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      04-29-2013, 02:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckRodgers View Post
Never buy a kit that depends on water/meth for safety. If a vendor tells you it's needed that means it is being used to keep the motor safe. Buy a kit that can run safe on the pump gas you use, buy a kit with a solid reputation, have a good tech do the work and you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
Pfft!

This guy

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Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Wait a sec....was the s/c the issue or the installer?



Hmmmmmmmmm....can you specifically name companies that do this that you can substantiate with some sort of proof?

Here is more info on the car that was sold. Seems to be running well to me.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815698
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      04-29-2013, 03:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Wait a sec....was the s/c the issue or the installer?



Hmmmmmmmmm....can you specifically name companies that do this that you can substantiate with some sort of proof?
I do not want to be name calling or anything but I know a few.

Regarding installation, I'm sure these guys buying these kits aren't going to the mom and pop store down the block for install on a pricey kit on a pricey engine in a pricey car.

I guess it can go either way - nice and runs strong or nice and then kaboom. But then you always gotta be ready to pay if you want to play like that.
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      04-29-2013, 04:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
This guy




Here is more info on the car that was sold. Seems to be running well to me.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815698


Andrew you should tell that owner to immediately sell his car as he shouldn't have been running a kit that depends on meth for the past 80k miles. At this rate his car may run fine for another 80k miles...oh the horror!!!




Oh Bucky....
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      04-29-2013, 04:52 PM   #26
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What level of boost is considered safe? What is considered high and pushing the limits?
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      04-29-2013, 05:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikB316 View Post
Andrew you should tell that owner to immediately sell his car as he shouldn't have been running a kit that depends on meth for the past 80k miles. At this rate his car may run fine for another 80k miles...oh the horror!!!




Oh Bucky....
Seriously.. The hate is strong in this one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by F16RCE View Post
What level of boost is considered safe? What is considered high and pushing the limits?
Look at afrs, iats,horspower. Boost varies from blower to blower.
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      04-29-2013, 08:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikB316 View Post
Andrew you should tell that owner to immediately sell his car as he shouldn't have been running a kit that depends on meth for the past 80k miles. At this rate his car may run fine for another 80k miles...oh the horror!!!




Oh Bucky....
Im sure Bucky will chime in with some negativity at some point. I mean less than a 100 posts to his account and the majority of them are all bashing the same sponsors

All i can say is
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      04-29-2013, 09:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F16RCE View Post
What level of boost is considered safe? What is considered high and pushing the limits?
In our opinion 8 psi is about as much boost as you want to run on this motor with pump 93 octane fuel if you want to retain some safety margin. On 91 octane we suggest limiting boost to about 7 psi. At 8 psi you are starting to push the limits of the stock motor on pump fuel due to it's high compression ratio. Going beyond 8 psi will limit the amount of safety margin you can have and will also make the reliability of the motor very dependent on fuel quality. We suggest lowering the compression ratio of the motor with a proper motor build if you want to push beyond 8 psi safely. We have run our kit in house on 9+ psi on the stock motor and we know that while the power is very nice it is not something that should be done unless you are running race gas at all times and understand that the chance of motor failure is much higher.
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      04-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #30
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what is the most amount of miles you guys have seen that people have put on these motors after they get S/C???
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      04-30-2013, 01:22 PM   #31
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Maybe on your own kit and your specific blower and tune. You speak in generalities, maybe speak of your own product.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
In our opinion 8 psi is about as much boost as you want to run on this motor with pump 93 octane fuel if you want to retain some safety margin. On 91 octane we suggest limiting boost to about 7 psi. At 8 psi you are starting to push the limits of the stock motor on pump fuel due to it's high compression ratio. Going beyond 8 psi will limit the amount of safety margin you can have and will also make the reliability of the motor very dependent on fuel quality. We suggest lowering the compression ratio of the motor with a proper motor build if you want to push beyond 8 psi safely. We have run our kit in house on 9+ psi on the stock motor and we know that while the power is very nice it is not something that should be done unless you are running race gas at all times and understand that the chance of motor failure is much higher.
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      04-30-2013, 03:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F16RCE View Post
What level of boost is considered safe? What is considered high and pushing the limits?
I think it depends on the type of blower used...the vortech and rotrex flow similar air athough the PSI # is different.

All these kits are great - trust me, just be smart in your research. If you want an unbiased opinion I have first hand experience installing the big 3 guys in this industry (VF-E, AA, ESS).

As stated Each company has their own preference based on their own R&D on their own setup. Their opinions reflect their specific hardware and kit.


There was a thread to explain this all....
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      04-30-2013, 03:13 PM   #33
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Thank you



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon@Bimmersport Automotive View Post
I think it depends on the type of blower used...the vortech and rotrex flow similar air athough the PSI # is different.

All these kits are great - trust me, just be smart in your research. If you want an unbiased opinion I have first hand experience installing the big 3 guys in this industry (VF-E, AA, ESS).

As stated Each company has their own preference based on their own R&D on their own setup. Their opinions reflect their specific hardware and kit.


There was a thread to explain this all....
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      04-30-2013, 04:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
Maybe on your own kit and your specific blower and tune. You speak in generalities, maybe speak of your own product.

I am speaking of our product and I am using the laws of physics and science when doing so.

Don't get me wrong I 100% support our competition running higher boost on their kits; it is good for our business. By all means if anyone wants to change the rating of boost pressure measured at the manifold or the laws of physics be my guest. If someone wants to call X psi measured at the manifold Y psi and use the blower design as your point of reference that's fine by me. It is a well known and proven fact that can easily be researched that boost measurements do not really matter, they are simply a guideline that can be interpreted many different ways depending on the hardware used to produce it. At the end of the day it's just random numbers right? they only represent what we want them to respresent
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      04-30-2013, 04:32 PM   #35
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I understand your context. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
I am speaking of our product and I am using the laws of physics and science when doing so.

Don't get me wrong I 100% support our competition running higher boost on their kits; it is good for our business. By all means if anyone wants to change the rating of boost pressure measured at the manifold or the laws of physics be my guest. If someone wants to call X psi measured at the manifold Y psi and use the blower design as your point of reference that's fine by me. It is a well known and proven fact that can easily be researched that boost measurements do not really matter, they are simply a guideline that can be interpreted many different ways depending on the hardware used to produce it. At the end of the day it's just random numbers right? they only represent what we want them to respresent
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      04-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #36
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I just installed my ESS VT1 about 3 weeks ago.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830539

I was going to buy a 2013, but decided to keep the car one more year and add the supercharger. I went the VT1 route because I wanted to keep complexity down as much as possible. It is a low boost s/c and of course has no intercooler. My car is a daily driver in the summer - for the most part. So far, driveability is just like stock in most conditins. The exhaust note got little louder and of course you can hear the s/c & intake a little more readily at idle, but otherwise you would not detect anything unless you opened the hood

But from a performance end, the car just pulls. I cannot believe how much it pulls! I am sure a VT2 would pull even more, but quite honestly, I am very satisfied with the performance.

The only thing I am waiting for is how to handle oil changes. I am just too busy to DIY. My dealer will likely not know how to handle changing the oil in the s/c (procedure and how to charge for it), so I will likely have to go back to my installer which is not as convenient in location.

Overall the ESS VT1 has been a joy, I highly doubt you will have any regrets if you go the FI route. And it just has such a cool factor.
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      04-30-2013, 05:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckRodgers View Post
Never buy a kit that depends on water/meth for safety. If a vendor tells you it's needed that means it is being used to keep the motor safe. Buy a kit that can run safe on the pump gas you use, buy a kit with a solid reputation, have a good tech do the work and you should be fine.
Very good point here. If there is no failsafe if meth stops flowing, consequences can be catastropic.

In addition, meth is just a pain to deal with. I ran it on my 335i and know how time-consuming (always need to have meth handy when your reservoir runs low) and frustrating it can be when it isn't flowing correctly.

If you want something that is seemless like a stock M3, go with a S/C kit that doesn't need meth.

Best of luck.
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      04-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckRodgers View Post
Never buy a kit that depends on water/meth for safety. If a vendor tells you it's needed that means it is being used to keep the motor safe. Buy a kit that can run safe on the pump gas you use, buy a kit with a solid reputation, have a good tech do the work and you should be fine.
Clearly the meth line was leaking showing that the meth system was never leak tested. Did they verify if the system even pumps??? Hopefully the controller was configured right and switched on. There has been issues where customers have turned off the meth for some reason, maybe they were mislead by someone and that caused an issue. Anyway's I don't want to come across the wrong way.

Things may seem complicated although that is why $ is paid to qualified installers by the manufacturers, or through your distributor?

Every meth system that leaves our shop is controller tested (simple 5min test), and that the controller is set up right.

