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      06-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I think that is the same for any car with a lot of torque... you either need the nannies on or really know what you are doing. Look at a GT2 RS... try to play with that car without nannies
I wish it were that easy but I don't see the same issue in other high torque cars even my 335i which was not designed for over 500lb ft of torque stays balanced and well behaved.

I've heard it's because of the rear sway bar being to tight and heard you can fix it with coilovers that delete the leaf spring. I am just one of those drivers that truely drives there cars, which I am sure you understand. I still want to drive the new one and have hope. I expect a full report from you on the Vette. Having owned the C63, M3, and now the C7 your feedback is great wanted. Also congrats on the new car.
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      06-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #90
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I wish it were that easy but I don't see the same issue in other high torque cars even my 335i which was not designed for over 500lb ft of torque stays balanced and well behaved.

I've heard it's because of the rear sway bar being to tight and heard you can fix it with coilovers that delete the leaf spring. I am just one of those drivers that truely drives there cars, which I am sure you understand. I still want to drive the new one and have hope. I expect a full report from you on the Vette. Having owned the C63, M3, and now the C7 your feedback is great wanted. Also congrats on the new car.
That is a little bit of apples to oranges... the C7 has 465 ft. lbs torque (more torque at 1,000 RPM than a 911 does at peak) in a car that weighs 3,298 lbs. That isn't comparable to the 335i. The Corvette, even the C6, is a very balanced car and handles extremely well. No car with this level of power and weight is well behaved for inexperienced drivers. It doesn't matter how well behaved a car is once you put that kind of power to the wheels. I have a friend who races and instructs and he tells me his GT2 RS with its huge torque actually scares him even though he knows what he is doing. He won't turn the stability controls off

If the C7 performs as promised (time will tell), then it will be an incredible track car. It's a very different type of car than the M3 or the C63 as it likely won't as nice for DD usage and has far less practicality but it is much more track oriented. I also believe that the magnetic suspension (a newer version of what is used by Ferrari on the 458) gives the car a very high level of balance and lets the car with uneven pavement mid corner or during braking with relative ease. The result at VIR is a clear indicator of that given a car that is $56K as tested is lapping right between the 458 Italia and the Gallardo.

Either way, time will tell once people start getting their hands on the car for testing. Until then, even with GM's lap times, it is hard to know how the car will ultimately perform. I'm betting it will do a 7:29 to 7:35 at the 'Ring which would be stellar... and only a car that is balanced (handles well, brakes well and has usable power) would be able to pull off times like that.
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      06-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #91
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That is a little bit of apples to oranges... the C7 has 465 ft. lbs torque (more torque at 1,000 RPM than a 911 does at peak) in a car that weighs 3,298 lbs. That isn't comparable to the 335i. The Corvette, even the C6, is a very balanced car and handles extremely well. No car with this level of power and weight is well behaved for inexperienced drivers. It doesn't matter how well behaved a car is once you put that kind of power to the wheels. I have a friend who races and instructs and he tells me his GT2 RS with its huge torque actually scares him even though he knows what he is doing. He won't turn the stability controls off

If the C7 performs as promised (time will tell), then it will be an incredible track car. It's a very different type of car than the M3 or the C63 as it likely won't as nice for DD usage and has far less practicality but it is much more track oriented. I also believe that the magnetic suspension (a newer version of what is used by Ferrari on the 458) gives the car a very high level of balance and lets the car with uneven pavement mid corner or during braking with relative ease. The result at VIR is a clear indicator of that given a car that is $56K as tested is lapping right between the 458 Italia and the Gallardo.

Either way, time will tell once people start getting their hands on the car for testing. Until then, even with GM's lap times, it is hard to know how the car will ultimately perform. I'm betting it will do a 7:29 to 7:35 at the 'Ring which would be stellar... and only a car that is balanced (handles well, brakes well and has usable power) would be able to pull off times like that.
As you say, time will tell in regard to the C7, but the C6 is a fascinating car, from my point of view.

