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      05-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Very good point here. If there is no failsafe if meth stops flowing, consequences can be catastropic.

In addition, meth is just a pain to deal with. I ran it on my 335i and know how time-consuming (always need to have meth handy when your reservoir runs low) and frustrating it can be when it isn't flowing correctly.

If you want something that is seemless like a stock M3, go with a S/C kit that doesn't need meth.

Best of luck.
The only failsafe for a car tuned to depend on water / meth is a mechanical valve to open the bypass and dump boost the second it stops working. I have yet to see such a failsafe used on this platform. A led that lights up is not a failsafe it is simply a warning indicator, it will not keep the motor safe. This is why we would never tune a car to depend on it.

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What fail safes are there when the water pump fails to the water to air intercooler system or water levels become to low. Iat temps will rise pretty fast putting you in a similar boat as a water / meth system failure use for Iat cooling not add fuel?
We tune our cars with enough safety margin that they can run without the cooling system and still be safe. If intake temps rise the DME will retard timing and the car will be down on power but it will still be safe. We ran our VT2 thru an entire summer in AZ without the pump connected back in 2009 during R&D. During this time we fine tuned the software for worst case scenario. If we ran higher boost levels or ran agressive timing targets in our tune at high RPM it would most likley be a different story. We actually just had a customer who's shop installed his cooling system backwards and he took the car out and raced it. The car was perfectly safe and ran fine but he contacted me after wondering why he felt it was down on power. Last year a customer ran his VT2 kit all summer on the east coast not knowing that he broke his pump at a track day and did not have it working. We knew when we designed the kit these things would happen.

What people do not realize is that as well as our kits have performed over the years they are actually de-tuned a bit from what they can be because we take engine safety very seriously and we always assume worst case scenario. We could easily make more power if we were willing to sacrafice safety margin.
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      05-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
The only failsafe for a car tuned to depend on water / meth is a mechanical valve to open the bypass and dump boost the second it stops working. I have yet to see such a failsafe used on this platform. A led that lights up is not a failsafe it is simply a warning indicator, it will not keep the motor safe. This is why we would never tune a car to depend on it.



We tune our cars with enough safety margin that they can run without the cooling system and still be safe. If intake temps rise the DME will retard timing and the car will be down on power but it will still be safe. We ran our VT2 thru an entire summer in AZ without the pump connected back in 2009 during R&D. During this time we fine tuned the software for worst case scenario. If we ran higher boost levels or ran agressive timing targets in our tune at high RPM it would most likley be a different story. We actually just had a customer who's shop installed his cooling system backwards and he took the car out and raced it. The car was perfectly safe and ran fine but he contacted me after wondering why he felt it was down on power. Last year a customer ran his VT2 kit all summer on the east coast not knowing that he broke his pump at a track day and did not have it working. We knew when we designed the kit these things would happen.

What people do not realize is that as well as our kits have performed over the years they are actually de-tuned a bit from what they can be because we take engine safety very seriously and we always assume worst case scenario. We could easily make more power if we were willing to sacrafice safety margin.
Your false information sales tactics are sad to say the least and I will keep this short to avoid any issues with the admins.

You say you would never tune cars that are dependent on meth and insinuate that we do ( this is not the case) .. But you would tune a car to depend on 94 + octane only? Wasn't the 625 car that blew up dependent on such an octane level? Where was the safety margin?

Our level 3 kit is sold with methanol injection as a safety margin. We both know how this car's ECU works, so can you tell me that if the meth ran out the ECU would not re calibrate it's mapping to adjust for it's conditions? Requiring 93+ octane only versus us requiring pump gas plus meth is equivalent in my eyes and in fact opens up the doors to those without access to 93 + octane. In other words, Active does take engine longevity safely just as much as anyone else - our method is just different trying to provide more accessibility.

Plain and simple if you don't want to run meth that's understandable. We have other options available for those do not want to deal with extra hassle of filling a tank every couple weeks. Our level 1 and 2 do not require any meth.

Last edited by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke; 05-01-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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      05-01-2013, 12:53 PM   #47
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Your false information sales tactics are sad to say the least and I will keep this short to avoid any issues with the admins.

You say you would never tune cars that are dependent on meth and insinuate that we do ( this is not the case).. But you would tune a car to depend on 94 + octane only? Wasn't the 625 car that blew up dependent on such an octane level? Where was the safety margin?

