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      04-10-2013, 12:53 PM   #1
mlhj83
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Sore subject - DSC off

Yes, I know it's been discussed many times, but you can't discuss safety too many times, especially with visual evidence of how good DSC/ESP is.

So for those who regularly drive on the road (not track) with DSC off and feel that that is the only way to learn about the car and be a better driver (or believe we have got by for decades with powerful cars before such systems existed) - please leave that for a quiet/familiar road or track - because if Tiff Needell and Steve Sutcliffe cannot beat/match DSC/ESP in an emergency situation (at regular speeds) where sudden manoeuvres are required, then almost everyone can't too.




Last edited by mlhj83; 04-10-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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      04-10-2013, 03:32 PM   #2
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Fantastic videos and suggestion! Safety (especially on public roads) first!!!
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      04-10-2013, 03:39 PM   #3
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He is driving a car way quicker then then a m3 ,But you have to consider an everyday situation, driving to the grocery store with dsc off isn't gonna throw the car into a reverse spin
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      04-10-2013, 03:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanweezy
He is driving a car way quicker then then a m3 ,But you have to consider an everyday situation, driving to the grocery store with dsc off isn't gonna throw the car into a reverse spin
How is 75mph way quicker than an M3 or any car for that matter? If anything, the Gallardo is a lot more stable given its chassis design and low centre of gravity compared to most other regular vehicles.

Also, why would you need to turn DSC off on the way to a grocery store? Unless of course it's a quiet back road that you are familiar with.

The videos are purely there to illustrate how top notch drivers can't beat DSC/ESP at regular speeds, which clearly means that the average driver or even the enthusiast/track day warrior should be weary of driving with DSC off on public roads when there are other cars or pedestrians around. As no matter how skilled you are, you cannot foresee and compensate for every situation in an uncontrolled environment.
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      04-10-2013, 03:55 PM   #5
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Why can't I drive with the dsc off? ^ it's not a death trap, it just simply turns everything off. It's exciting. Maybe when I drive the store I like to let the wheels spin a little bit. You are right about the 75 mph thing, I meant that as the systems of that car will be better than an m3 to deal with that situation
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      04-10-2013, 04:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanweezy
Why can't I drive with the dsc off? ^ it's not a death trap, it just simply turns everything off. It's exciting. Maybe when I drive the store I like to let the wheels spin a little bit. You are right about the 75 mph thing, I meant that as the systems of that car will be better than an m3 to deal with that situation
I'm sorry, but I think you have completely missed the point of the videos and my comments. A little fun here and there when it is relatively safe, is fine, but if one is regularly driving with it off on public roads with peeps and cars around, one is therefore intentionally removing an additional safety net that could potentially be life-saving, if an uncontrollable event occurred.

Last edited by mlhj83; 04-11-2013 at 04:11 AM.
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      04-10-2013, 04:13 PM   #7
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How is driving with it off any different then the mass of people driving cars without DSC in general at 70mph? I never turn it off just wondering.
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      04-10-2013, 04:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08
How is driving with it off any different then the mass of people driving cars without DSC in general at 70mph? I never turn it off just wondering.
No different of course, but the point is, if one has DSC, and if you are amongst pedestrians and cars, why risk an uncontrollable situation (regardless of skill). By all means, have fun when the time and place is right. But no one should be 'macho' and the videos above clearly show even top notch drivers cannot match stability systems at speeds that everyone does regularly. And I'm pretty certain those 2 drivers are more experienced then even the pro racing drivers here (no disrespect) - as far as I know, no one here is an ex-F1 driver or one that can match a F1 team test driver for lap time the first time out in a recent F1 car.

There is good reason why despite the rise in vehicle population in developed countries, collision rates have generally not gone in the same direction, despite increasingly powerful average cars - engineering and stability systems have a lot to do with it.

Last edited by mlhj83; 04-10-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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      04-10-2013, 06:26 PM   #9
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Moral of the story - if you turn off all the safety mechanisms and wreck your car because you thought you were a better driver than you actually are, it was probably preventable by leaving things alone, and the wreck is your own damn fault.

