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      04-06-2013, 09:25 AM   #23
RingMeister01
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This is a great thread. There must be a definitive answer to the simplest way to resolve understeer. Not having to replace the rear sway bar (PITA) would be great.
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      04-06-2013, 09:40 AM   #24
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I think most only offer the front bar because of potential customer issues. They will sell you a sway bar set for $500 and it will cost you $1500 or lots of pain to install it...for how much of a gain? I don't think any vendor wants to deal with angry phone calls since most will likely assume its a quick bolt on install (not a terrible assumption either).

Call me cynical but most will offer a front sway bar because they know people buy stuff because...its aftermarket although it provides a neglible benefit. IMO, sway bars are the last thing you should add. Need to get the setup as close to where you want it as possible and THEN add sways.

Some body roll is good and necessary. You can reduce the roll issue if you have EDC with a press of the button if you think its such a problem.
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      04-06-2013, 12:49 PM   #25
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To be clear, the only reason I went with a front bar was because I want to stay with stock springs. Once you start changing springs the bar becomes what it should be: a tool for fine tuning balance once you get your spring rates close to perfect. But if you are sticking with the stock springs, they are soft enough that they need some help keeping the front suspension in its happy place even if you add camber plates

There is no reason to add a bigger rear bar on these cars in my opinion
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      04-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
To be clear, the only reason I went with a front bar was because I want to stay with stock springs. Once you start changing springs the bar becomes what it should be: a tool for fine tuning balance once you get your spring rates close to perfect. But if you are sticking with the stock springs, they are soft enough that they need some help keeping the front suspension in its happy place even if you add camber plates

There is no reason to add a bigger rear bar on these cars in my opinion
Good point. I wonder how much more spring rate my dinan stage 1 is vs OEM ZCP. Probably not much from riding in my buddy's ZCP E90. I went with Dinan springs, track, add Dinan sway bar, track. Honestly I didn't even notice a difference...with the springs or the bar. Basically I wasted $1100 on Dinan crap.

One problem is any slow/quick transition or hairpin type turn. The fix is easy, slide the bitch around. The other problem is those really fast sweepers. The fix would be slide the bitch around but I'm not quite willing to do that at 100+ MPH.

If I had to do it again...just BBK, Vorshlag plates and square wheels/tires. Done.
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      04-06-2013, 06:01 PM   #27
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+1 about a great thread. I had decided to go with the RD Sport front bar because of the adjustability, but for some reason my email to them failed twice. Checked the address a couple times. Must be a sign, so I have come to the conclusion to spend the money on the driver. More autox and tracks for me. I will pull the pins to get the most camber and play with tires. Has anyone tried PSS 255/265 tires on ZCP wheels/suspension to reduce understeer? I did a quick search and did not find anything. Thanks all for the information!
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      04-07-2013, 10:35 PM   #28
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Rhmmm I wouldn't say sways are a waste lol

I've had sways on both my ex E36 and E46 and each time they made a noticeable and welcome improvement. I always find it beneficial to tune the car's tendency to oversteer/understeer to my liking.

Following up on the Eibach bars, I just had a pre-production prototype set installed on my E92 and I'm really looking forward to testing them out this weekend.

I currently have GC camber plates and Eibach springs on stock dampers. Running a square 275 street tire setup. Unlike most I find the car more stable with a staggered 265/285 (all other things equal). I'm comfortable and love getting sideways but I feel I'm leaving a bit of time on the table oversteering too much.

Again it comes down to one's driving style and setup but I don't believe in a one size fits all suspension setup. I plan on dialing down the oversteer to get the car more neutral to my personal liking... which is exactly what the adjustable sways will allow me to do.
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      04-08-2013, 12:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Rhmmm I wouldn't say sways are a waste lol

I've had sways on both my ex E36 and E46 and each time they made a noticeable and welcome improvement. I always find it beneficial to tune the car's tendency to oversteer/understeer to my liking.

Following up on the Eibach bars, I just had a pre-production prototype set installed on my E92 and I'm really looking forward to testing them out this weekend.

I currently have GC camber plates and Eibach springs on stock dampers. Running a square 275 street tire setup. Unlike most I find the car more stable with a staggered 265/285 (all other things equal). I'm comfortable and love getting sideways but I feel I'm leaving a bit of time on the table oversteering too much.

