BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > Regional Forums > Europe (Continental)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-16-2013, 08:16 AM   #45
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

i think the suspension is not the weak point of the E9X M3. its actually very good for progressive rate. the EDC shocks are really sharp. by far, the brakes are the weakest point of this car and its heft. in order to really be quick you have to be confident and the one aspect if any you want to be 110% confident in on the car is the brakes.

as far as a verified setting for triple adjustable suspension i don't believe it for a second. i'm sure you friend is running a very different tire from you and the car might even be more rigid and certainly a good deal lighter. so unless you built the same car and have the exact same line then his suspension setting is not going mean anything. the only way to get tangible results is to test drive the car and taking measurements that prove the shock settings are in fact improving usable grip and resulting in higher corner entry and higher exit speed. i think even then a lot of that can be in your head. just by thinking the car is more capable you are more confident and push harder. its the placebo affect.

the shock settings are also only part of the equation with coilovers. the biggest effect i see on usable grip is the spring rate. for one thing progressives are a compromise. too soft initially and possibly too firm when fully loaded. i think a linear spring is far more useful. however you get into a very long drawn out process of picking the right compression rate of the spring for the car and the particular track. this is why most manufactures just make more settings on shocks and stick to a progressive rate spring.

in my personal experience with an E46 M3. i had TC Kline dual adjustable coil overs. one of my best friends at the time also had the same car same tires and same suspension. we would spend quite a bit of time after a lap with a log book of settings we tried and lap times and we narrowed down what our preferred settings were. my settings were completely opposite of my friends and our lap times were within a second of each other. looking back now, i think if i just went to little firmer springs on the E46 i think i would have had the exact same time again without wasting $3000 and half my day writing down settings.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #46
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

wheel size i recommend using square setup and supplement with spacers as you prefer. square will net you two things. you eliminate some of the understeer and makes the car more neutral. secondly you can rotate tires front to back extending usable life of your tires and saving some money. on the e90 i have been using 275's front and back on a 19" wheel. why 19". simply because i like how they look. 18" work fine and little cheaper on tire costs. i went with a 3 piece forged wheel from forge line. its race proven and very strong wheel. little heavier but definitely can take a beating.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 09:19 AM   #47
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

enjoy the ring guys. last weekend was my last trip this year most likely. i'm moving back stateside. i hope to return in the spring for some laps and then to drive in next years 24H race. working something special for that. will keep you posted here.

to any us service members dod civilians and contractors, thanks for your service. respect for every one of you. it was a pleasure to meet so many people from around the globe at the ring and have some fun rides, good times.

my advice to anyone new to the nurburgring and even some veterans is to always remember to respect the track. always have an escape plan and leave a little margin for error or unexpected results. it is just for fun after all. stay safe. you win when you can come home shiny side up.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-17-2013, 07:44 AM   #48
335igawnM3
Private
 
335igawnM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Back to suspension if I may, sway bars; any input on them? My plan for next season is pads and fluid. I thought about ZCP springs but from what I learned from you karussell, I may pass on them and keep the oem springs for now. My question is I notice sway bars aren't popular with the M3 e9X however, I've been told they are used for "fine tuning" the suspension (assuming aftermarket suspension). What's your take on sway bars and can it be an worth while purchase to use with oem suspension? I learned how good the oem suspension is so my money is going towards more track time and possible driving school. I just have this itch with sway bars that needs to be scratched...
335igawnM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-17-2013, 10:12 AM   #49
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335igawnM3 View Post
Back to suspension if I may, sway bars; any input on them? My plan for next season is pads and fluid. I thought about ZCP springs but from what I learned from you karussell, I may pass on them and keep the oem springs for now. My question is I notice sway bars aren't popular with the M3 e9X however, I've been told they are used for "fine tuning" the suspension (assuming aftermarket suspension). What's your take on sway bars and can it be an worth while purchase to use with oem suspension? I learned how good the oem suspension is so my money is going towards more track time and possible driving school. I just have this itch with sway bars that needs to be scratched...
ok so just like any other suspension component its entirely dependent on the condition its applied in.

A suspension's job is to maintain maximum tire contact with the road. An independent suspension allows the left and right wheels to do that job separately. This is crucial on rough tracks. A sway bar artificially increases your spring rate but the take away is it also lessens that independence.

Going to a stiffer sway bar on a rough track such as the ring may have some negative consequences like making your car want to snap oversteer when you hit a berm such as in hatzenbach on the right.

the oem sway bars are adequate i think for the ring. if you want to scratch the itch and just want a pretty red bar, then i suggest you pick the softest setting.

now if you want something that is useable my advice would be ground control's coil over conversion kit. they use the oem shocks if you have edc. you can pick the spring rate. its linear eibach springs which is great. make sure to tell them you are running the nurburgring so they pick out the appropriate spring rate. you don't want them too stiff. the best part is you get ride height adjustment independently on each wheel. you MUST get the car corner balanced after getting these. that will be the most significant change you will feel in the seat of your pants with a properly matched spring and corner balanced. when you feel the car is planted firmly you are more confident in it.

again, if you are worried about any suspension components then you already should have upgraded the brakes. that means 2/3 in a lap on the ring your pedal is already mushy and going to the floor or 15 minutes into a single 20 minute session on the gp track. if your brakes haven't done that yet, you aren't going fast enough yet and the suspension is definitely not hindering you any.

