BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Lux Angel Eyes
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-26-2013, 07:57 PM   #1
M3takesNYC
Banned
 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

Posts: 426
iTrader: (0)

Who has no traction in first? Mod vs non

Well as I got the last piece to my FBO DCT, I have essentially lost 1st gear as there is no traction to be had anywhere, with almost new tires and nice warm weather. Whether its from a dead stop or a slight roll, the traction control lights up automatically.

Definetly was not the case stock.

Who else has essentially lost 1st gear due to bolt ons?

Can't imagine a supercharger. You clearly lose 1st and probably 2nd. So in essense you end up using 3rd much more I would imagine but unless doing 70 plus miles per hour, you could simply use 2nd with FBO and probably put down the same power to the ground as a SC in 3rd.
M3takesNYC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 07:58 PM   #2
Sandye90m3
Captain
 
Sandye90m3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 774
iTrader: (0)

Might be a sign for wider tires/rims
__________________
M3.e90 JZB blacked out.coded.TurnerTestPipes
Sandye90m3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 08:16 PM   #3
chris s
Major General
 
chris s's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York

Posts: 5,374
iTrader: (8)

you consider this warm weather in NY?
__________________

2012 MR e92 M3 DCT, fully loaded... ESS VT2-625, Brembo 380, BBS FI's, Akra/Challenge Sport, KW Sleeve kit, Full OEM CF Interior
2008 e92 M3 Coupe 6MT | AW/BLK Extended...SOLD!
chris s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 08:53 PM   #4
M3takesNYC
Banned
 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

Posts: 426
iTrader: (0)

Not in newyork this year
M3takesNYC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 08:59 PM   #5
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,565
iTrader: (0)

Pretty bad post bolt ons especially while trying to launch... +20-25 hp makes a pretty big difference traction wise.
FogCityM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #6
05Mdriver
Lieutenant Colonel
 
05Mdriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 414hp Sedan
Join Date: May 2010
Location: pa

Posts: 1,668
iTrader: (55)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
2005 BMW M3  [5.00]
I lose traction in 2nd let alone 1st.. ! Its was about 45 degrees though.
__________________
05Mdriver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 09:26 PM   #7
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 12,365
iTrader: (5)

try using the available grip instead of seeing if you can exceed it.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #8
track_warrior
Captain
 
track_warrior's Avatar
 
Drives: F-31 328d M-Performance
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posts: 696
iTrader: (1)

So what exactly is considered a full bolt-on m3?
__________________
l 2014 F31 328d X-drive M-sport l 2014 F30 328d M-Sport l BMW F-800 GSA l 1997 E-420 Sport l 2014 Touareg Tdi Armoured Level B5 l


Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
track_warrior is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 10:10 PM   #9
exmowner
Captain
 
exmowner's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 M3\\\
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montreal

Posts: 956
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
try using the available grip instead of seeing if you can exceed it.
exmowner is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2013, 10:22 PM   #10
Mike Benvo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Mike Benvo's Avatar
 
Drives: Harrop SC M3 / E46 M3 / 7Turbo
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,697
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
No traction in first most of the time..
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Mike Benvo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2013, 12:23 AM   #11
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 12,365
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post
You mean breaking traction and being fast are mutually exclusive?
sorta. are we doing burnouts in front of the high school or actually trying to get somewhere quickly? i have plenty of traction its controlled with my foot.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2013, 12:40 AM   #12
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 12,365
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post
I think my sarcasm may have been lost there, we are fundamentally in agreement.

It seems some equate burning tires with going fast. The intent should be to go as fast as possible without burning the tires.
oh i got it i was agreeing with you and making some fun of others. these threads always make me laugh. i cant seem to get front traction when i go into a 90 degree corner at 100 with full lock, weird.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2013, 12:50 AM   #13
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 12,365
iTrader: (5)

do bugattis all have zero miles?
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2013, 12:52 AM   #14
Transfer
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Transfer's Avatar
 
Drives: SQ5, X1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 1,676
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
sorta. are we doing burnouts in front of the high school or actually trying to get somewhere quickly? i have plenty of traction its controlled with my foot.


