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      07-18-2013, 11:04 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Thank you. It equalled my best lap times in my e90 at my 2 local tracks its first time out. So should be quicker with a little more familiarity.
Do you think that's due to the new car (& its setup), or with your driving now being at a certain level?
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      07-18-2013, 11:06 PM   #288
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Do you think that's due to the new car (& its setup), or with your driving now being at a certain level?
i would have to say its due to the car and set up. Biggest difference is the suspension and weight. I have same size wheels and tires with more camber and mcs instead of stock. very much a different beast than a comparitivly stock e90. i doubt my driving skill improved during the 3 month lay off with only 1 track day in a z06. I did spend some of my off time reading various books about driving and car set up.
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      07-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #289
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the E46 is easier to drive and is more civil. The e9x is more of a handful but, as the platform is developed more...it will be stupid fast.
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      07-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
the E46 is easier to drive and is more civil. The e9x is more of a handful but, as the platform is developed more...it will be stupid fast.
I haven't seen it to be easier yet. But my e46 is more developed towards a track car then my e90 was. I'm hoping for stupid fast at some pt.

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      07-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #291
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you've got one part...its not the fast. lmao!
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      07-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
you've got one part...its not the fast. lmao!
you may be right sir!
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      07-19-2013, 05:37 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
i would have to say its due to the car and set up. Biggest difference is the suspension and weight. I have same size wheels and tires with more camber and mcs instead of stock. very much a different beast than a comparitivly stock e90. i doubt my driving skill improved during the 3 month lay off with only 1 track day in a z06. I did spend some of my off time reading various books about driving and car set up.
I would second that it is the car. I had the same experience that you did with my "developed" E46 M3 coming from a stock E92 M3. The biggest diff is the weight, then the developed suspension.....plus running the same wheel and tire. You just have more grip. I had a DCT and had to learn to heal toe on the e46 M3 and was still 6 seconds faster the first time it ever hit the track. (Pacific Raceways, The Ridge and 4 sec at Portland International Raceway). Keep in mind that a person is just coming to grips with the new car.......unless you are a Pro driver you are not able to extract 100% of the car the first time out. In the short term I can see dropping at least a second or two at each track.
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      07-19-2013, 05:53 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I would second that it is the car. I had the same experience that you did with my "developed" E46 M3 coming from a stock E92 M3. The biggest diff is the weight, then the developed suspension.....plus running the same wheel and tire. You just have more grip. I had a DCT and had to learn to heal toe on the e46 M3 and was still 6 seconds faster the first time it ever hit the track. (Pacific Raceways, The Ridge and 4 sec at Portland International Raceway). Keep in mind that a person is just coming to grips with the new car.......unless you are a Pro driver you are not able to extract 100% of the car the first time out. In the short term I can see dropping at least a second or two at each track.
I would agree with that assesment. I'm thinking I will pick up slightly more time at the ridge because I have less experience there. I felt more uncomfortable actually at pacific though because of the track surface itself. Before I didn't notice with my e90 floating around like a cadilac.
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      07-19-2013, 06:49 PM   #295
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Looks great, I still miss my old E46 as well. But love and have no complaints with the E92.
Looking forward to more updates.
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      07-20-2013, 09:56 AM   #296
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I think we are all realizing the E46 and E9x M3s are very different cars.
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      07-20-2013, 09:57 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
you've got one part...its not the fast. lmao!
you may be right sir!
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      07-20-2013, 09:59 AM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
you've got one part...its not the fast. lmao!
crazy helps until you get fast as you can attest to also.
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      07-20-2013, 02:45 PM   #299
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car should be getting cage this week no photos yet. here is a little project at home. car is ti silver so did the nitto logos to match.
Car is looking epic!
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      07-21-2013, 10:06 AM   #300
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I have seen the OPs car up on the rack and believe many of his suspension mods are similar to mine but not exact. My car is fast driven poorly........but 4 seconds faster driven correctly. It requires that all your inputs are precise but quick and deliberate. I don't know if your car drives this way or not.......maybe just to a lesser extent.
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      07-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I have seen the OPs car up on the rack and believe many of his suspension mods are similar to mine but not exact. My car is fast driven poorly........but 4 seconds faster driven correctly. It requires that all your inputs are precise but quick and deliberate. I don't know if your car drives this way or not.......maybe just to a lesser extent.
i was told last track day by someone following in a z06 that it looks like im going straight then boom i turn all at once. their impression was that i needed to bend it into the turn gradually but seem to feel like quick and deliberate with this car is the quick way around.
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      07-21-2013, 01:45 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
i was told last track day by someone following in a z06 that it looks like im going straight then boom i turn all at once. their impression was that i needed to bend it into the turn gradually but seem to feel like quick and deliberate with this car is the quick way around.
Correct but it depends. Think of the traction circle...

Generally as you get faster you can start "bending" the car around the turn. Basically what happens is you turn in a little earlier carrying more speed. You are rotating the car with steering input but you are also using the slip in the rear tires to rotate the back end around. In the end you will use less steering input as well. So you MUST stay on the throttle and maintain the slip in the rear tires. Otherwise you run out of track like you normally would on an early turn in. Basically its using throttle and steering the car with the back wheels. I do mess it up a bit...hence all of my "drifts".

I do turn in a touch early on faster sweepers and off camber turns. I would not "bend" the car around tighter turns, entering chicanes and switchbacks, and most places where you need to trail brake.

But...this is a pretty advanced skill. You really need to have impeccable car control and decision making skills because you will mess up.
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      07-21-2013, 03:12 PM   #303
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i think what i am feeling and seeing is the difference in immediacy between the two cars. in the e90 on stock edc suspension i was faster than the car and had to wait for it to do what it needed to do to set in a turn. now as soon as i do anything its done. depending on the turn i either rotate the car under trailbraking and steering input or throttle and steering. sometimes both. At times i feel like im working the nt01s a little much with too much slip. im seeing peak lateral in the high 1.8g region at times and 1.5g often.
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      07-21-2013, 03:43 PM   #304
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The steering on the E46 is lighter and faster. I agree, I tend to be a little abrupt on my first session out in my E46.

More steering input scrubs more speed AND you can't give it as much throttle. Basically the theory is the more you can turn the car with throttle, the faster as long as you stay on the outer limit of the traction circle. So earlier turn in with less steering input while keeping all 4 tires as close to their optimal slip angle will be the fastest way around a corner.

I build my line and turn in points around that which usually puts me turning in much earlier than almost all intermediate and most advanced drivers.
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      07-21-2013, 04:03 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The steering on the E46 is lighter and faster. I agree, I tend to be a little abrupt on my first session out in my E46.

More steering input scrubs more speed AND you can't give it as much throttle. Basically the theory is the more you can turn the car with throttle, the faster as long as you stay on the outer limit of the traction circle. So earlier turn in with less steering input while keeping all 4 tires as close to their optimal slip angle will be the fastest way around a corner.

I build my line and turn in points around that which usually puts me turning in much earlier than almost all intermediate and most advanced drivers.
i have work to do!
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      07-21-2013, 11:32 PM   #306
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The down side to the E9x M3 is its weight.......and that very few people have the stomach to strip it down to a respectable weight. Plus it has all the stock bushes and engine/trans/diff/subframe mounts. The beauty of the E46 M3 is that a person can make it light and replace all the stock bushes and mounts. I counted 39 on my car. With 1000lb. front springs it is a precision instrument. You don't have to wait for the suspension to settle...........as a matter of fact you have to speed up all your inputs. I also have aero and a $4300 diff that changes things.
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      07-23-2013, 02:22 PM   #307
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Quote:
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The down side to the E9x M3 is its weight.......and that very few people have the stomach to strip it down to a respectable weight. Plus it has all the stock bushes and engine/trans/diff/subframe mounts. The beauty of the E46 M3 is that a person can make it light and replace all the stock bushes and mounts. I counted 39 on my car. With 1000lb. front springs it is a precision instrument. You don't have to wait for the suspension to settle...........as a matter of fact you have to speed up all your inputs. I also have aero and a $4300 diff that changes things.
Genuine question here from a DIY guy who's really getting into tracking: How much more difficult is it to replace the bushings and mounts on an E9X M3 vs an E46 M3? From your post, you seem to suggest that these swaps are much easier on an E46 M3, and I'm just trying to figure out why.
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      07-23-2013, 09:28 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
Genuine question here from a DIY guy who's really getting into tracking: How much more difficult is it to replace the bushings and mounts on an E9X M3 vs an E46 M3? From your post, you seem to suggest that these swaps are much easier on an E46 M3, and I'm just trying to figure out why.
I think an E9X is much easier.
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