of course this doesn't mean you need to go out and try to abuse the brakes. i'm talking a legitimate lap and you routinely have to wait for the brakes to cool in order to use the car again. at that point you are ready to upgrade just the brakes. after that pick the tires you plan to track with. i could write pages on tires too. once you got your preferred tires and brakes settled and you have tried everything possible to improve your lap time (by technique) but can't get past it then i suggest you have a coach. after that and you still can't get any more out of the car then you touch the suspension. that is how good i think the oem suspension is on the ring. remember that suspension was developed on that track by BMW engineers with over 25 years experience on M3's.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-18-2013, 04:45 AM   #50
335igawnM3
Private
 
335igawnM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Well I'm convinced. OEM is the way to go for a car developed on the 'ring'. I'll stick to pads and brake fluid for now. What kind of fluid do you recommend?
335igawnM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2013, 06:10 AM   #51
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335igawnM3 View Post
Well I'm convinced. OEM is the way to go for a car developed on the 'ring'. I'll stick to pads and brake fluid for now. What kind of fluid do you recommend?
only fluid i ever use in any of my car is Castrol SRF. its a little pricey, but has the highest wet boiling point out there.

the auto parts shop in graf can order it and takes a vat form. comes out to about same price as i get it stateside. about 50€ with VAT for 1L. you can flush the entire system with 1L but if you really want to make sure you can use part of a second bottle. just remember not to keep unused brake fluid. get rid of it. it absorbs water over time making it useless. if you can find a friend also wanting the best fluid, go in with them and get 3 bottles. to use between the two of you.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #52
My Schnell
Private First Class
 
My Schnell's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 ///M3 SG Fox Red 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Mexico

Posts: 112
iTrader: (1)

Making my last trip of the season tomorrow, Sunday 13 Oct. Anyone else planning on going?
__________________
2009 E90 ///M3 SG Fox Red 6MT, AA X-pipe w/HFCs w/Eisenmann Sport, Dinan intake, AA Pulley, ZCP strut retro w/Dinan Stage III susp, BPM Stage II tune, Rear Fog LCI switch, BMW Edition Front & Side Grill/Gill, Smoked Reflectors, Black 19" ZCPs and AiB v4-Now, Not Wife approved!!
My Schnell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2013, 03:21 PM   #53
335igawnM3
Private
 
335igawnM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

I'll be there!
335igawnM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-13-2013, 12:07 AM   #54
My Schnell
Private First Class
 
My Schnell's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 ///M3 SG Fox Red 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Mexico

Posts: 112
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335igawnM3 View Post
I'll be there!

See ya up there. I'll be there between 9:30- 10:00
__________________
2009 E90 ///M3 SG Fox Red 6MT, AA X-pipe w/HFCs w/Eisenmann Sport, Dinan intake, AA Pulley, ZCP strut retro w/Dinan Stage III susp, BPM Stage II tune, Rear Fog LCI switch, BMW Edition Front & Side Grill/Gill, Smoked Reflectors, Black 19" ZCPs and AiB v4-Now, Not Wife approved!!
My Schnell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #55
krx927
Private
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Western Europe

Posts: 53
iTrader: (0)

Anybody coming for the last days in this year 1-3 November? I will be there all 3 days )))))))
krx927 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 10:27 AM   #56
335igawnM3
Private
 
335igawnM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

I have snow tires on ready for winter
335igawnM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-19-2013, 08:36 AM   #57
krx927
Private
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Western Europe

Posts: 53
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335igawnM3 View Post
I have snow tires on ready for winter

You did not miss anything. 3 days of almost constant rain. I only managed to get 2 dry laps. On wet it was slippery like hell, so I was just tip toeing around.

But I did get the ride on Ring Racer, what an acceleration!
krx927 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-21-2013, 11:13 AM   #58
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by krx927 View Post
You did not miss anything. 3 days of almost constant rain. I only managed to get 2 dry laps. On wet it was slippery like hell, so I was just tip toeing around.

But I did get the ride on Ring Racer, what an acceleration!
its finally open?!?
damn only took 5 years!
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-19-2013, 05:37 AM   #59
krx927
Private
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Western Europe

Posts: 53
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
its finally open?!?
damn only took 5 years!
Yes it is open! I really took them 5 years.
The acceleration is great, not much more - one loop and that's almost all. The only issue was the waiting to get on the ride, around 45 mins. And there were even not that many people visiting RingWerk...
krx927 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-19-2013, 09:07 AM   #60
karussell
Major
 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA

Posts: 1,164
iTrader: (1)

they should have forgone ringwerk, the stupid empty casino, useless museum (old one was great!), empty movie theater, boring kart track and just used that money to build the worlds longest roller coaster track alongside the ring and then a proper parking deck at the touristfarhten entrance where the big field used for overflow parking is. add in an actual car parts shop that is open 7 days a week and its perfect. i should be president of the ring. i would fix it up in a jiffy.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
karussell is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-14-2014, 10:16 AM   #61
krx927
Private
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Western Europe

Posts: 53
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
they should have forgone ringwerk, the stupid empty casino, useless museum (old one was great!), empty movie theater, boring kart track and just used that money to build the worlds longest roller coaster track alongside the ring and then a proper parking deck at the touristfarhten entrance where the big field used for overflow parking is. add in an actual car parts shop that is open 7 days a week and its perfect. i should be president of the ring. i would fix it up in a jiffy.
krx927 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2014, 02:44 AM   #62
S65 Underdog
Banned
 
Drives: a functional car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ..........

Posts: 165
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by krx927 View Post
I will be there on the 3rd of May, hope you can be there. I wouldn't mind learning a thing or two from a real amateur.
S65 Underdog is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST