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      09-06-2007, 02:05 PM   #67
lucid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Yes, definately BMW supplied. However, that doesn't keep someone from changing the tires. Just would be interested to know...
I am assuming if BMW supplies the car, it also dictates the configuration to be used in the test, but that's an assumption.
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      09-06-2007, 02:05 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
+1

I hope there is some reasonable explanation for this. Apparently, the car tested by Autobild also had sport tires fitted.
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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Yes, definately BMW supplied. However, that doesn't keep someone from changing the tires. Just would be interested to know...
First brake pads, then tires, then . . .

pulley?
no air filter?
ECU tuning?
headers?
cams?
throttle bodies?
final drive ratio?
Bore?
stroke?

This is a mess.
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      09-06-2007, 02:10 PM   #69
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Something isn't right about this review. I'll wait for some more official comparisons from the more well-known and trusted sources.
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      09-06-2007, 02:11 PM   #70
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+1

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First brake pads, then tires, then . . .

This is a mess.
+1, strongly agreee. WTF...

Oh well I'll likely put one in my garage anyway...

Last edited by swamp2; 09-07-2007 at 03:04 AM. Reason: typo
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      09-06-2007, 02:15 PM   #71
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Oh well I'll likely put on in my garage anyway...
Same here. I'll just need to be sure to order that "magazine testing package" (MZP) to go along with the premium package, cold weather package, etc.
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      09-06-2007, 02:30 PM   #72
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Hello everyone, I am new here and came across this article and noticed that there is some concern regarding the change of the originally equipped tires for the BMW. I realize that this would cause some concern in regards to altering performance numbers, however, when looked at closely I believe that it might have been done to level the playing field in reality.

The reason I say this is due to the fact that all three tires have a traction grade of "AA" allowing there to be equality in a track oriented review of the handling dynamics for these three sports cars. This is just assumption of motive, however, and not meant to be taken as an assertion of authority on the matter. Just thought that might be the approach being taken since the manufacturers tires would not meet the same traction grade standards of the other two sets that were equiped.
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      09-06-2007, 02:36 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by RedMarlin View Post
Hello everyone, I am new here and came across this article and noticed that there is some concern regarding the change of the originally equipped tires for the BMW. I realize that this would cause some concern in regards to altering performance numbers, however, when looked at closely I believe that it might have been done to level the playing field in reality.

The reason I say this is due to the fact that all three tires have a traction grade of "AA" allowing there to be equality in a track oriented review of the handling dynamics for these three sports cars. This is just assumption of motive, however, and not meant to be taken as an assertion of authority on the matter. Just thought that might be the approach being taken since the manufacturers tires would not meet the same traction grade standards of the other two sets that were equiped.
Sounds reasonable, Herr Quandt.

Seriously, I do not think Goodyear F1 tires (on the C6) or Pzero tires on the R8 are comparable to Cups. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires are far closer in performance to PZero and Goodyear F1 than PS Cups.
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      09-06-2007, 02:44 PM   #74
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Seriously, I do not think Goodyear F1 tires (on the C6) or Pzero tires on the R8 are comparable to Cups. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires are far closer in performance to PZero and Goodyear F1 than PS Cups.[/quote]

True, that would have been a much more reasonable upgrade. However, I am not sure what their motives were. Just giving a possible explaination for the concern. The main thing that would motivate my concern is whether the tires fitted on the m3 were given greater time to warm up, causing greater discrepancy. If not given extended warm-up time, the numbers should not be as skewed, or cause great concern.
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      09-06-2007, 02:48 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMarlin View Post
Seriously, I do not think Goodyear F1 tires (on the C6) or Pzero tires on the R8 are comparable to Cups. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires are far closer in performance to PZero and Goodyear F1 than PS Cups.
True, that would have been a much more reasonable upgrade. [/quote]

Herr Richter:

As you must know, the M3 comes standard with Pilot Sport 2 tires, so no "upgrade" was required to the standard tires on the M3 to make them comparable with the PZero or Goodyear F1 tires.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!
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      09-06-2007, 02:52 PM   #76
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Quote:
Herr Richter:

As you must know, the M3 comes standard with Pilot Sport 2 tires, so no "upgrade" was required to the standard tires on the M3 to make them comparable with the PZero or Goodyear F1 tires.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!
Thank you, I appreciate it. Hmmm... then that is a concern. Oh well... just thought I would attempt to see their reasoning, however, I guess they have no excuse then. That is a shame.
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      09-06-2007, 03:13 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by RedMarlin View Post
Thank you, I appreciate it. Hmmm... then that is a concern. Oh well... just thought I would attempt to see their reasoning, however, I guess they have no excuse then. That is a shame.
All kidding aside, I do still hope there is some explanation other than BMW trying to gain an edge by supplying a "ringer" equipped in a way a customer cannot buy the car.

Perhaps Autozeitung did it themselves. . .
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      09-06-2007, 03:18 PM   #78
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You better get to the bottom of this pronto! This is affecting 100's of thousands of buyer's decisions.
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      09-06-2007, 04:26 PM   #79
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You better get to the bottom of this pronto! This is affecting 100's of thousands of buyer's decisions.
Stahlgrau, first of all, you may not be as far off as you think, at least in the long term. Do you even understand the difference cup tires make? Honestly, would it be possible for you to kiss any more bottom for BMW? Objectivite analysis has not exactly been your friend. Ever heard the porcupine joke? Can't imagine why that is such a popular joke? If you are such a blind lover of the badge, why don't you do something that will cause BMW to actually improve its product and keep prices in check. Oh I forgot, its a BMW so it can't be improved. Would you buy the Gremlin if BMW badged it with a Roundel and an M and then call people whiners when they questioned its looks? Are you aware of what happened when U.S. customers demanded a 6mt for the E60M5. BMW begrudgingly slipped in a 6mt with the inability to disable the traction control due to concerns about driveline failures, but they did do something. Would that of ever happened if the majority U.S. customers praised BMW's every move like you do, not in a million years. Does BMW loving for loving sake motivate BMW to make positive changes, well, no. Market economies works quite well. Without the RS4 we wouldn't be talking about BMW's incredible 4 litre V8, no matter what BMW marketing claims. Profits are what counts for BMW and customers speak with their wallets. If the car is overpriced and everyone still buys it, don't look for any real improvements in the car for years. If the car is overpriced and customers go else where, what do you think BMW will do, sit around and hope customers buy it? Seen many "BMW enthusiasts" or anyone else for that matter knocking down the doors of dealers to get their "limited production" M5's and M6s that are gathering dust on dealer lots with sales prices below sticker? This is called a well needed corection for an overpriced and unreliable car in an economy that isn't exactly popping right now. Same thing happening at Porsche dealerships. Question is, which car company is going to be the smartest long term and produce the best all around performance car for the dollar? We shall see.

Last edited by ruff; 09-06-2007 at 04:44 PM.
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      09-06-2007, 04:44 PM   #80
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No one has any facts about this review. Only a bunch of conjecture. It's not even a well-known magazine. Everyone is over-reacting. We don't know who put the tires on. Anyway....you continue over-reacting to this review. I'll continue being patient.

Carry on.
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      09-06-2007, 04:46 PM   #81
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And what does your post have to do with the current topic? Nothing but to throw insults at me.
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      09-06-2007, 04:58 PM   #82
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You better get to the bottom of this pronto! This is affecting 100's of thousands of buyer's decisions.
Are you mocking my concern about this?
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      09-06-2007, 05:07 PM   #83
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And what does your post have to do with the current topic? Nothing but to throw insults at me.
Thanks for asking. Read the last edit....Cup tires and a response to your insult of ILC32 and others who have legitimate questions about BMW that for some unknown reason make you angry. In addition, it is my response because YOU, one day out of the blue, decided it would be funny to start insulting me personally for questioning anything BMW. Had zero problems with you before you decided you needed to start doing this. I hope I have answered your questions.
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      09-06-2007, 05:12 PM   #84
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Are you mocking my concern about this?
My guess, you initial impression is correct.
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      09-06-2007, 05:13 PM   #85
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Are you mocking my concern about this?
Yeah, a little.
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      09-06-2007, 05:17 PM   #86
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Yeah, a little.
It was such a subtle and nuanced barb that it took me a while to realize it!
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      09-06-2007, 06:53 PM   #87
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It was such a subtle and nuanced barb that it took me a while to realize it!
All in good fun. I just don't think it's something to be too worried about. We're not sure that BMW fitted the car with Cups, and even if they had, it wouldn't be the first time an auto manufacturer did something like this. Why did they let this magazine review have Cups and none of the others? And just how renowned is this magazine in the first place? We've only been given second hand info from a few posters. I'm not telling anyone what to do, but I'd wait until something a little more substantial and concrete is provided from a more reliable source(magazine). We're only just beginning to get the real scoop on the M3. The info is just beginning to flow. No need to over-react. My apologies if I seem rude at times.
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      09-07-2007, 02:55 AM   #88
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The new M3 becomes a supercar with only tires and brake pads!
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