On the street, they will stick like crazy, and of course are very quick in a straight line - but when you're really chasing it on those early Sunday mornings, the car isn't feeding back the way an M3 will, so your confidence level peaks at a lower point than where it should -and you end up being slower than the car.

On track, it's different, especially if you are experienced.

And no, it's not about taming the beast. It's about how the steering loads up "correctly" when you are going the way you can only go on track, and the car just goes right where you expect it to, with no drama. Swapping out the stock rubber when it wears out for something better makes for even more fun.

It's even better with DOT-legal track sneakers. Suddenly, the car is close to being a surgical tool in your hands.

If you're new on track, you won't experience this transition (yet), but if you're an instructor, the cars are just plain fun.

Am I saying that Vettes are great handlers? Absolutely not. Even dedicated track rats are typically only spending ten or twenty percent of their wheel time on track, meaning that eighty or ninety percent of the time, the handling is "meh".

The transition is great, though. It's kind of like the M3 in regard to the tach. Left side of the instrument, just OK. Right side: Yeow!

Bruce

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      06-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #92
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That is a little bit of apples to oranges... the C7 has 465 ft. lbs torque (more torque at 1,000 RPM than a 911 does at peak) in a car that weighs 3,298 lbs. That isn't comparable to the 335i. The Corvette, even the C6, is a very balanced car and handles extremely well. No car with this level of power and weight is well behaved for inexperienced drivers. It doesn't matter how well behaved a car is once you put that kind of power to the wheels. I have a friend who races and instructs and he tells me his GT2 RS with its huge torque actually scares him even though he knows what he is doing. He won't turn the stability controls off

If the C7 performs as promised (time will tell), then it will be an incredible track car. It's a very different type of car than the M3 or the C63 as it likely won't as nice for DD usage and has far less practicality but it is much more track oriented. I also believe that the magnetic suspension (a newer version of what is used by Ferrari on the 458) gives the car a very high level of balance and lets the car with uneven pavement mid corner or during braking with relative ease. The result at VIR is a clear indicator of that given a car that is $56K as tested is lapping right between the 458 Italia and the Gallardo.

Either way, time will tell once people start getting their hands on the car for testing. Until then, even with GM's lap times, it is hard to know how the car will ultimately perform. I'm betting it will do a 7:29 to 7:35 at the 'Ring which would be stellar... and only a car that is balanced (handles well, brakes well and has usable power) would be able to pull off times like that.
Yes I understand they are the same car but the same token you can't compare a rear engine car either. My car my be 250lbs heavier but it makes more torque at a lower rpm then the Corvette and it still is very forgiving. The Corvette is unforgiving and raw, this is a fact. There are people that prefer it that way as they want an "angry" car.

I'm not trashing Corvettes, I am just stating they are as well behaved as a lot of Sports Cars. I have no don't doubt the Corvette is going to be a beast. I am considering one but will wait a few years until they fix the bugs and I test drive it on a track. Also i can see how many grandmas but one lol I still wish it would have been AWD or Mid-Engine.
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      06-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #93
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Am I the only one who has a really hard time believing those VIR times? Faster than a GT-R? Faster than a F430 Scuderia? Faster than a Z06? I mean....come on.

If it is in fact correct I will be at the GM Dealership the second the C7 Z06 becomes available as I can only imagine what a beast that car will be.
The car won't test that fast with the magazines. The car was driven by a GM test driver (Mero) and his times are normally 3 to 4 seconds faster than what, say, C&D will achieve. On the 'Ring, as an example, most cars will have "professional" test drivers and some magazines do too (Probst) so comparing those times is more relevant. Given that we don't know who was driving the cars on the list, it is reasonable to add 4 seconds to the 2:51 time to compare the times with cars noted as C&D. I will say this... Mero did 2:48 in a C6 ZR1, 2:50 in the C6 Z06 and 2:51.78 in the C7 standard car. The car is realistically 1 to 2 seconds slower than the outgoing Z06 at VIR with the same driver. C&D did a 2:53.5 in the Z06 (versus Mero at 2:50) so it makes sense that C&D will likely test the C7 at around 2:55. That is still, IMO, incredibly fast as it puts in smack dab in the times of the GT3 RS, GT-R, F430 Scuderia, etc.

