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      06-13-2013, 03:44 PM   #1
Rostasteve
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Track pad recommendations please

Just picked up an E90 M3 and prepping for it's first track day. I've always run Hawk HT-10s on my E46, which aren't available for the E9x. I'm torn between DTC-70s and PFC 01s.
So, what pads are people running in stock calipers? How many track miles are you getting out them? How do they stop & feel on the track? Streetable at all?
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      06-13-2013, 04:02 PM   #2
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Allot of your questions will be found here (M3 Track FAQ).

That said, I personally use and love the XP20 front XP10 rear combination from Carbotech.
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      06-13-2013, 05:01 PM   #3
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If you can swap pads for your events that is always best. I know a few guys that run Pagid's either RS19 or 29's and leave them in between track days. You will get some squeal though. Wear is going to vary depending on the track you run and how hard you are on your brakes. I have an AP Racing BBK and I run the stock Mintex pads for street and just change the fronts for track days to Mintex F3R. (I will sometimes leave the F3R's in if I know I have a track day in a few weeks) I can get a season out of them. Pads usually run 2 sets of fronts for every set of rears.

I do however know people who go through pads every few track weekends with OEM Calipers and weekends

As Bigjae mentioned, there already are some threads that you will find helpful.
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      06-13-2013, 05:10 PM   #4
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I have run Hawk HP+ for a number of years. They are a good el'cheepo solution as they are inexpensive. They performed relatively well with good stopping power an no fade, however the initial bite and feel left to be desired. Last year, I switched to PF08s. More expensive but worth the extra money for the initial bite and confidence they provide. They also last longer than the HP+ and PF01.
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      06-13-2013, 05:19 PM   #5
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If you are looking for a ultra low-wear endurance pad, Pagid RS would be your friend.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665194

If you are simply looking for a hybrid, occasional light track duty pad, just get StopTech Street Performance.
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      06-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I have run Hawk HP+ for a number of years. They are a good el'cheepo solution as they are inexpensive. They performed relatively well with good stopping power an no fade, however the initial bite and feel left to be desired. Last year, I switched to PF08s. More expensive but worth the extra money for the initial bite and confidence they provide. They also last longer than the HP+ and PF01.
+1 on the PFC 08's....I'm a newby when it comes to high performance driving, and PFC 08's were the first and only pads that I've tried, but I've been told by instructors who've ridden with me that they were immensely impressed with the braking abilities of these pads in stock calipers and rotors.

I also use them on the street.
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      06-13-2013, 07:29 PM   #7
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I obviously didn't provide enough info in the original post. I'm looking for best pad for my driving style. The car is stock (power and weight), tires are RE-11, AD08s, and similar. Skill-wise I'm mid pack in the advanced DE run group.

Longevity and some streetability are a plus, but not a requirement. I tend to swap to street pads if I'll drive >500 street miles between events, otherwise I just live with the noise. I don't want a pad like Hawk Blue that'll eat rotors when cold.

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Allot of your questions will be found here (M3 Track FAQ).
Thanks for the link! I read through the pad thread but it seemed old, when some compounds were new or non-existent.

HP+ and Stoptech 309s are not track pads. I tried both in the past, they don't work.
Carbotech XP10/12. Everyone I spoke to say that they have great initial bite but are hard to modulate...essentially an on/off switch. People were happier moving to HT-10 & DTC70.
DTC-70/PFC01: Seem to be appropriate for R-compounds or competitive events. They seem like too my pad for my car & needs.
Pagids: I heard they don't play nice if you swap pads (e.g. street pads), not sure if that's true. Also I have a mental block on the price!
PFC06/08: seem like a good fit for me, but have never looked into them in the past so they're a mystery.

So I'm really hoping that PFC06/08 are a good fit for me, otherwise DTC70s are a fallback since Hawk is a known entity to me.

Last edited by Rostasteve; 06-14-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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      06-13-2013, 08:14 PM   #8
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I ran a set of DTC70s on my car today with R comps and had no issues with them. I only did a half day, but there was no real wear on them in 4 hours and the track is moderately hard on pads. Granted I do have ST40s front and rear. This was my first time on full slicks, and I must say I'm hooked.
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      06-13-2013, 09:19 PM   #9
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PFC 08's or Endless ME20's
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      06-14-2013, 09:12 AM   #10
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For the love of pete, do not run Hawk HP+ or HPS pads...they are not even remotely close to track capable pads. I've nearly been in several incidents now because people seem to recommend them blindly to people in your shoes asking for advice. I now refuse to ride in a car that has them installed. Both pads have a lower than OEM Maximum operating temp (MOT) and once at temp, they completely go away, leaving you with no warning or margin of safety. At one corner the car is stopping, then at the next no brakes. THere is no such thing as a street/track pad with enough margin in it to cover you moving from begineer to intermediate speeds, while still keeping enough headroom for safety. Best scenario is to learn to change out street/track pads if the warranty and noise issues from running a track pad on the street is a non starter for you (they are for me depending on how lazy I'm feeling).

The DTC60 or 70 is a great pad for the money (70s work fine on the street, they bite dead cold). PFC01/08 is also good, though the 08 seems to be really really hard on rotors on my RS.

