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      04-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #1
davesaddiction
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R&T's take on the new GT3

Awesome, but...

"The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better."

To the rest of us, it merely becomes a better automatic. And while the GT3's PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We'd happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun.

But rather than lay all the blame on Preuninger and Germans as a whole, we're partly at fault. There was a time when most enthusiasts seemed to view the dual-clutch automatic as the second coming. After living with those transmissions for a decade, they just feel like automatics.

On that note, allow us to apologize on behalf of an entire industry. We were wrong. We don't care about shaving tenths off acceleration runs. We want to work for our lap times. We're bored to death behind the wheel, and we want to get busy with a shift lever and a clutch pedal."



http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...911-gt3-review

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      04-29-2013, 03:42 PM   #2
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What I've been saying all along. Oh, and this will get ugly.
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      04-29-2013, 04:02 PM   #3
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Porsche has become a sell out to try and win the numbers game. I'm OK with PDK as an option, but making it the only transmission for their performance car is stupid and has alienated their enthusiasts.
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      04-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #4
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"I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars, at Porsche's rain-dampened proving grounds the next day. "With the first GT3, they were practically throwing rocks at me because it didn't have an automated-manual transmission, which was where all the hype was at the time. But those transmissions weren't very good. Now, the GT3 gets a perfect [dual-clutch automatic], and everyone is screaming for the manual."

This pretty much sums up the idiocy of people today.

Get over it people, dct/pdk/etc is here to stay deal with it.

I love a manual as much as the next guy but we collectively asked for tech and now we got it.
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      04-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
"I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars, at Porsche's rain-dampened proving grounds the next day. "With the first GT3, they were practically throwing rocks at me because it didn't have an automated-manual transmission, which was where all the hype was at the time. But those transmissions weren't very good. Now, the GT3 gets a perfect [dual-clutch automatic], and everyone is screaming for the manual."

This pretty much sums up the idiocy of people today.

Get over it people, dct/pdk/etc is here to stay deal with it.

I love a manual as much as the next guy but we collectively asked for tech and now we got it.
+1
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      04-29-2013, 04:49 PM   #6
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Make a Cayman GT3 with a manual and all will be forgiven.
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      04-29-2013, 05:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
"I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars, at Porsche's rain-dampened proving grounds the next day. "With the first GT3, they were practically throwing rocks at me because it didn't have an automated-manual transmission, which was where all the hype was at the time. But those transmissions weren't very good. Now, the GT3 gets a perfect [dual-clutch automatic], and everyone is screaming for the manual."

This pretty much sums up the idiocy of people today.

Get over it people, dct/pdk/etc is here to stay deal with it.

I love a manual as much as the next guy but we collectively asked for tech and now we got it.
I don't mind if they offer it. What I do mind is that the manual is no longer even an option. The process of driving is what is enjoyable about driving, not the outcome. Speed? Yeah, it's marvelous, but doing it in an automatic is like sex with a rubber. Sure, it's kind of the same, but some of the feeling just isn't there.
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      04-29-2013, 05:29 PM   #8
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I personally am praying to God that I get the opportunity to drive one of these bad-boy PDK GT3s. I really want to test the clutch kick feature out.
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      04-29-2013, 07:45 PM   #9
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damnit, i always get my R&T 2 weeks after it hits the newstands....i love the new format btw, not sure what others think
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      04-29-2013, 07:48 PM   #10
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off to prostitute myself out...so I need about $143,000 so that's what 1000 fat chicks at $143 each? or 143 really fat chicks at $1000 each??!!
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      04-29-2013, 08:01 PM   #11
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as awesome as the pdk may be on a track, porsche should have offered a manual transmission standard on the gt3. they could of added features like downshift blips, and shift lights or something to fancy it up, and offered the pdk as an option.
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      04-29-2013, 09:41 PM   #12
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Amen. And Porsche's arrogance on this matter is more than a little disappointing.
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      04-29-2013, 10:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Make a Cayman GT3 with a manual and all will be forgiven.
Rumor is something like that may come out.... I've seen the new Cayman on the road and they are amazing.

