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      05-04-2013, 11:17 PM   #1
hl0m4n
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Question ► Is Dealer Trying To Stiff Me ? ►

so i was lucky enough to find an allocation for 13 m3 coupe and my lease payment kind of matches quotes from david and francesca with 2 exceptions:

1. original quotes from david and francesca were $884 month at 36/12k miles. i got $884 36/10k miles. typically 12k vs 10k miles is ~$10 month difference so im assuming this $360 is what dealer is getting extra?

2. i am only paying for taxes, doc fees, etc up front and dealer is charging me $5,100 - $1,500 lease cash - $750 credit = $2,850. are tax, doc fees, etc really in the $5k range? all previous cars i had were ~$3kish.

can anyone clarify the 2 exceptions above and what the dealer is doing with the numbers game?
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      05-04-2013, 11:25 PM   #2
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THe gap between 10K and 12K miles is usually more than $10 in any lease I've ever seen. You're usually looking at a 1%-2% difference in residual going from 10K to 12K. Assume it's a $70K car - $700-$1400 difference in residual / 36 months = $19-$38 a month.

I'm assuming the previous dealer quote you got was this month? If it was last month - the residuals have dropped which can make a lease calculation different.
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      05-05-2013, 10:24 AM   #3
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I can't answer question one. I don't know what type of cars you've owned previously to help answer your tax question. I believe you must pay the total tax for the car up front in NY (based on the length of the lease). I purchased my vehicle and paid around $4800 in tax in CT (7% for purchases above 50K).
I believe in NY your tax rate would be 7.5-8.5%? The total of your lease payments would be around $31,824. The tax on the total of those payments due up front would be about $2550 at 8%. That number is extremely close to the number the the dealer is quoting you. HOWEVER, I think the dealer (Not David or Francesca) is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. The tax payment they are quoting you is most likely the total tax for a vehicle purchase and not a lease. This makes the $2250 in credits they offered you useless. I think they fluffed the tax number to eliminate the credits they offered you. The credits should be deducted from the purchase price prior to the tax. With that said I would just buy the car from Ryan Amico or David Avilles. I think Ryan can have the car delivered to your house. In David's case I would take a cheap Southwest flight from Bradley International, CT to Maryland and drive the car back to NY. You will put a nice dent in the 1200 mile break on the ride home.

Good Luck!
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      05-05-2013, 10:45 AM   #4
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^ thanks man, good info. looking back at david's e-mail, he quoted me the same out of pocket i negotiated at dealer and you are right that in ny you pay tax up front with our ridiculous rates .

but even david and francesca took the credits out on the out of pocket and not price of car. you sure you can use the credit off the car cause $2250 would equal to ~$60 off a month no assuming ~$1k per $30 off monthly payment making my monthly $824.

i would for sure buy from david or fran but they are out of allocations and i found an allocation.
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Last edited by hl0m4n; 05-05-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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      05-05-2013, 11:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
^ thanks man, good info. looking back at david's e-mail, he quoted me the same out of pocket i negotiated at dealer and you are right that in ny you pay tax up front with our ridiculous rates .

but even david and francesca took the credits out on the out of pocket and not price of car. you sure you can use the credit off the car cause $2250 would equal to ~$60 off a month no assuming ~$1k per $30 off monthly payment making my monthly $824.

i would for sure buy from david or fran but they are out of allocations and i found an allocation.
I'm not sure if the credits come off the purchase or the out of pocket. Ask the dealer what makes up the $5100 they are quoting you. What portion is tax, title, registration, etc.... The out the door number of $2850 appears right. The only question I have is where your credits are applied? Your first thoughts are correct. The out the door cost should be around $3000 WITHOUT the credits.
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      05-05-2013, 04:09 PM   #6
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^ looking at my contract here is the break down of the out of pocket:

first month payment: $886
acq fee: $925
govt fee: $96
taxes: $2986
doc fee: $199
total: $5092

