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      04-25-2013, 07:23 PM   #23
VCMpower
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I know! I have to get off the island to get to a dynojet, but will try to do that soon.


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Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN View Post
Wow, 590 on a dyno dynamics? I wonder what that would be on a dyno jet?
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      04-25-2013, 08:42 PM   #24
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why do the bearings need replacing? As i read it was just a precautionary measure but does the s65 lose oil pressure in instances causing the crankshaft and bearings to touch? Im a newb at this. Excuse the ignorance
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      04-25-2013, 09:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
I know! I have to get off the island to get to a dynojet, but will try to do that soon.


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Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN View Post
Wow, 590 on a dyno dynamics? I wonder what that would be on a dyno jet?
Regardless man, sick power!
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      04-26-2013, 09:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYZ View Post
pictures of bearings please
Sorry guys Ive been out of the office due to the flu*. Anyway the customer decided to go with Arp bolts Monday. As soon as they arrive we will start the tear down. Sorry for the wait I know you guys are as anxious as we are to check them out.
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      04-26-2013, 05:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYZ View Post
pictures of bearings please
Sorry guys Ive been out of the office due to the fly. Anyway the customer decided to go with Arp bolts Monday. As soon as they arrive we will start the tear down. Sorry for the wait I know you guys are as anxious as we are to check them out.
So anxious that we have the jitters like pookie from new jack city , so what exactly is the Fly ? Is it a virus of some sort ? Hope you feel better champ !
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      04-26-2013, 05:33 PM   #28
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^
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      04-26-2013, 05:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
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So anxious that we have the jitters like pookie from new jack city , so what exactly is the Fly ? Is it a virus of some sort ? Hope you feel better champ !
I was thinking it was From the fly bite. Like the move where he turns into a monstrous fly and eats things. .. Or maybe one movie reference was enough. Then sorry
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      04-26-2013, 05:42 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
Just came from the dyno. 591.6 whp 410 wtq! All measurements perfect! This level 3 is for real! It was a dyno dynamics, so similar to mustang dyno for those who want a mental comparo. Will post full review soon.
Im chasing those numbers. I got few tweaks to do till I run those figures. 558 whp at 6.7 psi.
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      04-26-2013, 06:00 PM   #31
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Sounds good man!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriskm3 View Post
Im chasing those numbers. I got few tweaks to do till I run those figures. 558 whp at 6.7 psi.
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      04-26-2013, 10:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
So anxious that we have the jitters like pookie from new jack city , so what exactly is the Fly ? Is it a virus of some sort ? Hope you feel better champ !

Nice Catch.. Flu*
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      04-26-2013, 10:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriskm3 View Post
Im chasing those numbers. I got few tweaks to do till I run those figures. 558 whp at 6.7 psi.

We talking SAE here Chris? I'm sure you can get there you have basically the same exact kit as the others. MOORRE BOOST CAPTAIN!
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      04-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #34
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VCM,
Awesome numbers!

FWIW from what I have observed it actually seems like Dyno Dynamics reads just about the same as DynoJet. I had heard the same thing about it reading like a Mustang Dyno but from every car I have seen on the different dynos, it appears the mustang reads considerably lower than both. Mustang reads similar to the WinnFlow I dynoed on at ~530whp. About 10% less that DynoJet and Dyno Dynamics. This also seems to add up based on this ~590whp dyno and the ~500whp dyno from your Gen 1 Level 2 car. Right on point! These kits are definitely the real deal
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      04-27-2013, 08:24 PM   #35
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Thanks bud!

Yeah I agree. I will get all the data up when I get back to the shop, but doing the math shows 709 crank Hp. 591.1 was at 8.7 psi and A/f was low 12's all the way.




Quote:
Originally Posted by NikB316 View Post
VCM,
Awesome numbers!

FWIW from what I have observed it actually seems like Dyno Dynamics reads just about the same as DynoJet. I had heard the same thing about it reading like a Mustang Dyno but from every car I have seen on the different dynos, it appears the mustang reads considerably lower than both. Mustang reads similar to the WinnFlow I dynoed on at ~530whp. About 10% less that DynoJet and Dyno Dynamics. This also seems to add up based on this ~590whp dyno and the ~500whp dyno from your Gen 1 Level 2 car. Right on point! These kits are definitely the real deal
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      04-28-2013, 09:03 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikB316
FWIW from what I have observed it actually seems
like Dyno Dynamics reads just about the same as DynoJet. I had
heard the same thing about it reading like a Mustang Dyno but from
every car I have seen on the different dynos, it appears the
mustang reads considerably lower than both.
Hey Nik, actually the Dyno Dynamics does read about the same as a
Mustang. But a lot of DD owners don't like the low numbers they
put out, so they add an 11% - 12% correction factor to the
numbers. It's something built in to the DD software that you can
add this "fudge factor" or not. It's actually pretty common. So
if you're seeing DD results more like a Dynojet than a Mustang,
then that's why. Check the DD section of the Dyno Database, and
you can see some entries that are marked with 11% and 12%
correction factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
I will get all the data up when I get back to the
shop, but doing the math shows 709 crank Hp. 591.1...
Not sure how you got from A to B on that one. If you have 700
crank hp with a 15% drivetrain loss, then you would have 700 *
0.85 = 595whp. To get from whp to chp, instead of multiply, you
divide. 595whp / 0.85 = 700 chp.

