out from riding it, but wouldn't abuse it at a track.

Still, good on ya for taking the plunge...

Totally agree with you about the perception problem between a 911 and an M3. While an M3 can often go unnoticed, except by car guys, 911s are always noticed and often not in a very positive fashion.

My one disagreement...I was always getting "challenged" to race when driving the M3 by every modded wrx, mustang, camaro, etc. No one lines up to race me in the 911. (Maybe precisely because of the assumption an "older gentleman" will be driving?)
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      05-20-2013, 11:40 AM   #12
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A base 991 is plenty fast. i am not sure where you race car drivers are driving around doing 0-60 in public roads in less than 5 seconds. The base 991 is a capable car. Having owner both 911 and M3, i can say the M3 is surely more comfortable in terms of daily driving with people getting in and out/getting grocery etc. The 911 is more precise in handling with a better balance. I am also in the same boat, but everytime i build a base 991, it's almost 110k. At that point i really might as well pony up the 10k extra and get the base to please my ego as well as the forum members (lol).

Skins - i think it's time we go for a test drive in the 991 and compare. :-)
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      05-20-2013, 09:24 PM   #13
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Team Plutonium,

Good points. However, 997.2 GTS in 8 years will be on its way to being a collector's item, first year 991S not so much. Clearly, not for you and not questioning your personal decision. But to the OP, I still stand by my assertion that it's THE Porsche 911 to buy right now, if you can stomach getting one used. Someone else has taken the depreciation hit of a new car and the car will always be in demand should you ever grow tired of it. WAY better than my 911 base, and "better" than any Porsche product extant, although perhaps not numerically on paper and, with 408 hp, will run with an M3 all day long. Granted that's just my opinion. If I were going from an M3 to a Porsche product it's the car I would be looking for instead of a new 981 or 991 anything.
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      05-20-2013, 10:45 PM   #14
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The 911 models are the only ones i like. honestly the cayman is more of a chick car IMO. the 911 is a lot more aggressive looking, and carries a better name.

but i think a base 911 is a great car. I think 911s are some of the best cars around. They are a lot of money though ! maybe its my age, but its little to slow for the money for me. Even my M3 is little slow for my taste, but i love it for a DD.
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      05-21-2013, 10:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
A base 991 is plenty fast. i am not sure where you race car drivers are driving around doing 0-60 in public roads in less than 5 seconds. The base 991 is a capable car. Having owner both 911 and M3, i can say the M3 is surely more comfortable in terms of daily driving with people getting in and out/getting grocery etc. The 911 is more precise in handling with a better balance. I am also in the same boat, but everytime i build a base 991, it's almost 110k. At that point i really might as well pony up the 10k extra and get the base to please my ego as well as the forum members (lol).

Skins - i think it's time we go for a test drive in the 991 and compare. :-)
A base 991 is as fast or faster than the outgoing 997.2 Carrera S, aka will beat out M3s handily on the track or in a straight...but again the 911 is far more than any single part of facet of performance. It is a much than that, always has been, always will be. Its a very sharp car in every regard...MT's best driver's car should easily tell you that given the competition that was involved.
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      05-21-2013, 12:44 PM   #16
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Base model anything leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather go very lightly used and get the variant I really want.
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      05-21-2013, 04:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins333 View Post
You guys are killin me with all the incredible 991s pics!! I'd definitely like a 991 for next car (within next year or so), but there's such a big price jump to the s model. So, how is the base 991 model?? There really isn't all that much info out there about it. Most online/magazine car comparo's focus on the c2s models as do most of the prior reviews on this forum.

Of course the choice comes down to personal wants/preferences/budgets/etc but just want to hear your thoughts (and I'd like to hear that the 991 will be "good enough" for me). Btw, no way am I going to head out to porsche dealer just yet to test drive and find out for myself. Between the first time I test drove the m3 and finally bought one, don't think I had one good night of sleep.

Thanks!
Been thinking the same. Is the c2s really worth another $50k over the M3? If so, I got to save my pennies a lot longer.
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      05-22-2013, 08:07 AM   #18
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Been thinking the same. Is the c2s really worth another $50k over the M3? If so, I got to save my pennies a lot longer.
Being worth X amount of dollars is subjective. Is a 458 italia worth 170K more than an m3? It all depends. When you get to the level of performance a lot of cars are now, you pay a lot for that extra bit.