Again it comes down to one's driving style and setup but I don't believe in a one size fits all suspension setup. I plan on dialing down the oversteer to get the car more neutral to my personal liking... which is exactly what the adjustable sways will allow me to do.
Sways are not a waste on E36 and E46 cars as the front suspension design is completely different as these cars are very prone to massive camber roll off, something the front of the E9x does not exhibit nearly as much.

Sway bars on the E9x chassis are not that beneficial, and for those wondering, a stiffer front bar will REDUCE the front end grip. It may feel like it is handling better due to less roll, but it is false confidence. The stock sways do a great job. Camber plates, higher spring rates and wider rubber up front does a much better job on this car than a larger sway bar does. As someone else mentioned, the new bar should only be used to fine tune the chassis dynamics when everything else has been dialed in a bit better. If reducing body roll for auto cross type events is desired, then a thicker sway bar will help with this to an extent, but it can also reduce mechanical grip at the limit.
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      04-08-2013, 02:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotik182 View Post
+1 about a great thread. I had decided to go with the RD Sport front bar because of the adjustability, but for some reason my email to them failed twice. Checked the address a couple times. Must be a sign, so I have come to the conclusion to spend the money on the driver. More autox and tracks for me. I will pull the pins to get the most camber and play with tires. Has anyone tried PSS 255/265 tires on ZCP wheels/suspension to reduce understeer? I did a quick search and did not find anything. Thanks all for the information!
Communication with RDSport was a challenge for me too, took a while since I had to go to them directly to buy front only instead of the pair
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      04-09-2013, 04:24 PM   #31
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Stock springs, 295/315/30-18 Hoosier A6's, RDSport front bar on stiffest holes, and MCS 2-ways gets you approximately this many body rolls. Since I have to use stock springs, my car would be cornering on the outside shoulder of the lug nuts if I didn't have the front bar with these tires
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      04-09-2013, 08:30 PM   #32
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Remember...the OP is on stock dampers.
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      04-09-2013, 11:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Remember...the OP is on stock dampers.
I'm on stock dampers too

With that said if his car is stock then I wouldn't recommend it. There are better mods to do first.
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      04-10-2013, 01:09 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Stock springs, 295/315/30-18 Hoosier A6's, RDSport front bar on stiffest holes, and MCS 2-ways gets you approximately this many body rolls. Since I have to use stock springs, my car would be cornering on the outside shoulder of the lug nuts if I didn't have the front bar with these tires
You don't need sway bars. Come talk to me when your car is like this...



Now you need sway bars.

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      04-10-2013, 01:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I'm on stock dampers too

With that said if his car is stock then I wouldn't recommend it. There are better mods to do first.
Exactly.
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      04-10-2013, 06:46 PM   #36
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So lets here some suggestions with a stock setup...
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      04-11-2013, 03:29 PM   #37
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My suggestion would not change with stock dampers. I had the RD Sport bar before the MCS dampers and would do it again if I was setting up a car on stock springs
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      04-15-2013, 07:54 AM   #38
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I just installed the Turner Motorsports sold camber plates and an H&R sway bar to go with Eibach springs and stock EDC. I have to get an alignment, so I haven't pushed the car. I am at a NHMS track day next week. I'll report back.

I went with just the front after chatting with a Turner engineer about the mods they did to the LRP M3 they were testing at LRP (I haven't seen the roundel article, but I guessing this was the same day). I was surprised that they only fitted a front bar considering they have essentially unlimited time and resource to put these things on - but they said they were happy with just the front bar.

From what I have read and "chatted" about. A sway bar without additional camber isn't going to do a lot for you...so it works both ways...it isn't going to do a lot negative either!
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      04-15-2013, 08:00 PM   #39
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As has been posted, I agree a stiffer front bar will more likely increase understeer than reduce it. I'm in the Vorshlag plates, square setup, BBK and done camp. Getting square 275s mounted on track wheels right now.
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      10-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #40
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Can someone point me to this Roundel article?
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      10-12-2013, 09:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Can someone point me to this Roundel article?
It's the March 2013 issue. Section is called Orange Aid.
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