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      03-26-2013, 08:02 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Actually it isn't.

As much as DCT could be considered an automatic, it does not behave nor feel the same as a standard auto. First, most automatics offer worse acceleration performance than their manual counterparts. Further, they have a very "disconnected drivetrain" feeling due to the torque converter, hence the slush box designation. I have driven my friends IS-F, I totally disliked the transmission. Same impression for my other buddy's C63 I've driven (it was the older version before MCT).

If the M3 was offered with a choice of MT or standard slushbox automatic, I would not even give the automatic a consideration. The DCT is a very interesting compromise.

Although I do miss rowing my own gears and doing nice heel-and-toe downshifts, I don't regret my choice of picking the DCT

The choice between DCT and 6MT all boils down to personal preference. There is no good or bad answer .
Im sure its super fast and lightyears ahead of a traditional auto, but at the end of the day it comes down to really wanting an actual manual (i.e. clutch pedal and stick shift) or a paddle shifting auto.
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      03-26-2013, 09:29 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by riM3 View Post
Ehh.. it's an automatic. That's not a bad thing. SMG, DCT, ZF8...they all execute the same mission (albeit differently).

IMHO, at legal speeds, the involvement of the 6MT enhances the M3 experience (I would miss the satisfaction of a good 4/3 downshift).

That said, a tuned GTI with DSG could probably walk me to 30.

My next M will likely be DCT, but not because I want it to be...for now, I'll keep rowing!

To each his own.
Agreed, it is an automated transmission. The difference however does lie on how it goes about executing that mission. I would not consider a ZF8 or SMG.

My specific point was that DCT cannot be compared to a standard torque converter automatic .

IMO, at legal speeds in NA, you cannot really enjoy the performance of the M3

Last edited by CanAutM3; 03-26-2013 at 11:41 AM.
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      03-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Im sure its super fast and lightyears ahead of a traditional auto, but at the end of the day it comes down to really wanting an actual manual (i.e. clutch pedal and stick shift) or a paddle shifting auto.
You are missing my point. I don't think it is that simple of a choice. At least it was not for me. I am a traditionalist and do love MT cars, all may cars before this one were MT. The point I am making is that I chose DCT because of DCT, not because it is an automatic.

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      03-26-2013, 09:56 AM   #92
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Oh look, another one of these.

Hurry up and justify your e-peens before the thread is closed.
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      03-26-2013, 10:00 AM   #93
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Oh look, another one of these.

Hurry up and justify your e-peens before the thread is closed.
I know, tried to stay away and got sucked in
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      03-26-2013, 10:04 AM   #94
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I know, tried to stay away and got sucked in
No worries, some people are capable of making their point without being a total fanboy.

Others not so much...
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      03-26-2013, 10:28 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I didn't switch but after reading all the posts on these forums about how good the DCT is I went and test drove a few of them. Fun car to drive but is it OMGWTFBBQ faster than a 6MT? No.

I dont understand this pissing match. They are the same car. Either you want to shift or you don't. It's not really that big of a deal.

I've got an 08 and a 6mt. Bottom of the barrel baby!
Hahaha

You got an 08, 6MT, non-ZCP M3? You peasant.
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      03-26-2013, 11:24 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Indeed...however this particular dead horse has been flogged every which way hundreds of times and the only SINGLE truism that comes out is that you should buy the transmission that YOU PREFER.
And what sort of lame brained individual asks on a forum for help on deciding which transmission to go for? You might as well ask whether to buy apples or oranges and decide on the outcome rather than your own taste.
Except people would start to suggest that the enthusiast prefers oranges, that oranges are more involving because they have to be to peeled, oranges are less likely to go bad and soon there will be no more oranges.
Save the oranges.
Oranges FTW
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      03-26-2013, 12:14 PM   #97
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soon there will be no more oranges
If this was inevitable, I'd be eating a lot of oranges.

Get 'em while the gettin's good, kids.
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      03-26-2013, 03:02 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Actually it isn't.

As much as DCT could be considered an automatic, it does not behave nor feel the same as a standard auto. First, most automatics offer worse acceleration performance than their manual counterparts. Further, they have a very "disconnected drivetrain" feeling due to the torque converter, hence the slush box designation. I have driven my friends IS-F, I totally disliked the transmission. Same impression for my other buddy's C63 I've driven (it was the older version before MCT).

If the M3 was offered with a choice of MT or standard slushbox automatic, I would not even give the automatic a consideration. The DCT is a very interesting compromise.

Although I do miss rowing my own gears and doing nice heel-and-toe downshifts, I don't regret my choice of picking the DCT .

The choice between DCT and 6MT all boils down to personal preference. There is no good or bad answer .
I agree 100%. although there are some people who buy the DCT because it was a auto. but not the case for everyone of course.

To a car enthusiast like my self, i saw the DCT has a performance option. I saw the manual as a fun option. i would have been happy with either. Although like you said i would never i mean NEVER want a standard auto in this car!

Back to my point about DCT being a performance option. Everything about the DCT setup is going to be better on a track, rather its a course or a drag. The location of the paddles and faster shifts. i can see someone wanting this DCT over manual being of a performance reasoning.

One of the things i really hated about a standard auto was the way the car sounded, but with a DCT it actually sounds pretty nice going though gears.
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      03-26-2013, 03:59 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Indeed...however this particular dead horse has been flogged every which way hundreds of times and the only SINGLE truism that comes out is that you should buy the transmission that YOU PREFER.
And what sort of lame brained individual asks on a forum for help on deciding which transmission to go for? You might as well ask whether to buy apples or oranges and decide on the outcome rather than your own taste.
Except people would start to suggest that the enthusiast prefers oranges, that oranges are more involving because they have to be to peeled, oranges are less likely to go bad and soon there will be no more oranges.
Save the oranges.
Oranges FTW
+1
+100
+1 on the apples and oranges comment.

