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      03-28-2013, 08:36 PM   #67
Mr Tonka
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By the way.... Your facts are wrong.... UN never approved any war on Iraq...

It was a unilateral attack led by US and allies... No Canada, no Britain, no France, no German.... Just some bull shizzy countries that I've barely heard of...

The two countries that lost the most were France and Russia... All the oil contracts (refining and extraction) that were in place by companies like Total SA and others became null and void
The Gulf War, codenamed Operation Desert Storm 17, January 1991 was a war waged by a U.N.-authorized Coalition force from 34 nations led by the United States, against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion and annexation of Kuwait. In 1991 the UN approved cease-fire and began the process of UN sanctions and resolutions to deal with Iraq and Saddam. During the Clinton administration you may recall the no-fly zones and UN policing Iraq while trying to resolve the situation. In 2003 after 12 yrs of no success, Saddam continued defiance of UN authorized inspections and 17 failed UN resolutions the cease fire was lifted and the war resumed.

Despite what many think Bush did NOT start the Iraq war. He continued the war which started in 1991 as a result of Saddam invading Kuwait. Many forget the 12 yrs of Saddams threats of WMDs which resulted in Clinton bombing Iraq. Bush did NOT start the WMD claims but followed thru on WMD claims from the 90s.
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      03-28-2013, 09:13 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
By the way.... Your facts are wrong.... UN never approved any war on Iraq...

It was a unilateral attack led by US and allies... No Canada, no Britain, no France, no German.... Just some bull shizzy countries that I've barely heard of...

The two countries that lost the most were France and Russia... All the oil contracts (refining and extraction) that were in place by companies like Total SA and others became null and void
Wikipedia:

The Gulf War (2 August 1990 – 28 February 1991), codenamed Operation Desert Storm (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991) was a war waged by a U.N.-authorized Coalition force from 34 nations led by the United States, against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion and annexation of Kuwait.

Countries like Britain, Italy, Denmark, Norway, Spain, Ukraine, Georgia, Australia, Czech Republic, Japan, Poland, Norway, Hungary, New Zealand, and Thailand?

Not sure about Russia and France losing those contracts, but with Russia soaked in oil, why would they have contracted with Iraq for oil in the first place?
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      03-28-2013, 09:24 PM   #69
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I was talking about the second gulf war... After 911... The illegal war that UN did not authorize...

Again... Saddam confessed that he did not have WMDs ... He had to keep Iran believing they did so Iran would not attack... Saddam also confessed that his army was in shambles since the first war... They never recovered.

Dessert storm was for strategic oil interest... Iraq invaded Kuwait which was Iraqi land before the British invaders created the split... Kuwaitis oil reserve actually taps from Iraqi land... It was the Saudis that were peeing their pants thinking Iraq would invade them next... King Abdullah almost went bankrupt paying the US over 80 billion for the war
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      03-28-2013, 09:57 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
I was talking about the second gulf war... After 911... The illegal war that UN did not authorize...

Again... Saddam confessed that he did not have WMDs ... He had to keep Iran believing they did so Iran would not attack... Saddam also confessed that his army was in shambles since the first war... They never recovered.

Dessert storm was for strategic oil interest... Iraq invaded Kuwait which was Iraqi land before the British invaders created the split... Kuwaitis oil reserve actually taps from Iraqi land... It was the Saudis that were peeing their pants thinking Iraq would invade them next... King Abdullah almost went bankrupt paying the US over 80 billion for the war
You said "any" war...
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      03-28-2013, 11:26 PM   #71
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And Russia was the real unsung hero of ww2.
Seriously? The same Russia (Stalin) that murdered his own returning troops, and held half of Europe behind the Iron Curtain for decades?
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      03-28-2013, 11:30 PM   #72
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somehow, during the pearl harbor bombing, several aircraft carriers that should have been there were on standby in the middle of nowhere.

a few years later america acquired the atomic bomb by receiving several german scientists and become a superpower.
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      03-29-2013, 07:29 AM   #73
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It was Russia that saved Europe from the nazi.. Not the Yankees
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      03-29-2013, 07:32 AM   #74
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Stalin had his own agenda ruling the most powerful country in the world... During WW2 era... and then created the most powerful bloc... Aka USSR
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      03-29-2013, 08:16 AM   #75
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/tinfoil hat
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      03-29-2013, 08:52 AM   #76
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/tinfoil hat
haha

I'm pretty sure world history is taught differently around the world. Because in GB, they'll tell you they are the ones who won the war. France's history books, given their modern day attitude, likely says they drove the germans out of france. Since the US ended the war in the pacific, our books say we were the heros of the war. Russians certainly believe they won the war, all of it, in every theater. Canadians are lead to believe that they fought and won the toughest battles in the war. That they ended the war with the 4th largest air force and 3rd largest naval surface fleet in the world. (of course in those days if you had an air force or navy you were in the running for the top 5 largest) I even think that the odds are pretty good that North Korea's history books say that they won WWII.
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      03-29-2013, 09:42 AM   #77
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It was Russia that saved Europe from the nazi.. Not the Yankees
OK, I just have to ask. Is it Tourettes Syndrome, another malady or just being grievously misinformed and slow witted?

As to the Russians--"saved" europe so they could lock them behind a wall for four decades of misery.
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      03-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #78
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It was Russia that saved Europe from the nazi.. Not the Yankees
It's clear you're not a student of history. Had the US not supplied Russia with war material she would have lost her major cities and the war to the Germans. The Bear killed almost as many of their own soldiers as the Germans did. Those folks are serious about no retreat

BTW: Take a close look at the Russian heavy bomber. Sure looks a lot like the WWII AMERICAN B29. They took 4 of them that were forced down and copied them bolt for bolt.
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      03-29-2013, 12:19 PM   #79
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all the great fighting states either ran out of money and/or were beaten themselves after severe economic weakness.

offense puts you on the map. defense prevents loss. special teams win wars.
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      03-29-2013, 01:46 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
It was Russia that saved Europe from the nazi.. Not the Yankees
OK, I just have to ask. Is it Tourettes Syndrome, another malady or just being grievously misinformed and slow witted?

As to the Russians--"saved" europe so they could lock them behind a wall for four decades of misery.
Read international history... Or watch the history channel.... Nazi would have conquered Britain if the Russians did not intervene
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      03-29-2013, 01:51 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
It was Russia that saved Europe from the nazi.. Not the Yankees
OK, I just have to ask. Is it Tourettes Syndrome, another malady or just being grievously misinformed and slow witted?

As to the Russians--"saved" europe so they could lock them behind a wall for four decades of misery.
Read international history... Or watch the history channel.... Nazi would have conquered Britain if the Russians did not intervene
I don't follow American history.... It's way too misconstrued.. And full of propaganda.... Just as that movie Argo was... Canadians saved the Yankee's ass... Benny boy affleck doesn't know his history
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      03-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #82
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Going back to the initial topic...

Please tell me how America benefited with ousting Saddam?

Was there WMDs?

Was Saddam a bin laden sympathizer? And was he training al queda?

Was he more important than extinguishing al queda and OBL?

Was it worth destroying the entire US economy over weak spy info fabricated by Cheney?

Now that Iraq and Iran are allies... And equally hate America ... Did America win?
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      03-29-2013, 02:10 PM   #83
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Read international history... Or watch the history channel.... Nazi would have conquered Britain if the Russians did not intervene
tough to say. hitler couldn't beat russia because of timing, but what really did him in was the 2 front war with d-day in the west and the russian advance in the east. the pincer remains one of the the oldest and best tactics in war.

i theorize that if america stayed out of the war completely: the allies wouldn't have tried d-day, germany would have given up bombing england, germany/russia would have ended in a stalemate, and hitler would have brokered a deal giving him western europe (minus england (there's evidence that germany/england was considering a truce)). holocaust included, both soviet russia and communist china killed more of their own people overall.

though america saw the opportunity and took it (the great depression was also hitting hard and what better way to mobilize a nation than war?). it's hard to say if we're better off now: think vietnam, korea, and the middle east... all issues that america pressed after its rise to power. [THG]

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      03-29-2013, 03:08 PM   #84
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Vietnam war made no sense... With media up playing Vietnam as a threat to America like a second nazi... Most American panicked largely due to illiteracy making them think the Vietnam rebels would attack American soul.... With majority of Americans not knowing that Vietnam is more than half way around the world ... And would likely take a century to reach American soil in their dragon boats.... America went to war...

Please tell me what was gained since America lost the war... And countless brave soldiers.... Not to mention the cowardly act of agent orange use of chemical weapons) against innocent Vietnamese civilians and rebels??

I'm not against Americans... Just opposed to stupidity
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      03-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #85
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Vietnam war made no sense... With media up playing Vietnam as a threat to America like a second nazi... Most American panicked largely due to illiteracy making them think the Vietnam rebels would attack American soul.... With majority of Americans not knowing that Vietnam is more than half way around the world ... And would likely take a century to reach American soil in their dragon boats.... America went to war...

Please tell me what was gained since America lost the war... And countless brave soldiers.... Not to mention the cowardly act of agent orange use of chemical weapons) against innocent Vietnamese civilians and rebels??

I'm not against Americans... Just opposed to stupidity
A few points about your last posts:

1. In 1939, the Russians signed a non-agression pact with Germany, saying they would stay out of any war in Europe. This ended in 1941, when Hitler attacked Russia.
2. Since when is the History Channel an impartial source of accurate information? Just FYI, it's owned by A&E, which is a joint venture of Disney-ABC, Hearst, and NBC. I really put a lot of stock in their coverage of Aliens, UFO's, and end-of-the-world-2012 broadcasts...
3. No one thought the Vietnamese were going to come to America - including the Americans. And everyone knew exactly where Vietnam was located, as we all watched it on the nightly news every night. The entire premise was the post-WW2 idea that the Communists were aggressive (e.g. Kruschev "we will bury you"), and had to be stopped from taking over smaller countries. The Russians and Chinese supplied the North Viets and Koreans in those conflicts - they were cold war battles that happened in those countries.
4. Agent Orange was a de-foliant, sprayed in the dense jungles to reduce the overgrowth and remove areas for the North Viets to hide and escape. The negative health effects weren't realized until later, and became evident in US troops - not the Vietnamese population. It wasn't used as a chemical agent of any sort against the people - just the jungle.

Hope it helps - stupidity is never a good idea.
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      03-29-2013, 03:55 PM   #86
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Vietnam war made no sense... With media up playing Vietnam as a threat to America like a second nazi... Most American panicked largely due to illiteracy making them think the Vietnam rebels would attack American soul.... With majority of Americans not knowing that Vietnam is more than half way around the world ... And would likely take a century to reach American soil in their dragon boats.... America went to war...

Please tell me what was gained since America lost the war... And countless brave soldiers.... Not to mention the cowardly act of agent orange use of chemical weapons) against innocent Vietnamese civilians and rebels??

I'm not against Americans... Just opposed to stupidity
Another history lesson. Ever hear of SEATO. It's kind of like NATO only for that part of the world. Vietnam was a commitment like Korea was. I do not understand where you got the idea that they were going to attack the US.

I love Canadians.... Just opposed to the uninformed.
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      03-29-2013, 04:45 PM   #87
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I guess our history's are opposing...

Nonetheless... Agent orange was chemical warfare.... Just like the a-bomb.... Over million civilians died and/ or suffered extreme pain and suffering....
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      03-29-2013, 04:48 PM   #88
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Going back on topic....

Question is... Was in adding Iraq post 9/11 unilaterally without UN approval a win for America?

Consider costs and benefits...
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