Be safe
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      06-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #11
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I have done PFC-01's, Hawk DTC70 and Carbotech XP's. I now routinely buy PFC-01's. They are kind to rotors and bite all day. The wear rate has gone down dramatically since adding a cantrell brake duct package. I would try Pagid's, but the PFC-01 does everything I need in stock brakes and every instructor I have had has been impressed with the stopping ability of the car.

They squeal like a dump truck, and without clips, rattle so much they routinely generate inquiries as to the state of my wheel bearings. I run them too and from DEs, but cannot wait to swap them back to stock for day-to-day.
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      06-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
I have done PFC-01's, Hawk DTC70 and Carbotech XP's. I now routinely buy PFC-01's. They are kind to rotors and bite all day. The wear rate has gone down dramatically since adding a cantrell brake duct package. I would try Pagid's, but the PFC-01 does everything I need in stock brakes and every instructor I have had has been impressed with the stopping ability of the car.

They squeal like a dump truck, and without clips, rattle so much they routinely generate inquiries as to the state of my wheel bearings. I run them too and from DEs, but cannot wait to swap them back to stock for day-to-day.
+1, although I believe now even the 01s come with anti-rattle clips which helps a little on the noise. The squeal can be so bad when they are hot, driving through the local shopping area here with stop signs at every intersection... hilarious to see how people look at you.
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      06-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #13
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+1, although I believe now even the 01s come with anti-rattle clips which helps a little on the noise. The squeal can be so bad when they are hot, driving through the local shopping area here with stop signs at every intersection... hilarious to see how people look at you.
I have a new set in the box with the rattle clips. At first, I thought they had sent the wrong ones! LOL! Wearing down the old set before switching to the ones with clips.

You can see the expression on peoples face as your rattle to a squealing stop - "How can you drive an M3/BMW/German car and not look after it?"
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      06-14-2013, 10:58 AM   #14
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LiM3y signes, what tires are you running with 01s?
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      06-14-2013, 11:05 AM   #15
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LiM3y signes, what tires are you running with 01s?
Was Nitto NT-05s, now Hankook RS-3
275/35/18 on APEX ARC-8 18x10 rims
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      06-14-2013, 12:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
You can see the expression on peoples face as your rattle to a squealing stop - "How can you drive an M3/BMW/German car and not look after it?"
Boy, do I know this feeling ^^^

I installed a new set of PF08 for last weekend's track event and they also came with the anti-rattle clips.

What a nice surprise! It has been a full week of daily driving and the pads are much quieter. No more rattle a barely any squeal . I hope it will last so I can avoid having to swap pads between track days .
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      06-14-2013, 01:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
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You can see the expression on peoples face as your rattle to a squealing stop - "How can you drive an M3/BMW/German car and not look after it?"
Because race car...actually...because HPDE!
(Doesn't sound quite so tough! LOL!)
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      06-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Was Nitto NT-05s, now Hankook RS-3
275/35/18 on APEX ARC-8 18x10 rims
Pirelli Corsa, F 255/35, R 295/30 mounted on RAC RG63 (9x19, 10x19)
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      06-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
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You can see the expression on peoples face as your rattle to a squealing stop - "How can you drive an M3/BMW/German car and not look after it?"
I had a guy actually come up to me and say something to the effect of "boy, surprising having such bad brakes on such a nice car..."
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      06-14-2013, 02:07 PM   #20
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Thanks for the advice all! I decided on 08s and placed the order. Speeds freaks is organizing a group buy for the 08s now and the price was too good to resist.
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      06-14-2013, 02:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
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"How can you drive an M3/BMW/German car and not look after it?"
When I first installed my PFC06s, some smartass in a lifted dodge asked me if I needed oil for my brakes pulling into a gas station. I pretended I didn't hear him.
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      06-15-2013, 12:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rostasteve View Post
I obviously didn't provide enough info in the original post. I'm looking for best pad for my driving style. The car is stock (power and weight), tires are RE-11, AD08s, and similar. Skill-wise I'm mid pack in the advanced DE run group.

Longevity and some streetability are a plus, but not a requirement. I tend to swap to street pads if I'll drive >500 street miles between events, otherwise I just live with the noise. I don't want a pad like Hawk Blue that'll eat rotors when cold.


Thanks for the link! I read through the pad thread but it seemed old, when some compounds were new or non-existent.

HP+ and Stoptech 309s are not track pads. I tried both in the past, they don't work.
Carbotech XP10/12. Everyone I spoke to say that they have great initial bite but are hard to modulate...essentially an on/off switch. People were happier moving to HT-10 & DTC70.
DTC-70/PFC01: Seem to be appropriate for R-compounds or competitive events. They seem like too my pad for my car & needs.
Pagids: I heard they don't play nice if you swap pads (e.g. street pads), not sure if that's true. Also I have a mental block on the price!
PFC06/08: seem like a good fit for me, but have never looked into them in the past so they're a mystery.

So I'm really hoping that PFC06/08 are a good fit for me, otherwise DTC70s are a fallback since Hawk is a known entity to me.
PFC 08's. I run RE11s, stock suspension, etc., etc., etc. You can run them on the street to/from events, but you do need a couple of extra feet to stop.

Very little wear after a weekend event. Good initial torque that stays consistent throughout the braking zone (and temps). Release modulation is good too. I have PFC-06's on the E46M3 when it sees track time, but I'll go to the 08's if I ever wear the 06's out.

The Pagids previously mentioned are good pads too, if you are so inclined.
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