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      03-13-2013, 01:20 AM   #1
nightrain
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Brembo BBK vibrate under heavy braking

Guys, so my brembo start to vibrate only when they are getting hot or after multiple heavy braking.. when they start to vibrate, even light brake make the steering wheel vibrate. i can feel it by the vibration on the steering wheel (the brake pedal doesnt vibrate though). It happens since the day i installed the bbk.. i have cleaned the hub to make sure that the rotors sit flat, i have also bed in the brakes as well... maybe i didnt bed the rotor properly ? the way i did was going from 100 kph to 40 kph for about 15 times. what else could be the cause ?

How can you tell when abs kick in ? is it something like grinding noise ? i want to make sure that i didnt engage the abs when i did the bedding in process.

i have searched the whole threads in the forum about this brake judder but still cant find a solution

this is what the rotor look like, pad deposit ? but i dont think it is pad deposit because i always cool down the brakes after spirited driving, and never been into track.


Last edited by nightrain; 03-13-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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      03-13-2013, 01:45 AM   #2
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What does the front rotor look like? The rear that you show shouldn't be an issue. Brembo pads do form pad deposits when they overheat at the track. Hard to imagine how one can overheat them on the street though. I still have vibration from my last track event but it is getting better. Next time racing pads. Stock brembo pads suck.
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      03-13-2013, 01:47 AM   #3
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Vibration

I use to have drilled rotors on my Brembo's and after a full day of tracking I would fill the holes w/ brake pad deposits and get vibrations on my steering wheel while driving. A good power wash to my rotors and the vibrations disappear. I wish someone else talk to me a lot sooner because I must have wasted $500 plus "four alignments" altogether thinking it was the problem. GL
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      03-13-2013, 01:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
What does the front rotor look like? The rear that you show shouldn't be an issue. Brembo pads do form pad deposits when they overheat at the track. Hard to imagine how one can overheat them on the street though. I still have vibration from my last track event but it is getting better. Next time racing pads. Stock brembo pads suck.
the picture above is the front brakes. Keep in mind these are the european spec brembo, it is slightly different hardware from you guys that have us spec brembo

What race pads do you recommend ? pagids ? but i have heard race pads dont do very well on the street, they have no "bites" when cold ?

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Originally Posted by jacobe92 View Post
I use to have drilled rotors on my Brembo's and after a full day of tracking I would fill the holes w/ brake pad deposits and get vibrations on my steering wheel while driving. A good power wash to my rotors and the vibrations disappear. I wish someone else talk to me a lot sooner because I must have wasted $500 plus "four alignments" altogether thinking it was the problem. GL
Power wash ?? do you mean hose the rotor down with water so they have rust on them and brake on them afterwards ?
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      03-13-2013, 02:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightrain View Post
the picture above is the front brakes. Keep in mind these are the european spec brembo, it is slightly different hardware from you guys that have us spec brembo

What race pads do you recommend ? pagids ? but i have heard race pads dont do very well on the street, they have no "bites" when cold ?
My bad. The fasteners look like the ones I have in the rear. Next time on the track I will use endless me20. Pagid rs29 or rs19 is really good too. I used them with stock brakes. Race pads are noisy. Race pads are a good way to get rid of deposits. Put them on for a week or so and they should clean up your discs from the stock deposits.
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      03-13-2013, 02:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
My bad. The fasteners look like the ones I have in the rear. Next time on the track I will use endless me20. Pagid rs29 or rs19 is really good too. I used them with stock brakes. Race pads are noisy. Race pads are a good way to get rid of deposits. Put them on for a week or so and they should clean up your discs from the stock deposits.
so if i use race pads just to scrub the pad deposit, do i have to re bed them or just drive normally ?
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      03-13-2013, 02:39 AM   #7
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Generally speaking, you shouldn't need racing pads on the street. But your problem does look like uneven pad deposits. I would contact your vendor and ask them what they can do to help you.

When ABS kicks in, you should feel a pulsation in your brake pedal.
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      03-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightrain View Post
Guys, so my brembo start to vibrate only when they are getting hot or after multiple heavy braking.. when they start to vibrate, even light brake make the steering wheel vibrate. i can feel it by the vibration on the steering wheel (the brake pedal doesnt vibrate though). It happens since the day i installed the bbk.. i have cleaned the hub to make sure that the rotors sit flat, i have also bed in the brakes as well... maybe i didnt bed the rotor properly ? the way i did was going from 100 kph to 40 kph for about 15 times. what else could be the cause ?

