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      03-20-2013, 01:56 AM   #1
thorny
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DSC OFF Track Video

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Last edited by thorny; 11-22-2014 at 05:47 PM.
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      03-20-2013, 03:54 AM   #2
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Good going, thorny. Entertaining video! Your steering input is smooth, so I'm sure you'll be spinning less than me.

I ran MDM for first 13 months, then have been DSC off for 10 months now. It sure is more fun.

For a while, when you have to correct, you'll be going off the gas. But, after a while, you'll be on full throttle while correcting. It's a total blast.
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      03-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #3
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That was fun! Great vid. I'm still MDM on (Euro) so I can appreciate transitioning. I tried DSC off once and it was a bit too much (scary) for me.

What are you power mods? Seems like your M3 revs much faster than stock.

Good times.
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      03-20-2013, 08:45 AM   #4
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Good video and editing. In almost all cases you're just going to the gas too early/much. You seemed to never have drama at turn in to apex which suggests you're either over slowing or you aren't using the front weigh transfer enough, or trailbraking.

The vid shows good progression! Get an experienced instructor in your right seat for one session and I'd bet they can correct this for you.
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      03-20-2013, 09:20 AM   #5
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I don't know the track you were on but it looked like the same 2 corners over and over
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      03-20-2013, 09:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
I don't know the track you were on but it looked like the same 2 corners over and over
Haha. The most tail happy corner is so called off ramp. It is the slowest too. But c'mon I have more corners in there than just that one
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      03-20-2013, 10:27 AM   #7
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Nice job. I was at the event. I have be blue boss 302. Drove a few m3s just so nice and easy to control on slides! Enjoy
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      03-20-2013, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
Good going, thorny. Entertaining video! Your steering input is smooth, so I'm sure you'll be spinning less than me.

I ran MDM for first 13 months, then have been DSC off for 10 months now. It sure is more fun.

For a while, when you have to correct, you'll be going off the gas. But, after a while, you'll be on full throttle while correcting. It's a total blast.

Thanks Randall! Yeah, I've been watching your videos, probably too much

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      03-20-2013, 12:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
That was fun! Great vid. I'm still MDM on (Euro) so I can appreciate transitioning. I tried DSC off once and it was a bit too much (scary) for me.

What are you power mods? Seems like your M3 revs much faster than stock.

Good times.

Thanks!

Here is the thread with my power mods http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803792
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      03-20-2013, 12:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
Good video and editing. In almost all cases you're just going to the gas too early/much. You seemed to never have drama at turn in to apex which suggests you're either over slowing or you aren't using the front weigh transfer enough, or trailbraking.

The vid shows good progression! Get an experienced instructor in your right seat for one session and I'd bet they can correct this for you.
Appreciate the feedback! I agree with you, I never seem to have a problem hitting the apex and I tend to be get greedy with gas on the corner exit. Hence so much power oversteer.

I need to focus more on trail braking, I think you are right about me overslowing, maybe it is because I am so used to stock brakes with street pads. I switched to BBK and race pads and I can get more out of my corner entry.

I need to find a worthy instructor.

The video is more about 'oh shit' moments than the fastest and cleanest driving
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      03-20-2013, 01:20 PM   #11
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Missed that event but wished I could have made it... I really like Buttonwillow.

One observation I can offer is that you seem to get on the gas at corner exit without unwinding the steering wheel in several of the corners on the video. I understand that this is a compilation of the fails so not sure how the good one looks but wanted to point that out. If you pay attention to unwinding as you press on the gas pedal, your chance of coming out of the corner without oversteer will increase drastically .
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      03-20-2013, 01:41 PM   #12
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what exhaust is that? sounds good! and cool vid
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      03-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny View Post
Haha. The most tail happy corner is so called off ramp. It is the slowest too. But c'mon I have more corners in there than just that one
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny View Post
Thanks Randall! Yeah, I've been watching your videos, probably too much



Well, as you've noticed then, I too have had to do some massive corrections at Off-Ramp (like the last Buttonwillow on 03/10). But, in each of those occasions, the video clearly shows that there were still plenty of room on the outside part of the track. Same in your video when you spun there. And, the steering wheel was turned towards the right (i.e. where the track goes to). When we get on the gas heavily with the steering wheel turned like that, of course we're going to oversteer. The alternative is to go lighter on the gas, but when there's track space available, we obviously want to be on the gas more by using all of the track.

My goal next time I'm at Buttonwillow is to straighten out the steering wheel and head out to the outside part of the track when I get on the gas at that section - i.e. track out (use all of the track). But, at Sunrise, which is another corner where I've had to correct a lot, we're on the gas before the apex, so I need to just 'touch' the apex (at a tangent point) and immediately head out to the outside part of the track. What I've done frequently there is, after the apex, the steering wheel was still turned to the left (almost like I was following the inside contour of the track) and, thereby, having to correct heavily as the throttle increases.