Plain and simple if you don't want to run meth that's understandable. We have other options available for those do not want to deal with extra hassle of filling a tank every couple weeks. Our level 1 and 2 do not require any meth.
When did I ever mention your name? I was talking in general terms as to our philosopy when it comes to adding FI to motors. I think it is safe to say we feel 9+ psi is unsafe on a 12:1 CR motor and that doing so would require water / meth to keep the motor from blowing up and even then it is too much. You can insert your product into my general description if you want but that is your choice not mine.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that you do not run 89-91 octane on a supercharged car that is tuned for a min of 93+ octane. The reason we have fuel requirements listed is that we know how much safety margin we have to work with and those margins require a min level of fuel quality. The discussion was about the cooling system not running lower than required fuel quality. If someone was to use our product outside of our guidelines then there is no way for us to predict what may or may not happen or control the safety of it. Fuel quality is a required guideline.
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      05-01-2013, 01:04 PM   #48
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When did I ever mention your name? I was talking in general terms as to our philosopy when it comes to adding FI to motors. I think it is safe to say we feel 9+ psi is unsafe on a 12:1 CR motor and that doing so would require water / meth to keep the motor from blowing up and even then it is too much. You can insert your product into my general description if you want but that is your choice not mine.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that you do not run 89-91 octane on a supercharged car that is tuned for a min of 93+ octane. The reason we have fuel requirements listed is that we know how much safety margin we have to work with and those margins require a min level of fuel quality. The discussion was about the cooling system not running lower than required fuel quality. If someone was to use our product outside of our guidelines then there is no way for us to predict what may or may not happen or control the safety of it. Fuel quality is a required guideline.


I feel the same way about running afr's in the upper 13's at redline. Unlike the speculation about exactly what psi this engine can hold running lean is a real issue that should be corrected before any issues arise.
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      05-01-2013, 01:10 PM   #49
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I feel the same way about running afr's in the upper 13's at redline. Unlike the speculation about exactly what psi this engine can hold running lean is a real issue that should be corrected before any issues arise.
Based on your history I don't think your opinions hold much water my friend. let me know when you take all of the world records we hold on the E9X M3 and sell over 600 kits worldwide, then you can have an opinion
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      05-01-2013, 01:13 PM   #50
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Based on your history I don't think your opinions hold much water my friend. let me know when you take all of the world records we hold on the E9X M3 and sell over 600 kits worldwide, then you can have an opinion
Yeah with 32 years and thousands of kits on the road right now.. I believe our engineers and tuners opinions should hold a little water.
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      05-01-2013, 01:15 PM   #51
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Yeah with 32 years and thousands of kits on the road right now. I believe our engineers and tuners opinions should hold a little water.
If they think 9+ psi is a good idea because you run water / meth, I don't
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      05-01-2013, 01:16 PM   #52
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      05-01-2013, 01:18 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Wasn't the 625 car that blew up dependent on such an octane level? Where was the safety margin?
I thought BigLare's old car was a 650 kit, not a 625 kit. Those require 93 octane. The owner admitted to running it with 89.
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      05-01-2013, 01:18 PM   #54
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If they think 9+ psi is a good idea because you run water / meth, I don't
With out any evidence or data its just .
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      05-01-2013, 01:20 PM   #55
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With out any evidence or data its just .
Good luck with that
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      05-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #56
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Quote:
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I thought BigLare's old car was a 650 kit, not a 625 kit. Those require 93 octane. The owner admitted to running it with 89.
What ? Explain the definition of the word dependent. Regardless if its 93 or meth the meaning is the same.

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I think I explained the misunderstanding of our use of meth well enough. Pm me if you have any questions.
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      05-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #57
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      05-01-2013, 01:25 PM   #58
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      05-01-2013, 01:28 PM   #59
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Wasn't the 625 car that blew up dependent on such an octane level? Where was the safety margin?
I thought BigLare's old car was a 650 kit, not a 625 kit. Those require 93 octane. The owner admitted to running it with 89.
It was setup as a 650 before Larry sold it. Larry even posted that the new owner was instructed to run race or 93+ at all times.
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      05-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #60
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As to the OPs question. I have had my kit for a few months now and I daily drive my car. There are very few days that the car has sit in the garage without me driving it. I love the kit and I think the characteristics of the motor are stocklike when driving around town, but the car is another beast entirely when you realllly get on it.

I have no regrets on boosting the car and am about to order the catless sections for my Active x-pipe to get even more power. Yes that's right, I am an ESS and Active customer
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      05-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #61
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It was setup as a 650 before Larry sold it. Larry even posted that the new owner was instructed to run race or 93+ at all times.
The word dependent comes to mind.. I guess we aren't all that different after all are we?
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      05-01-2013, 01:34 PM   #62
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Quote:
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It was setup as a 650 before Larry sold it. Larry even posted that the new owner was instructed to run race or 93+ at all times.
The word dependent comes to mind..
Yes our kits are dependent on the owner to use the fuel we recommend when they pull up to a gas station. I think this is a much safer route than depending on a small pump and all the components in a meth kit to function 100%.
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      05-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #63
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Yes our kits are dependent on the owner to use the fuel we recommend when they pull up to a gas station. I think this is a much safer route than depending on a small pump and all the components in a meth kit to function 100%.
Another thing we agree on

I already explained if meth stops running the car will still run 12 afr and no problems will arise.
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      05-01-2013, 01:42 PM   #64
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      05-01-2013, 01:43 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Yes our kits are dependent on the owner to use the fuel we recommend when they pull up to a gas station. I think this is a much safer route than depending on a small pump and all the components in a meth kit to function 100%.
Another thing we agree on

I already explained if meth stops running the car will still run 12 afr and no problems will arise.
Good luck with that.
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      05-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #66
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