How can you tell when abs kick in ? is it something like grinding noise ? i want to make sure that i didnt engage the abs when i did the bedding in process.

i have searched the whole threads in the forum about this brake judder but still cant find a solution



this is what the rotor look like, pad deposit ? but i dont think it is pad deposit because i always cool down the brakes after spirited driving, and never been into track.






You said you have had this problem since the day you installed your Brembo BBK? I've got the same problem with my AP BBK. Tried everything including race pad clean up and still got the same vibe in the steering when braking. At what speeds do you feel this vibration? Can you be specific?
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      04-19-2013, 04:38 AM   #9
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sorry for the late reply, yes i have had the problem since the day i installed the bbk..

Here what i have experienced:

1. In the early morning, when i just start the car and driving in the freeway, there is no vibration at all when i apply the brake. But then, after few light brakes from cruising speed e.g 120 km/h to 80 km/h, the steering wheel start to vibrate.

2. The deeper i apply the brake, the vibration get worse, especially when slowing down from high speed.

3. Under medium braking from high speed, let's say 180 km/h to 80 km/h, the vibration get worse. After that, even a light brake at 80 km/h, the steering wheel vibrates pretty bad. When this happens, if i use little or no brake for about 5 minutes, the vibration become less.

4. Braking from 150 km/h to 100 km/h give me a little vibration, however at the second time i do this, the vibration becomes worse.
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      04-19-2013, 04:49 AM   #10
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here some more pictures, doesn't look like there are any pad deposits.

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      04-19-2013, 07:39 AM   #11
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As someone stated above try to power wash the brakes. You could have deposits and not see it. A water hose won't work........Phil
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      04-19-2013, 04:32 PM   #12
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I would try running some race pads for a while to scrub any pad deposits off of the rotors. IMO, that's what it has to be.
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      04-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #13
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I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
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      04-20-2013, 03:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
This.
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      04-20-2013, 07:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
Great point. This probably explains why later kits (like the US 365 and 380 kits) have fasteners that look like the attached image: no matter how hard you torque this fastener, the disc will still be able to float unobstructed. Also explains why BMW probably designed their own rotor for the GTS kit, which is essentially the euro M monobloc caliper.

I still think a race pad would be the first thing to try out. Stock brembo pads behave very similarly to the OEM stock pads: when they overheat they create deposits that eventually should go away with normal driving.
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      04-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #16
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you can attempt to rebed or not.....

if you rebed, it might solve the vibration same day..

if you choose to do nothing....the vibration will go away by itself.. give it a few days of normal driving.


you choose.....
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      04-29-2013, 12:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
As someone stated above try to power wash the brakes. You could have deposits and not see it. A water hose won't work........Phil
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Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I would try running some race pads for a while to scrub any pad deposits off of the rotors. IMO, that's what it has to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snook View Post
you can attempt to rebed or not.....

if you rebed, it might solve the vibration same day..

if you choose to do nothing....the vibration will go away by itself.. give it a few days of normal driving.


you choose.....
I still do not think it is pad deposit related because the judder ONLY happens when the brakes get hotter, when they are cold they never vibrate.. i also have emailed brembo couple of weeks back regarding this and still waiting for their comments..

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
Great point. This probably explains why later kits (like the US 365 and 380 kits) have fasteners that look like the attached image: no matter how hard you torque this fastener, the disc will still be able to float unobstructed. Also explains why BMW probably designed their own rotor for the GTS kit, which is essentially the euro M monobloc caliper.

I still think a race pad would be the first thing to try out. Stock brembo pads behave very similarly to the OEM stock pads: when they overheat they create deposits that eventually should go away with normal driving.
That is one possibility, but i have never disassembled the rotors from the hats so i am not sure if this is the case..
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      04-29-2013, 01:09 AM   #18
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Hey bro, brembo Europe sucks
I had the US spec brembo before, also I used the OEM GTS rotors before and now I have the Euro spec brembos, so I know all the difficulties and differences.
I made a Lot of experiences on street and on track since my car is a DD.
If I can help you Out shoot me a mail under my MSN or Skype contact since I have no PM rights here
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      04-29-2013, 05:55 AM   #19
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Hey bro, brembo Europe sucks
I had the US spec brembo before, also I used the OEM GTS rotors before and now I have the Euro spec brembos, so I know all the difficulties and differences.
I made a Lot of experiences on street and on track since my car is a DD.
If I can help you Out shoot me a mail under my MSN or Skype contact since I have no PM rights here
Hi, i will add your msn tonight, thanks before
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