I think the 991 S is absolutely worth the coin. Its' materials, its' fit and finish is second to none. The performance is that is of a supercar with only 400 hp, and IMO, it, along with maybe a few other cars, is still one of the best looking cars inside and out on the road.
The tactile feel and sound and emotion of a 911 is not something anything else short of a Ferrari can match so yes its worth it.

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      05-22-2013, 09:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rngrjag View Post
Team Plutonium, just saw your other thread about SC M3 to 991S.

I note you looked at the GTSs. I understand the OCD of wanting a new car, but a low-mileage 997.2 GTS would still be under warranty. Most of the folks I've seen driving them are older gentlemen who might burn a clutch out from riding it, but wouldn't abuse it at a track.

Still, good on ya for taking the plunge...

Totally agree with you about the perception problem between a 911 and an M3. While an M3 can often go unnoticed, except by car guys, 911s are always noticed and often not in a very positive fashion.

My one disagreement...I was always getting "challenged" to race when driving the M3 by every modded wrx, mustang, camaro, etc. No one lines up to race me in the 911. (Maybe precisely because of the assumption an "older gentleman" will be driving?)
They want to race because they see a "3" series and think they can beat it especially with all the fake M3 badges shitheads put on any 3 series. You can't fake a 911. I found this out easily because I own both.
People want to get close to see the Porsche but I've yet to be challenged. People always want to race the M3 though.
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      05-22-2013, 10:09 AM   #20
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Being worth X amount of dollars is subjective. Is a 458 italia worth 170K more than an m3? It al depends. When you get to the level of performance a lot of cars are now, you pay a lot for that extra bit.

I think the 991 S is absolutely worth the coin. Its' materials, its' fit and finish is second to none. The performance is that is of a supercar with only 400 hp, and IMO, it, along with maybe a few other cars, is still one of the best looking cars inside and out on the road.
The tactile feel and sound and emotion of a 911 is not something anything else short of a Ferrari can match so yes its worth it.
Perhaps one day I'll emotionally know what you are talking about.
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      05-22-2013, 10:35 AM   #21
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I just made that move, and I agree that the 911S is in another league, if it is worth the extra $50K (as Wolf already mentioned) is subjective.

Is it worth $50K more? The brain will say 'no', and the heart will say 'yes'. Because the 911 is more than just stats and data, it is the feel, the unmatched pedigree, and history.

I grew up in Germany and had a 911 poster hanging over my bed, once in a while I'd see one around town and on the Autobahn, it was a "realistic" super car, one that actually exists, yet it was always an event for me seeing one.

So yes, for me it is worth it the $50K (and some) more over the M3. But if you just look at the numbers and leave the emotions out of it the answer is 'no' IMHO.

Buying the 991S made me realize two things: How much I adore the 911 and what a glorious car it is, and how great and fantastic the M3 was for the price.
Totally agree. A 911 is far more than what a spec sheet will tell you. You always get far more than what a few key stats tell you about a 911.

Looking at the specs of a 991S wouldnt tell you that it will run with most modern supercars and most 500-600 hp cars on and off the track. But when you see it runs 11.9~119 mph for a 400 hp car, you wont see any car within 75 hp that will touch it. And on the track its beats out many cars that "on paper" should beat it but they dont.

I always quote the MT best driver's car 2012. One would have thought with the McLaren, the Aventador, etc competing with the 991S they would have taken top honors because of how much hp they have and that they have bigger engines or more hp...but no. Unanimously the 911 took top honors and in Porsche tradition outdid all the other with less and did so quite handily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i001947 View Post
Perhaps one day I'll emotionally know what you are talking about.
From the first drive I ever took in one I was hooked.
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      05-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #22
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There's no doubt what an amazing experience a 911 provides. I had a 997.2 c2s and for a brief period a gt3, however I could not justify paying 130k for a run of the mill 991 c2s. Spec'd out the way I wanted with pdcc, sport exhaust and all the other must have (for me) options got me into super car money territory, and that's exactly what I used the money for. Having said that, I do miss driving Porsche cars, but prefer the drive and looks of my r8 over any current Pcar.
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