does that look right?
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      05-05-2013, 04:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
^ looking at my contract here is the break down of the out of pocket:

first month payment: $886
acq fee: $925
govt fee: $96
taxes: $2986
doc fee: $199
total: $5092

does that look right?
Now that I see the breakout it appears to be accurate for a NY lease. Do you know what the purchase price and residual numbers are?
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      05-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #8
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^ thanks man so we good on out of pocket now . now for the rest:

mf: .0016
purchase: $71,090
msrp: $75,245
residual: $45,899

am i looking good?
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      05-05-2013, 04:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
^ thanks man so we good on out of pocket now . now for the rest:

mf: .0016
purchase: $71,090
msrp: $75,245
residual: $45,899

am i looking good?
Do have a list of all the options the car will come equipped with? It will help me get a better idea on the purchase price vs MSRP.
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      05-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
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metallic paint
non extended leather
carbon trim
competition
premium
dct
bmw apps
heated seats
enhanced sound

is the mf accurate? how much are each security deposit and they lower the mf by .0007 each right?
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      05-05-2013, 05:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
metallic paint
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is the mf accurate? how much are each security deposit and they lower the mf by .0007 each right?
I'm not too sure about the mf numbers. However, I think your purchase price is pretty good considering the options. I have a similarly equipped car less DCT (6 MT). My purchase price was just under 68K. Add in the DCT option and we are both in the same ballpark. All in all it doesn't sound too bad at all. I would be comfortable with deal you negotiated.
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      05-05-2013, 06:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
^ thanks man so we good on out of pocket now . now for the rest:

mf: .0016
purchase: $71,090
msrp: $75,245
residual: $45,899

am i looking good?
some more informed people may want to chime in here....but, as far as i can see, that money factor is too high. for this month i think it's lower than .0013 . the residual also looks to be too low. it's 62% of MSRP.....my math may be off, but that looks to be a little over 1000$ too low as well, which leads to a higher payment for you.
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      05-05-2013, 07:45 PM   #13
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^ yes 10k is 62% and 12k is 61% but the residuals are based on msrp so in my case the number for residual is correct.

the money factor however can be .0013 i don't know. anyone have the correct mfs for 10/12k 36month?

so overall my numbers look good according to what i gather. i just have to figure out why im only getting 10k miles for same price as the 12k that was quoted by david/franc. so dealership is getting a bit more here from me...
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      05-06-2013, 11:01 AM   #14
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so i played a bluff and dealer ended up matched my quotes from david/franc with 12k miles.

found out some interesting things on this lease i didnt know before about ny.

-taxes are paid up front
-no msd
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      05-06-2013, 11:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
so i played a bluff and dealer ended up matched my quotes from david/franc with 12k miles.......

congrats on a good deal!
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      05-06-2013, 03:05 PM   #16
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Mf is def .00130
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      05-06-2013, 07:35 PM   #17
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Congrats. Glad everything worked out to your liking.
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      05-06-2013, 07:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
I'm not too sure about the mf numbers. However, I think your purchase price is pretty good considering the options. I have a similarly equipped car less DCT (6 MT). My purchase price was just under 68K. Add in the DCT option and we are both in the same ballpark. All in all it doesn't sound too bad at all. I would be comfortable with deal you negotiated.
+1

Though you could try saving a few bucks on the acquisition fee if you're really scraping (dealer cost is $795).
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      05-07-2013, 02:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Mf is def .00130
It's 127 for May
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      05-10-2013, 12:52 PM   #20
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my mf is .0016 on my deal, if i were to get the .00127 what would my new monthly payment be?
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      05-10-2013, 02:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
my mf is .0016 on my deal, if i were to get the .00127 what would my new monthly payment be?
About $38 less
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      05-10-2013, 02:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
my mf is .0016 on my deal, if i were to get the .00127 what would my new monthly payment be?
i thought you already closed your deal?

if not, i wouldn't do it at that money factor.
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