One thing I disagree with, though, is your view that it's "lame brained" to ask for opinions from those with experience owning a transmission.

I couldn't disagree more. The experiences of those, for example, who have owned one type of transmission for years, and have decided to switch, are immensely valuable. That is real world information that goes well beyond "personal preference". When I heard from drivers who admitted they missed shifting in their DCT, for example, I knew I'd likely feel the same way. Going fast isn't enough for me; I want engagement. In fact, the role such information played in my own ordering experience is why I shared it in this thread.

I wish we could all just get along, including when we discuss, objectively and good-naturedly, the experiences we've had with each.

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      03-26-2013, 05:19 PM   #100
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Like the OP I own a DCT....in his position if I thought I might like to make the change to a MT, I would test drive it and then make a decision. It wouldn't occur to me to let a bunch of random people on a forum influence my decision...Sure if I wanted a recommendation for some aftermarket tat then no harm in asking - but the transmission, really?
The MT has consumable parts while the DCT doesn't, the MT's clutch and flywheel are both parts that will almost certainly need replacing once (at the very least) during the cars lifetime. The syncromesh rings also seem a little under engineered given the number of 1st to 2nd grind complaints and may well not last the life of the car.
The Getrag 7DCI600 DCT is rated to handle 600nm (the M3 produces 400nm) so there is plenty of headroom. There is no pattern of hardware failure or parts wearing out in DCTs. True if something goes wrong it will be more expensive but that is why you buy a warranty.
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      03-26-2013, 05:35 PM   #101
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DCT or nothing
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      03-26-2013, 06:17 PM   #102
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I went from a C63 (auto) to a 6MT. No regrets really.
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      03-26-2013, 06:37 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
News at 10...."Everyone rushes to justify there purchase decision"
Coming up next..."Sun seems to rise in the east"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
Save the manuals!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUESOM3 View Post
2 pedals are for bycicles



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken37.73 View Post
6MT is for petrol heads. You'll never have to make excuses for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Because swapping out worn syncromesh rings on an MT is something you could do in your lunchtime.

LOL you MT guys are funny...these threads always fill up with insecure MT owners making ever more extravagant reasons why they made the best choice.
The DCT is a closed box with lifetime oil... What could go wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Like the OP I own a DCT....in his position if I thought I might like to make the change to a MT, I would test drive it and then make a decision. It wouldn't occur to me to let a bunch of random people on a forum influence my decision...Sure if I wanted a recommendation for some aftermarket tat then no harm in asking - but the transmission, really?
The MT has consumable parts while the DCT doesn't, the MT's clutch and flywheel are both parts that will almost certainly need replacing once (at the very least) during the cars lifetime. The syncromesh rings also seem a little under engineered given the number of 1st to 2nd grind complaints and may well not last the life of the car.
The Getrag 7DCI600 DCT is rated to handle 600nm (the M3 produces 400nm) so there is plenty of headroom. There is no pattern of hardware failure or parts wearing out in DCTs. True if something goes wrong it will be more expensive but that is why you buy a warranty.
The DCT has two smaller clutches that are allowed to slip all the time at start/stops. Good manual gear box technique is to minimize this as much as possible so that a clutch will have a long service life. Both are supplied by Getrag who also builds DCT's for Mercedes and Ferrari. Lets hope that both will not have issues and we can all enjoy out cars for a very long lime.
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      03-26-2013, 07:27 PM   #104
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After global nuclear war the only thing that will survive are cockroaches and the DCT/MT debate
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      03-26-2013, 11:49 PM   #105
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DCT...
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      03-27-2013, 04:29 AM   #106
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Quote:
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FYI, the DCT clutches are consumable just as the MT. Only with the DCT you have no control over "how" they wear and they will almost always require a dealer or a comparable specialist to replace.
Well sort of....the DCT clutches consist of "wet" multi disk plates of a similar design to the clutch packs found in LSDs. And as the clutch packs in LSDs the expectation is that they will last the life of the car. The fact that the "off the shelf" Getrag unit is "over engineered" for the M3 should increase that expectation. Should it ever be required, changing the clutch packs is a relatively simple job and shouldn't be especially expensive.
I would imagine that most every owner will need to take their M3 into a dealer/specialist to have a clutch/gearbox related issue resolved whether it is DCT or MT. I think the days are long gone when the home mechanic could pull out a gearbox and swop out syncro rings or fit a new clutch with simple garage tools over a weekend.
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      03-27-2013, 07:35 AM   #107
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lol Mods you can close this...
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      03-27-2013, 10:34 AM   #108
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DO NOT CLOSE THIS THREAD!
Keep it coming guys, the debate of the century!
This debate will continue in F8x M3 forum so lets get warmed up!
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      03-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #109
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I live in Los Angeles...DCT is a lifesaver when you are caught in traffic... like... always.

When i do find some open road, tho, the stupid-fast shift speeds never ceases to make me grin. Do I miss a manual...sometimes (like on the freeway when you have to click through 4 gears on the paddles to get to 3rd...ah, first world problems).

Would I switch? Hell no!
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      03-27-2013, 11:43 AM   #110
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(like on the freeway when you have to click through 4 gears on the paddles to get to 3rd...ah, first world problems).
Just floor the gas pedal (past the "kickdown" detent) and click only once .

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