People used to bitch and moan about ABS the same way. Guessing none of you folks are looking for ways to disable ABS.
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      04-10-2013, 08:12 PM   #10
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Very interesting videos. Thanks for posting.
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      04-10-2013, 08:40 PM   #11
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I could drive this well if I have 4 brake pedals and could individually brake each wheel like DSC.
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      04-10-2013, 09:40 PM   #12
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Good video
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      04-10-2013, 09:40 PM   #13
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Just took my baby for a nice drive with DSC off....of course there were no cars around when I did it...a lot of fun
Thanks for posting the video!!! I would definitely leave it on in everyday scenario.
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      04-10-2013, 09:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
I could drive this well if I have 4 brake pedals and could individually brake each wheel like DSC.
i would like to see that. im impressed with how much safer cars are than 20 years ago.
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      04-11-2013, 03:01 AM   #15
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Back in the day none of the 911s or 911 turbos I owned had ABS or any form of stability control...so you had to drive within the abilities of the car and your ability to keep it out of the scenery. You drove from the first day with "DSC off", you adapted your driving accordingly and you slowly learnt what you could get away with.
While any experienced driver could drive the M3 safely with the DSC off given enough wheel time, the problem arises when a less experienced driver decides to give it a go and randomly switches off the DSC to have some fun.
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      04-11-2013, 03:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Back in the day none of the 911s or 911 turbos I owned had ABS or any form of stability control...so you had to drive within the abilities of the car and your ability to keep it out of the scenery. You drove from the first day with "DSC off", you adapted your driving accordingly and you slowly learnt what you could get away with.
While any experienced driver could drive the M3 safely with the DSC off given enough wheel time, the problem arises when a less experienced driver decides to give it a go and randomly switches off the DSC to have some fun.
Correct, but now that stability systems are available, it is prudent to leave it on for normal/regular driving, regardless of skill, as no matter how well one drives within his and the car's abilities, the public road is an uncontrolled environment and things can happen where all the skill, awareness and preparation, may not be enough to help.

Last edited by mlhj83; 04-11-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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      04-11-2013, 05:02 AM   #17
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DSC is an amazing advancement in cars today. Good vid. It's smart to keep it on in our cars today given the power they pull. DSC is there to rectify a panic maneuver that any driver (pro or not) may have little to no chance in correcting (as seen in 70 mph swerving video...). If you want to turn DSC completely off, save it for the track.
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      04-11-2013, 05:08 AM   #18
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Great videos!
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      04-11-2013, 05:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83 View Post
Correct, but now that stability systems are available, it is prudent to leave it on for normal/regular driving, regardless of skill, as no matter how well one drives within his and the car's abilities, the public road is an uncontrolled environment and things can happen where all the skill, awareness and preparation, may not be enough to help.
Its great that all new cars sold within the Euro zone must be fitted with stability control technology but I guess it will only be a matter of time before a system to deactivate it is removed as well.
I don't drive with DSC off...I can feel just how much work it is doing even when the light isn't flashing...but I do using M mode when the temps are warm and the roads are dry.
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      04-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
How is driving with it off any different then the mass of people driving cars without DSC in general at 70mph? I never turn it off just wondering.
The difference is that 95% of the cars driving at 75 mph are not 400+ HP cars. Also they are not RWD with tons of power. IMO the problem is not so much about the speed you are driving at with the DSC off, it more about the ability to put down sudden power to the wheels that spins the car out of control.

A prius, camry, civic, accord, kia, etc is going to have a far far less possibility of losing control when you stomp the gas compared to a E9X M3 with the DSC off.

If you have the technology, USE IT and save the DSC off for the track or a controlled environment.

You really never know when that DSC will come in handy. An emergency cam come up anytime, even when driving to the grocery store.

Here is something I posted 3 years ago............

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=342439

Last edited by dsm918; 04-11-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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      04-11-2013, 09:04 AM   #21
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On the road, at least use MDM or Euro MDM because you are playing with other's lives as well. DSC off- take it to the track IMHO.
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      04-11-2013, 09:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm918 View Post
The difference is that 95% of the cars driving at 75 mph are not 400+ HP cars. Also they are not RWD with tons of power. IMO the problem is not so much about the speed you are driving at with the DSC off, it more about the ability to put down sudden power to the wheels that spins the car out of control.

A prius, camry, civic, accord, kia, etc is going to have a far far less possibility of losing control when you stomp the gas compared to a E9X M3 with the DSC off.

If you have the technology, USE IT and save the DSC off for the track or a controlled environment.

You really never know when that DSC will come in handy. An emergency cam come up anytime, even when driving to the grocery store.

Here is something I posted 3 years ago............

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=342439
I didn't know he was flooring it while jerking the wheel.
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