There IS fail safe systems built into it. There is a progressive LED in the meth system from AA that also blinks when there is an error. It also glows brighter as the meth system. If the light blinks when you open the door or turn the ignition on (based on vehicle) then you have an indication the safe guards are in place.

If you are not for it, then go for a kit that doesn't need it. It doesn't mean they are anything short, or vice versa IMO. They drive a lot different, it is truly something that can never be understood from the internet, videos, vbox, dynos, etc. I can say it because I've physically done this.

I am trying to come across not taking sides...just trying to shed some light on what seems to be a very misinterpreted....or should I rather say misrepresented topic.


Back on topic...

OP, get the kit that suites your needs and budgets. The last thing I would do is base my decision off internet opinions - DRIVE ONE or visit your nearest dealer of these companies to experience it first hand. It is the only way to really experience it all, which is definitely a thrill. I am anxious to see what a built S65 S/C feels like....and also understand if you want big power, it's not going to be bolt on and last forever (by big power I do not mean 500whp). Even the guys who have kits that are not sold with meth......are adding meth.
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      04-30-2013, 06:18 PM   #39
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There are also failsafes for increase IAT's as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon@Bimmersport Automotive View Post
Clearly the meth line was leaking showing that the meth system was never leak tested. Did they verify if the system even pumps??? Hopefully the controller was configured right and switched on. There has been issues where customers have turned off the meth for some reason, maybe they were mislead by someone and that caused an issue. Anyway's I don't want to come across the wrong way.

Things may seem complicated although that is why $ is paid to qualified installers by the manufacturers, or through your distributor?

Every meth system that leaves our shop is controller tested (simple 5min test), and that the controller is set up right.

There IS fail safe systems built into it. There is a progressive LED in the meth system from AA that also blinks when there is an error. It also glows brighter as the meth system. If the light blinks when you open the door or turn the ignition on (based on vehicle) then you have an indication the safe guards are in place.

If you are not for it, then go for a kit that doesn't need it. It doesn't mean they are anything short, or vice versa IMO. They drive a lot different, it is truly something that can never be understood from the internet, videos, vbox, dynos, etc. I can say it because I've physically done this.

I am trying to come across not taking sides...just trying to shed some light on what seems to be a very misinterpreted....or should I rather say misrepresented topic.


Back on topic...

OP, get the kit that suites your needs and budgets. The last thing I would do is base my decision off internet opinions - DRIVE ONE or visit your nearest dealer of these companies to experience it first hand. It is the only way to really experience it all, which is definitely a thrill. I am anxious to see what a built S65 S/C feels like....and also understand if you want big power, it's not going to be bolt on and last forever (by big power I do not mean 500whp). Even the guys who have kits that are not sold with meth......are adding meth.
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      04-30-2013, 06:54 PM   #40
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What fail safes are there when the water pump fails to the water to air intercooler system or water levels become to low. Iat temps will rise pretty fast putting you in a similar boat as a water / meth system failure use for Iat cooling not add fuel?
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      05-01-2013, 05:52 AM   #41
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Hi Guys

So over the last week or so i have test driven two cars with a SC and both were equally impressive. In the end i have decided to go with the Evolve option. They are only 30mins drive from me and that was a huge plus for me as i feel better knowing that if required support is only a stone throw away.

Thanks for all the advice.

M
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      05-01-2013, 08:05 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F16RCE View Post
Hi Guys

So over the last week or so i have test driven two cars with a SC and both were equally impressive. In the end i have decided to go with the Evolve option. They are only 30mins drive from me and that was a huge plus for me as i feel better knowing that if required support is only a stone throw away.

Thanks for all the advice.

M
Glad you enjoyed the test drive. Look forward to seeing your car completed next week.
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      05-01-2013, 08:45 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F16RCE View Post
Hi Guys

So over the last week or so i have test driven two cars with a SC and both were equally impressive. In the end i have decided to go with the Evolve option. They are only 30mins drive from me and that was a huge plus for me as i feel better knowing that if required support is only a stone throw away.

Thanks for all the advice.

M

Glad to see another Rotrex kit making its way onto the street!
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      05-01-2013, 10:35 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMperformance
What fail safes are there when the water pump fails to the water to air intercooler system or water levels become to low. Iat temps will rise pretty fast putting you in a similar boat as a water / meth system failure use for Iat cooling not add fuel?
I'm interested as well...
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