In my ACS video from 02/24, there are lots of laps where I've had to do similar massive corrections at T4, T6 & T9 and, in each instances, I had not tracked all the way out to the outer edge of the track when exiting those corners. But, in other laps, I do track all the way out at those same corners, make a nice wide arc to the rumble strips and was able to put down power without the backend coming out.

It's funny how I've done 1:58 at Buttonwillow, but just am realizing how important tracking out is. Each time I've had to massively correct while exiting a corner, cars in front of me start pulling away - a clear indication how much time you're losing if the car's slip angle increases while exiting. Moderate amount of oversteer is ok (if you're not, then perhaps you're not driving hard enough), but sliding too much (while fun) clearly causes slow lap times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny View Post
Haha. The most tail happy corner is so called off ramp. It is the slowest too. But c'mon I have more corners in there than just that one
That last big spin at Bus Stop, looks like you turned in just a tad too early, while clearly going pretty fast. Turning in too early + high entry speed = spin/oversteer. Ask me how I know, lulz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti-Jean View Post
Missed that event but wished I could have made it... I really like Buttonwillow.

One observation I can offer is that you seem to get on the gas at corner exit without unwinding the steering wheel in several of the corners on the video. I understand that this is a compilation of the fails so not sure how the good one looks but wanted to point that out. If you pay attention to unwinding as you press on the gas pedal, your chance of coming out of the corner without oversteer will increase drastically .
+1 That penalizes you the most at Off-Ramp.
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Last edited by OC3; 03-20-2013 at 02:00 PM.
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      03-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #14
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do you guys get booted off the track for hitting the dirt?

at local events here, 2 wheels off and you're session is done. 4 wheels off and you're packing up and going home.
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      03-20-2013, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apecush View Post
do you guys get booted off the track for hitting the dirt?

at local events here, 2 wheels off and you're session is done. 4 wheels off and you're packing up and going home.
That seems harsh, most clubs have some rules if you continue doing it, but once or twice (even 4 wheels) will not get you booted of here. As long as you're not being stupid about it, and they're just honest mistakes.
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      03-20-2013, 03:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
That seems harsh, most clubs have some rules if you continue doing it, but once or twice (even 4 wheels) will not get you booted of here. As long as you're not being stupid about it, and they're just honest mistakes.
+1 The events I attend or instruct had generally just have a mandatory visit to pit lane so they can do an attitude check. Mistakes happen. If someone is completely overdriving or doing it often it could be an end of day or a ride with an instructor (if they arent riding with one already)
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      03-20-2013, 04:11 PM   #17
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Whats MDM?

I only run mine with trac off, im 1 sec faster with it off @ h2r harris hill raceway.
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      03-20-2013, 04:37 PM   #18
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Looks like you were improving just as I watching through the video! Nice work!
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      03-20-2013, 05:12 PM   #19
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Nice! you were definitely tearing it up out there!
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      03-20-2013, 06:12 PM   #20
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Nice clips OP and some excellent feedback from Randall (ie. don't pinch the turn) Maybe this year I road trip it to Cali? There seems to be a few tracks out there
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      03-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #21
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great vid!! its nice to see the comparison and improvements.

i think there is some power oversteer, but it really sounds like a lot of the mistakes are TTO - trailing throttle oversteer. you let up on the gas quicker than you should, the rear starts to snap around and when you compensate its too late. listen to some of the segments.. throttle, throttle, throttle, lift, turn and brake at once, add throttle after the car starts to rotate. listen at 3:05.

i would try slightly slower entry, and allow yourself the chance to add more power sooner, rather than snap off, turn, correct, snap on. back to basics to see if it helps - lift, brake, turn, power. then start adding trail braking,then start adding later braking.

disclaimer - i keep euro mdm on. i need a real track car. :/
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      03-20-2013, 07:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post


It's funny how I've done 1:58 at Buttonwillow, but just am realizing how important tracking out is. Each time I've had to massively correct while exiting a corner, cars in front of me start pulling away - a clear indication how much time you're losing if the car's slip angle increases while exiting. Moderate amount of oversteer is ok (if you're not, then perhaps you're not driving hard enough), but sliding too much (while fun) clearly causes slow lap times.
Try to get you eyes on track out when you approach apex, get your eyes to the next turn in point when you're past apex. If you're not tracking out, it's usually because you haven't looked at it until you apexed...and it's too late.

Try it!

Good on you guys for bringing what you're working on to a public forum to help others!
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