Like everything, it should be taken with a grain of salt and different days/conditions will impact the results... as we all know the only way to know for sure is same driver, same day for each car. Having said that, even at 2:55 (adjusted to remove the advantage Mero gave the car given his ability), it is as fast or faster than a LOT of very notable cars including the 997 GT3 RS, GT-R, etc. People often don't give Corvettes credit (brand, interior, etc) but the new C7 appears to be a very capable car with its MRC suspension, PTM, huge torque, etc. It isn't a car everyone will be interested in for a variety of reasons but it is a capable car especially considering the price.

You are also right in that the Z06/ZR1 versions will likely outperform almost anything else on a track.
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      06-30-2013, 09:39 AM   #94
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Just thought some people might like to put a face to a discussion

This one...



Or this one...

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      06-30-2013, 08:13 PM   #95
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      06-30-2013, 11:06 PM   #96
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      06-30-2013, 11:07 PM   #97
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I am not so sure how you can determine that all new Corvette C7 is unforgiving.

Have you driven the Stingray C7?

I think Chevy has worked hard on making it a overall a better sports car then C6. It is a step above in all directions with proper advances in technology and performance. I am pretty sure it will translate to better driving dynamics on track and off track.

There are few things I would be looking forward to in future upgrades with later year C7 Stingrays. The most important of all being a proper performance transmission instead of the 6-speed auto they are using. They need to step up and put a proper 7-speed DCT style transmission in addition to 7-speed manual.

I am also hoping that they have worked hard to improve the overall steering feel and feedback because it was never known to be as good as the Porsches.

All in all I am really liking the Stingray.



Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
The Corvette is unforgiving and raw, this is a fact. There are people that prefer it that way as they want an "angry" car.

I have no don't doubt the Corvette is going to be a beast. I am considering one but will wait a few years until they fix the bugs and I test drive it on a track.
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      06-30-2013, 11:55 PM   #98
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I am sorry and I do not want to come across as rude but this logic is a bit immature.

First off one should not buy cars to impress others or to gain their approval. You should buy a car simply because it fits your needs and desires. Because if you are looking for approval from others then you will never be 100% successful.

So there is no end to this type of juvenile logic that you should dare not buy a 320i. Because the guys with M3 look down on guys with 335i and the guys with 335i look down on guys with 328i and the guys with 328i look down upon guys with 320i. So do not get 320i cause it is bottom of the barrel. That to me is very immature.

Then why stop here lets extend that logic even one step further to all cars. The guy who is driving an M3 a top of line and full of himself does not realize that his M3 is nothing that special to some other people. Because the guy in a Porsche GT3 is looking down upon him. The guy in Porsche GT3 is being looked down upon by the guy in Ferrari 458 itallia, and the guy in 458 itallia is being looked down upon by a guy in Pagani Zonda R and the list goes on and on and on. It never ends.

I think as an automotive enthusiast one can learn to appreciate each model and each version for its distinct flavor like art work. A 320i is special in its own way and satisfies a spectrum of automotive need very well. On the other hand an M3 is a totally different flavor designed to satisfy a different spectrum of automotive need.

This does not give an M3 owner the right to look down upon 320i driver. Those that do so are insecure people that are full of themselves and look down upon other over some materialistic things.

In my humble opinion one needs to learn how to respect cars of all variety and types without inherent bias. As that is a true sign of an automotive enthusiast.

Being said that I proudly drive my tuned 335i. That is because it is bought from my hard earned money. It suits may daily needs at this point of my life better then an M3 would. So I could care less how many M3 owner would look down upon me and my car. So when and if it came down to buying a C7 stingray. I will not hesitate buying what would suit my daily needs at that stage of my life. I would care less if I am the laughing stock of car snobs elitist circle.



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Couple things, I come from the Vette world over 5 years and I had a 700hp highly modified one when I left........so first off if you buy the coupe in the Vette world you are buying the bottom of the barrel model and the Z06 guys and the ZR1 guys look down on you. Over time you will wonder why you bought a base model. Then you will do two things, waste tons of money modifying it, or sell it and buy a Z06 or ZR1.
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      07-01-2013, 02:00 AM   #99
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I am not so sure how you can determine that all new Corvette C7 is unforgiving.

Have you driven the Stingray C7?

I think Chevy has worked hard on making it a overall a better sports car then C6. It is a step above in all directions with proper advances in technology and performance. I am pretty sure it will translate to better driving dynamics on track and off track.

There are few things I would be looking forward to in future upgrades with later year C7 Stingrays. The most important of all being a proper performance transmission instead of the 6-speed auto they are using. They need to step up and put a proper 7-speed DCT style transmission in addition to 7-speed manual.

I am also hoping that they have worked hard to improve the overall steering feel and feedback because it was never known to be as good as the Porsches.

All in all I am really liking the Stingray.
I was speaking of the previous gen Vettes. I am excited about the new Vette and can't wait to drive one.
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      07-09-2013, 12:34 PM   #100
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I just read today on autoblog.com this C7 is gonna get up to 30 mpg. Unfuckingbelievable!!!!
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      07-10-2013, 02:06 AM   #101
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I just read today on autoblog.com this C7 is gonna get up to 30 mpg. Unfuckingbelievable!!!!
thats nuts.
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      07-10-2013, 06:05 AM   #102
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I just read today on autoblog.com this C7 is gonna get up to 30 mpg. Unfuckingbelievable!!!!
My old C6 Coupe regularly got 30 mpg on highway trips, assuming I behaved myself. I'm willing to bet this new one will be able to get low 30's if cruising at 65 mph and in Eco drive (which turns off 4 of the cylinders during cruising). Truly remarkable.
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      07-10-2013, 08:13 PM   #103
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30 mpg easy. My z06 got high 20s if I recall in 6th. You gotta drive one to understand, 6th gear is very tall and @ 80 mph motor is only turning like 1200 rpm.
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      07-23-2013, 08:37 AM   #104
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Saw a white C7 on the road a couple of weekends ago.

From a distance as he was coming toward my mind was saying Lotus, or something similar. Seemed very low, compact. Wasn't until side profile that I realized it was the new Vette. Awesome looking.
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      07-24-2013, 07:56 PM   #105
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Am I the only one still on the C7 kick? What's wrong with you M3 drivers?



I'm on board with most of the interior, but don't understand the paddles for rev matching on/off. Odd. Seems overkill.

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      07-24-2013, 08:36 PM   #106
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Am I the only one still on the C7 kick? What's wrong with you M3 drivers?



I'm on board with most of the interior, but don't understand the paddles for rev matching on/off. Odd. Seems overkill.

Its because its not an over-priced VW. The C7 is VERY impressive. And this is only the base corvette. What do you think the Z06 and ZR1 will do? DOMINATION
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...road-test.html
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      07-24-2013, 08:37 PM   #107
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      07-24-2013, 10:53 PM   #108
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The Edmunds review was great. Arguably the best $60K you could spend given the performance. Ignoring price the car is fantastic... when you add price into the equation it is simply stellar.
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      07-24-2013, 11:07 PM   #109
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It looks like a cheap Ferrari, and that's a good thing.
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      07-25-2013, 01:42 AM   #110
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Quote:
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30 mpg easy. My z06 got high 20s if I recall in 6th. You gotta drive one to understand, 6th gear is very tall and @ 80 mph motor is only turning like 1200 rpm.
Omg why is this so tempting
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