And I'm actually glad Porsche has made the GT3 PDK-only. Reasons include:
1) I'll see more than one GT3 on the roads/decade
2) There are Porsche buyers who will only buy the top of the line and most expensive 911 so they will probably choose the GT3 as their primary car or even their trophy wife's car because it's an automatic. (Think BMW M3 and how many people buy it just to have the best 3er without actually knowing what they're buying and then end up hating it).
3) These types of buyers will hate the rawness of the car within a week and will sell within a month. This means more GT3s on the used car market and greater depreciation.
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      04-29-2013, 10:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
off to prostitute myself out...so I need about $143,000 so that's what 1000 fat chicks at $143 each? or 143 really fat chicks at $1000 each??!!
I'll join you...
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      04-29-2013, 10:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Speed? Yeah, it's marvelous, but doing it in an automatic is like sex with a rubber. Sure, it's kind of the same, but some of the feeling just isn't there.
Best description of the argument ever!
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      04-30-2013, 10:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I personally am praying to God that I get the opportunity to drive one of these bad-boy PDK GT3s. I really want to test the clutch kick feature out.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
"I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars, at Porsche's rain-dampened proving grounds the next day. "With the first GT3, they were practically throwing rocks at me because it didn't have an automated-manual transmission, which was where all the hype was at the time. But those transmissions weren't very good. Now, the GT3 gets a perfect [dual-clutch automatic], and everyone is screaming for the manual."

This pretty much sums up the idiocy of people today.

Get over it people, dct/pdk/etc is here to stay deal with it.

I love a manual as much as the next guy but we collectively asked for tech and now we got it.
As someone who converted from a 6MT M3 to an M3 DCT (comp pack) I can totally attest to the M3 being a much better car IMO with DCT. I know I gave up some engagement and interaction but the DCT just makes the car feel much more alive to me.

Porsche created the dual clutch transmission and has made so many adjustments and enhancements to the GT3's unit that I can only imagine how good its going to be...and seeing as how good it is in the 991 thats saying something.

I do think they should offer the 7 speed manual in the GT3 though but I imagine PDK here is that good not many would opt out of it. And again, everyone has wanted PDK in the GTx cars and now they got it.

I love manual as much as the next guy too, but the M3s manual compared that which Porsche offers was terrible and felt way too rubbery with clutch engagement that left a lot to be desired.

Last edited by Wolfinwolfsclothing; 04-30-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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      04-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #17
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Agree 1,000,000%

More often than not I go with auto-mode on my DCT, just is easier. And shifting myself isn't the same without a third pedal.
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      04-30-2013, 12:17 PM   #18
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I'm glad that R&T is coming out with this. I have driven an automatic corvette (grandpa's), a 93 cobra (my parents), and my own 07 Mustang (the latter two both being stick) and by far the latter two were much more fun. I couldn't agree with the article more, in the fact that there just isn't as satisfying of a feeling driving a "semi-manual" paddle shift car. In the vette at times you often feel like your in a normal car and that shouldn't happen in a car of that calibre. My parents are looking at a stick Cayman S and a stick 3-series for a variety of reasons, but a large part of it is because of how good and fun both BMW's and Porsche's manual transmissions are. Being a new driver, switching between my Mustang and an automatic car, there just isn't any fun associated with the auto. Regarding the GT3, I feel that for that money I would rather buy and aftermarket Gallardo, 360, 430, etc. the biggest appeal of the past GT3, is how pure of a driving car it was. It wasn't complicated or overloaded with computers, it was just a pure driving experience. I feel like the new one (which is fantastic looking) with the PDK molests that experience and purity. The PDK belongs on the Panamera but not the GT3.
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      04-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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A thought experiment...

What if DCTs came with a "stick" gear shifter along with a "clutch" pedal? The shifter would tell the DCT which gear to select and the pedal would be non-functional but give the driver the "feel" of clutching? Driving would be easier as every shift could be perfectly timed and would be perfectly executed, yet it would still be engaging for those expert in the use of a manual transmissions. Would this arrangement satisfy traditionalists? Can the engineers pull it off? Thoughts?
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      04-30-2013, 12:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williakz View Post
A thought experiment...

the pedal would be non-functional...

Would this arrangement satisfy traditionalists?


Hell no.
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      04-30-2013, 12:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post

Hell no.
OK, how about the "clutch" pedal operates to unlock the shift lever? No shift can occur until the pedal is depressed, then the DCT performs the requested shift. Or is this whole outcry really about CONTROL and has little to do with functionality or feel?
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      04-30-2013, 01:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williakz
A thought experiment...

What if DCTs came with a "stick" gear shifter along with a "clutch" pedal? The shifter would tell the DCT which gear to select and the pedal would be non-functional but give the driver the "feel" of clutching? Driving would be easier as every shift could be perfectly timed and would be perfectly executed, yet it would still be engaging for those expert in the use of a manual transmissions. Would this arrangement satisfy traditionalists? Can the engineers pull it off? Thoughts?
Being a die-hard manual person, your idea is a curious one. Dare I say it actually sounds pretty fun. I think that the concept is a improvement on the current generation of paddle shift cars. I think that the hybrid between the PDK and the manual would also be something that your elder and lazy audience would like. It would be nice if you could get the sound that PDK/single and dual clutch transmissions make when you down shift. Engineering it would be a formidable task, but then again we have engineered vehicles for space. Overall, I would definitely try your "new manual"; its definitely an idea.
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