Most people use between 15-18% dt loss, but the real number is
about 12%. So here's all of those numbers.

591.1 / 0.88 = 672 chp (12% dt loss)
591.1 / 0.85 = 695 chp (15% dt loss)
591.1 / 0.82 = 721 chp (18% dt loss)

To get to 709 chp, need a 16.6% dt loss, which is kind of an
oddball number to choose. So I'm thinking you're doing the math
wrong...so you might want to check your math.

591.1 / 0.834 = 709 chp (16.6% dt loss).
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      04-28-2013, 11:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Hey Nik, actually the Dyno Dynamics does read about the same as a
Mustang. But a lot of DD owners don't like the low numbers they
put out, so they add an 11% - 12% correction factor to the
numbers. It's something built in to the DD software that you can
add this "fudge factor" or not. It's actually pretty common. So
if you're seeing DD results more like a Dynojet than a Mustang,
then that's why. Check the DD section of the Dyno Database, and
you can see some entries that are marked with 11% and 12%
correction factors.



Not sure how you got from A to B on that one. If you have 700
crank hp with a 15% drivetrain loss, then you would have 700 *
0.85 = 595whp. To get from whp to chp, instead of multiply, you
divide. 595whp / 0.85 = 700 chp.

Most people use between 15-18% dt loss, but the real number is
about 12%. So here's all of those numbers.

591.1 / 0.88 = 672 chp (12% dt loss)
591.1 / 0.85 = 695 chp (15% dt loss)
591.1 / 0.82 = 721 chp (18% dt loss)

To get to 709 chp, need a 16.6% dt loss, which is kind of an
oddball number to choose. So I'm thinking you're doing the math
wrong...so you might want to check your math.

591.1 / 0.834 = 709 chp (16.6% dt loss).
How I got our numbers

crank 414

avg dynojet 345

414/345= 1.2

589x1.2 = 706.8 Highest run recorded

582x1.2 = 698.4 avg run
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      04-28-2013, 12:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
How I got our numbers
crank 414
avg dynojet 345
414/345= 1.2
589x1.2 = 706.8 Highest run recorded
582x1.2 = 698.4 avg run
----


Andrew I understand how you got your numbers, but your
calculations aren't quite correct. It's a common mistake I see
people make all the time. Here's how you go from crank hp to whp,
and visa-versa with drivetrain loss.

1. Calculate DT loss factor (DTL). Let's use your numbers.
whp / chp = dt loss factor(you used chp/whp).
DTL: 345 / 414 = 0.8333

2. DT loss Percent (DTP):
DTP: (1 - DTL) * 100 = 16.6667

3. Calculate WHP from CHP:
WHP: CHP * DTF
WHP: 414 * 0.8333
WHP: 345

4. Calculate CHP from WHP. This is where most people make the
mistake, they assume you multiply. But you don't multiply, you
divide. If you don't divide, then you won't get back to 414 chp.
Remember, these are reciprocals of each other, so you must divide
to get back to where you started, not multiply again.
CHP: WHP / DTF
CHP: 345 / 0.8333
CHP: 414

Roller dynos are not well suited to calculate DT loss. You really
want a pure load-based dyno like Rototest or Dynapack to do that.
If you look at the Rototest and Dynapack results with Euro-spec
gasoline (US-94 AKI), then you find much closer to 12% actual DT
loss on these cars. The number I use for Dynojet is 15% (0.85
DTF). Tom @ EAS uses 18% (0.82 DTF).
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      04-28-2013, 01:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikB316
FWIW from what I have observed it actually seems
like Dyno Dynamics reads just about the same as DynoJet. I had
heard the same thing about it reading like a Mustang Dyno but from
every car I have seen on the different dynos, it appears the
mustang reads considerably lower than both.
Hey Nik, actually the Dyno Dynamics does read about the same as a
Mustang. But a lot of DD owners don't like the low numbers they
put out, so they add an 11% - 12% correction factor to the
numbers. It's something built in to the DD software that you can
add this "fudge factor" or not. It's actually pretty common. So
if you're seeing DD results more like a Dynojet than a Mustang,
then that's why. Check the DD section of the Dyno Database, and
you can see some entries that are marked with 11% and 12%
correction factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
I will get all the data up when I get back to the
shop, but doing the math shows 709 crank Hp. 591.1...
Not sure how you got from A to B on that one. If you have 700
crank hp with a 15% drivetrain loss, then you would have 700 *
0.85 = 595whp. To get from whp to chp, instead of multiply, you
divide. 595whp / 0.85 = 700 chp.

Most people use between 15-18% dt loss, but the real number is
about 12%. So here's all of those numbers.

591.1 / 0.88 = 672 chp (12% dt loss)
591.1 / 0.85 = 695 chp (15% dt loss)
591.1 / 0.82 = 721 chp (18% dt loss)

To get to 709 chp, need a 16.6% dt loss, which is kind of an
oddball number to choose. So I'm thinking you're doing the math
wrong...so you might want to check your math.

591.1 / 0.834 = 709 chp (16.6% dt loss).
Hey man,
Here is how I did the math. 591(new wheel HP) divide by 345( stock wheel HP) multiply by 414= 709. I know this is not exact but frankly I don't believe 90%of the dynos on here are in stone. Back to the variable thing again. I did verify with the performance shop who did my dyno and they have a 8% correction so it is closer to a dynojet than Mustang. Without me saying a thing they said they did this for the net freaks that need a schlong extension They are about dyno tuning at this shop not marketing numbers. They had a ninja zx14 on the ramp before me, 412 HP!! Crazy. They made a custom Audi intake work on that thing and turbo. Nuts. At the end of the day the numbers for my car are good enough for me.
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      04-28-2013, 03:05 PM   #40
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-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
Here is how I did the math. 591(new wheel HP)
divide by 345( stock wheel HP) multiply by 414= 709.
Gotcha. Yeah, that's correct way to do it. Just didn't know
where you pulled 16.6% DT loss because most people either use 15%
or 18%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
Back to the variable thing again. I did verify
with the performance shop who did my dyno and they have a 8%
correction
Now that we know this, we can refine it a little. First let's get
rid of the 8% correction factor to see what the DD actually read.
Then let's apply the 11% CF that most DD guys use to generate DJ
numbers. Finally, let's calculate CHP using the same method you
got above. I think you'll like the numbers even more when it's
done.

1. Get rid of the 8% CF. This is what the DD actually read.
DD: 591 / 1.08 = 547. A very stout number for the DD.

2. Apply the 11% CF. This is close to what you would have read on
a Dynojet.
DJ: 547 * 1.11 = 607 whp

3. Calculate CHP the same way you did above.
CHP: 607 / (345 / 414) = 729 CHP.

Happy with that? Very nice numbers to say the least.
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      04-28-2013, 03:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33
-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
Here is how I did the math. 591(new wheel HP)
divide by 345( stock wheel HP) multiply by 414= 709.
Gotcha. Yeah, that's correct way to do it. Just didn't know
where you pulled 16.6% DT loss because most people either use 15%
or 18%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
Back to the variable thing again. I did verify
with the performance shop who did my dyno and they have a 8%
correction
Now that we know this, we can refine it a little. First let's get
rid of the 8% correction factor to see what the DD actually read.
Then let's apply the 11% CF that most DD guys use to generate DJ
numbers. Finally, let's calculate CHP using the same method you
got above. I think you'll like the numbers even more when it's
done.

1. Get rid of the 8% CF. This is what the DD actually read.
DD: 591 / 1.08 = 547. A very stout number for the DD.

2. Apply the 11% CF. This is close to what you would have read on
a Dynojet.
DJ: 547 * 1.11 = 607 whp

3. Calculate CHP the same way you did above.
CHP: 607 / (345 / 414) = 729 CHP.

Happy with that? Very nice numbers to say the least.
Thanks for that breakdown bud! Doing 2 more SC installs and another level 3 upgrade within the next 2 weeks so will head back to dyno and run my car again as I almost fell over when I watched the line almost tick 600!!
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      04-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #42
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I am not an expert but here's some reasons that I've read that could make sense. Note that these are generic and could be from any engine
  • Pre-detonation - too much boost, low octane gas (eg 87,89). Puts pressure on the crank to cause wear.
  • Insufficient oil lubrication - not warming up the oil
  • Insufficient machining clearances

With that being said, these are generic and could be the reason for any car. I haven't seen any hard evidence of any of these being a widespread problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
why do the bearings need replacing? As i read it was just a precautionary measure but does the s65 lose oil pressure in instances causing the crankshaft and bearings to touch? Im a newb at this. Excuse the ignorance
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      04-29-2013, 09:21 AM   #43
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Update: We had a little issue with the studs that arrived from a 3rd party (not Vac) so we will have to wait for the correct ones to arrive. We did however pull one bearing down for the time being for you guys to check out. We found no abnormal wear to the bearing for the mileage.



Lower


Lower bearing -Vac coated on bottom


Lower


Upper

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      04-29-2013, 09:29 AM   #44
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Looking good !
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