Transfer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 01:58 AM   #15
Peahi
Captain
 
Peahi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 M3 CPE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

Posts: 671
iTrader: (0)

You have upset the intergalactic balance.
__________________
Peahi is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 05:00 AM   #16
LarThaL
Colonel
 
LarThaL's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

Posts: 2,595
iTrader: (0)

This is the achilles heel of the M3. It needs wider rubber at baseline, even in stock form. However, even there there are compromises.

Wider tires will give better traction but will also increase weight, rolling noise, and diminish steering feel/responsiveness slightly. If you increase width on only the rear, you will have to accept slightly more understeer.

All said, however, I think the M3 should have 245/285 as stock sizes. Too bad that the best street tire out there, the Michelin PSS, doesn't come in the needed 285/30 size.

This is why I have to laugh a little when I think about the M5.... a front engine RWD car putting down over 500lb-ft to just the rear wheel on tires that are puny for the car/power. You can break traction until about 100mph. What is the point of all that power if you just can't get it to the ground? This of course, makes the case for AWD, however, in that configuration, steering feel and responsiveness is definitely reduced. Only cars with rear and mid-engine designs have been able to produce AWD cars while retaining real precision steering feel. The one noted exception is the Porsche Panamera. I would love to know how Porsche manages to design their front engine AWD car to still maintain such good steering feel and precision.
__________________
Precision tool: 2011 BMW ///M3
Sledgehammer: 2014 Audi S6


Last edited by LarThaL; 03-28-2013 at 05:09 AM.
LarThaL is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 05:17 AM   #17
SROC5
Addicted to Track
 
SROC5's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

Posts: 1,601
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post


yes, nice one
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
SROC5 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 06:58 AM   #18
CanAutM3
Brigadier General
 
CanAutM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

Posts: 3,956
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.75]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
This is the achilles heel of the M3. It needs wider rubber at baseline, even in stock form. However, even there there are compromises.

Wider tires will give better traction but will also increase weight, rolling noise, and diminish steering feel/responsiveness slightly. If you increase width on only the rear, you will have to accept slightly more understeer.

All said, however, I think the M3 should have 245/285 as stock sizes. Too bad that the best street tire out there, the Michelin PSS, doesn't come in the needed 285/30 size.

This is why I have to laugh a little when I think about the M5.... a front engine RWD car putting down over 500lb-ft to just the rear wheel on tires that are puny for the car/power. You can break traction until about 100mph. What is the point of all that power if you just can't get it to the ground? This of course, makes the case for AWD, however, in that configuration, steering feel and responsiveness is definitely reduced. Only cars with rear and mid-engine designs have been able to produce AWD cars while retaining real precision steering feel. The one noted exception is the Porsche Panamera. I would love to know how Porsche manages to design their front engine AWD car to still maintain such good steering feel and precision.
A wider tire will not necessarily (read most likely not) increase longitudinal traction...

Further, IMO, a 245-285 setup would make the M3 an understeering pig. The M3 is actually better balanced with a square set-up.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 03-28-2013 at 08:12 AM.
CanAutM3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 07:20 AM   #19
brava09
Captain
 
Drives: '11 Audi RS5
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Europe

Posts: 714
iTrader: (0)

A new set of PSS for the rears solved the 1st and 2nd gear traction for me, though my car is stock
__________________
11 Audi RS5 Misano Red
08 E92 M3 Jerez Black 6MT--sold
08 E92 335i 6MT traded in for M3
brava09 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #20
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 12,365
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
A wider tire will not necessarily (read most likely not) increase longitudinal traction...

Further, IMO, a 245-285 setup would make the M3 an understeering pig. The M3 is actually better balanced with a square set-up.
much better i got it close to neutral with square and camber. made the car much better on entry and midcorner.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2013, 11:03 AM   #21
m3andygard
Registered
 
Drives: E46 M3, AP Racing, PSS9, Cup's
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK

Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)

traction

I have an e46M3 with RTAB replaced and it will loose that little bit if compliance that then promotes loss of traction.

One moving its good though.

see my vid

m3andygard is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST