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      03-21-2013, 12:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
So what about Saudi Arabia? That's where all of those hijackers came from with funding by one of the princes there. So, I guess you can say they did tell the "truth" about where the attacks "came" from. Sadam would not back an Islamic terror cell since his government was secular, it's all a bunch of useless conjecture to say/think he would. But, hey, nothing's wrong with a little 3 trillion dollar, 100k+ death toll white lie.
Read my statement again. I didn't name any country or talk about a lie or money. I just refuted your statement that no one is crazy enough to attack the US. And while it might not have been a sovereign nation, it was a group, a rather large group of people who happen to hate america and what it stands for. Some countries do feel the same way but because they aren't crazy enough to attack, they are more than happy to assist those who will. Just making a statement.

Unlike many here i don't pretend to know what kind of intel there was at the start of the war and throughout it. People who think they know what really goes on are twice as ignorant. You only see what they want you to see.

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Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
For the GOP Rule 0 is bring up facts of the past.
Nothing pissess off GOPers more than facts.
And pointing out basic facts of...well lack of facts and costo f $1Billion per day...causes them great mental pain.

Baby Bush was their Jesus. His father was tehir god...he was the boy they thought woudl change the world....what they forgot as that he was a trust fund baby dry drunk who was more interested in proving to that he had a bigger cock than the old man.

And well, yeah it's very tru, at the time before the war if you even questioned why we were arming up to do something very stupid you were called all kinds of names by GOPers...because in effect you were questioning their baby jesus.

But GOPers...stop...put down your drink stop watching faux news.
Here are the facts.
1) NO WMD's!
2) SADDAM was no better or worse than any other dictator.
3) We lost 4k good men and women.
4) Well over 40k came home hurt for life.
5) The war cost the US $1billion per day.

With these basic facts that we knew then as well as we know now...get over it..your boy your lord and savior jesus h bush was a fucktard. And now that he is at his ranch playign with his dogs...you and I have to pay for this war.
you guys are funny. I can only assume that you think that all "GOPers" are drinking the coolaid is because you yourself are doing the same. Kind of like when someone who cheats on their spouse all of a sudden becoming paranoid of their spouses cheating on them.

Just because someone has a conservative approach to governing our country and our budget doesn't mean they watch Fox news. And just because someone has a conservative view point doesn't mean they are on board with wars; justifiable or otherwise. And don't for a minute think that just because someone has a conservative view point they think that anyone from the Bush family is a deity of some sort. Anyone who wants positive change in this country wants to do a way with a divisive political system. They want to see government get smaller and private industry get stronger. Anyone who thinks GWB did an awesome job is delusional.

I've always brushed off what people say about you in threads as people just being mean. After reading your post full of generalizations and fallacies about conservatism i'm thinking maybe they all have a point.
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      03-21-2013, 12:12 PM   #24
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This just in! Another perfect post!
Way to contribute.
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      03-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #25
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Read my statement again. I didn't name any country or talk about a lie or money. I just refuted your statement that no one is crazy enough to attack the US. And while it might not have been a sovereign nation, it was a group, a rather large group of people who happen to hate america and what it stands for. Some countries do feel the same way but because they aren't crazy enough to attack, they are more than happy to assist those who will. Just making a statement.
I said no NATION and you went ahead and posted 9/11 headlines that were clearly the result of a terrorist attack. So, some of the Saudi princes backed up the Saudi hijackers with money, why didn't we attack them? You refuted nothing. Oh, and countries in the Middle East with radicals don't hate us because we're free either, let's throw that misconception out the window too.
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      03-21-2013, 12:42 PM   #26
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      03-21-2013, 12:47 PM   #27
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Heres the facts you really need to pay attention to. The media doesn't always know what they're talking about. Just because the media reported that no WMDs were found doesn't mean that no WMDs were found. There were reports however, that got swept away very quickly mind you, that a number of large number of convoys were headed for the borders before and during the invasion. Sadam was under a lot of pressure for quite awhile about if he did or didn't have anything and it would have been enough time for anything he did have to be mobilized. Ever think we didn't find them in Iraq because they were moved? For the stuff he supposedly had it would not have been that hard. Surveillance technology wasn't as great back then as it is today.

If you weren't there, you can't say something did or did not happen. Just because the media says something, doesn't make it true. They have been wrong before, and they will be wrong again. American media is also excessively bias, there really isn't any network that doesn't tend to lean one way or the other.

You also have to realize that it was a very confusing time for this country. People wanted justice for 9/11 and started to hear what they wanted. The UN wasn't doing anything about Sadam's refusals for inspection and the US was gearing up to take action to make it happen. It might have been wrong to mislead Americans into thinking that we went into Iraq solely because of 9/11, but it was part of it and that emotion and support helped get done something that needed to get done.

Yes people died in the war in Iraq, it was a war. However there was one year when more Marines died in the states than in theater. OIF was not a very bloody war, it went on for a long time, but the death toll was nothing compared to Vietnam or WWII or Korea. The first Gulf War gave Americans this misunderstanding about war that we could win a war in a very short amount of time with minimal casualties. Unfortunately that just isn't true. It gets even worse when the enemy changes the game and goes unconventional.

Try to also imagine (and yes I know this is hard) all the good things that came out of us going to war. A lot of technology we use everyday is stuff that is prototyped and tested in the military then trickled down into civilian use. Modern GPS is one example.

I never got to go to Iraq, it's one of my biggest regrets of my Marine Corps career. I just happened to get stationed at a non deployable unit and missed by chance. I did however go to Afghanistan and I can speak from experience that the media has no clue what is really going on there. Talking to OIF vets a lot of things are similar when it comes to dealing with locals. Its a lot of stuff embedded media never really get to see and experience because they aren't there long enough and they are usually only looking for specific stories that will sell.

Its easy to sit back and criticize what happened if you weren't involved. Intel isn't always right. The people who gather intel are human and sometimes mistakes happen. I fully believe going to Iraq was a good thing, at least for getting rid of Sadam and his regime. He was an easier target than North Korea or other dictators, and we accomplished that mission.

The WMD issue is a complicated one though. Just because we didn't find them doesn't mean he didn't have them. And I know this is hard to follow, but just because the media says we didn't find them doesn't mean thats completely true. Sometimes its the better idea to say you didn't find what you were looking for even if you did, sadly someone is going to have to take the blame.

Also just because its trendy to hate on Bush and blame him for all of the countries problems doesn't mean that those opinions are true.
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      03-21-2013, 01:10 PM   #28
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So much time and effort wasted on assigning blame.

To the liberal Democrats*: The U.S. was fresh off of 9/11. We were in the throes of the war in Afghanistan started just 2-years before. The American public was led to believe that a nearby country (Iraq) presented a credible threat to the stability of the region and to U.S. national security. Plus, its ruler was a ruthless dictator. Hence, the vast majority of Americans, at that time, supported an invasion, and hence war was engaged. We'll never know if it was necessarily the wrong decision since the 19th and 20th century was replete with evidence of "appeasement gone wrong." So, get over it.

To the conservative Republicans*: The evidence presented to the American public regarding the motive for the Iraq invasion turned out to be false, and maybe even criminally so. We over-reacted in engaging a war without a clearly defined objective and underestimated the resulting toll on resources and human life. The American people has the right to question the motives of our leaders, particularly if some (e.g. Cheney) has an economic conflict of interest (war profiteer?). Get over it.

I get it. But I suggest we not waste more time and effort on "Who's to blame?", but rather, "What do we do now?", and "What have we learned?".

* I'm obviously generalizing (tongue in cheek)

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      03-21-2013, 01:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
I said no NATION and you went ahead and posted 9/11 headlines that were clearly the result of a terrorist attack. So, some of the Saudi princes backed up the Saudi hijackers with money, why didn't we attack them? You refuted nothing. Oh, and countries in the Middle East with radicals don't hate us because we're free either, let's throw that misconception out the window too.
Again, if you read the post again you'll see that i didn't state why they hated us. I'm sure they all have their reasons. Nor am i'm not defending any government actions. I'm just saying that there are people (in my OP i stated, "not a nation") who are willing to attack on US soil. I'm assuming because you're so sensitive to the 4K service men and women deaths in OIF, that you're also sensitive to the thousands of innocents dead due to that attack.

Please stop arguing points that i'm not arguing. I have said nothing that isn't a fact and i said nothing in defense of OIF.
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      03-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
Again, if you read the post again you'll see that i didn't state why they hated us. I'm sure they all have their reasons. Nor am i'm not defending any government actions. I'm just saying that there are people (in my OP i stated, "not a nation") who are willing to attack on US soil. I'm assuming because you're so sensitive to the 4K service men and women deaths in OIF, that you're also sensitive to the thousands of innocents dead due to that attack.

Please stop arguing points that i'm not arguing. I have said nothing that isn't a fact and i said nothing in defense of OIF.
So why state they hate what we stand for? What do we stand for? There have always been people willing to attack on US soil, but how many of them were actual Iraqis in all the attempts since 9/11? You argued that countries are crazy enough to attack us and then post a 9/11 headline, except you twist it by saying groups backed by other nations. Seeing how the attacks were perpertrated by Saudi hijackers backed by Saudi oil princes, why didn't we take the war to them instead of destroying Iraq only to rebuild it? I could care less if you defend OIF and you posted no facts, of course!
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      03-21-2013, 02:57 PM   #31
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Wow.

I think you need to take deep breath and read my posts again. I too sometimes have a problem with reading comprehension. So what i do is read it 2 or 3 times slowly.

I'll recap for you because seriously, you've misread nearly all of what i wrote. I'm not trying to be a smart ass either. I tried just repeating what i wrote in different words to better illustrate it and that didn't help. So maybe if you read it all in line it will help you see that my original post didn't state that you were wrong. I only said that other people have and will again attack Americans on US soil with the backing of those nations who ARE NOT CRAZY ENOUGH TO ATTACK THE US BUT WISH THEY COULD. This bolded part of your first post is the only thing i addressed in my response. You'll see in my response there is a phrase that is bolded that partially agrees with your statement.

You:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
No nation in its right mind would attack the United States, what does it have to gain when all it takes is one carrier strike group to level their infrastructure? The war was waged on a lie and served to enrich Halliburton and other war profiteers. No matter how you slice it, OIF was wrong and turned Afghanistan into a forgotten conflict. People were suckered by hinting that Iraq was involved in 9/11 by simply stating that Iraq was in the same geographic region. Only revisionists like the fools at Fox News would call it the greatest military action of the last decade. "But he's killing his own people!" Yeah, well so is North Korea and they actually have the kind of weapons Iraq didn't have.
ME:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
Maybe not a nation, but don't be so naive to think that certain nations didn't and won't again assist motivated groups in their planned attacks on the US.
You:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
So what about Saudi Arabia? That's where all of those hijackers came from with funding by one of the princes there. So, I guess you can say they did tell the "truth" about where the attacks "came" from. Sadam would not back an Islamic terror cell since his government was secular, it's all a bunch of useless conjecture to say/think he would. But, hey, nothing's wrong with a little 3 trillion dollar, 100k+ death toll white lie.
ME:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
Read my statement again. I didn't name any country or talk about a lie or money. I just refuted your statement that no one is crazy enough to attack the US. And while it might not have been a sovereign nation, it was a group, a rather large group of people who happen to hate america and what it stands for. Some countries do feel the same way but because they aren't crazy enough to attack, they are more than happy to assist those who will. Just making a statement.

Unlike many here i don't pretend to know what kind of intel there was at the start of the war and throughout it. People who think they know what really goes on are twice as ignorant. You only see what they want you to see.
You:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
I said no NATION and you went ahead and posted 9/11 headlines that were clearly the result of a terrorist attack. So, some of the Saudi princes backed up the Saudi hijackers with money, why didn't we attack them? You refuted nothing. Oh, and countries in the Middle East with radicals don't hate us because we're free either, let's throw that misconception out the window too.
ME:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
Again, if you read the post again you'll see that i didn't state why they hated us. I'm sure they all have their reasons. Nor am i'm not defending any government actions. I'm just saying that there are people (in my OP i stated, "not a nation") who are willing to attack on US soil. I'm assuming because you're so sensitive to the 4K service men and women deaths in OIF, that you're also sensitive to the thousands of innocents dead due to that attack.

Please stop arguing points that i'm not arguing. I have said nothing that isn't a fact and i said nothing in defense of OIF.
You:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
So why state they hate what we stand for? What do we stand for? There have always been people willing to attack on US soil, but how many of them were actual Iraqis in all the attempts since 9/11? You argued that countries are crazy enough to attack us and then post a 9/11 headline, except you twist it by saying groups backed by other nations. Seeing how the attacks were perpertrated by Saudi hijackers backed by Saudi oil princes, why didn't we take the war to them instead of destroying Iraq only to rebuild it? I could care less if you defend OIF and you posted no facts, of course!

I hope that you can see that i'm not trying to argue the points you keep bringing up. I don't care to speculate on what the answers are to the issues you're asking about. I don't pretend to know why people hate americans or why you can't see that my original post wasn't even directed at you personally.
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      03-23-2013, 07:54 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Nate4641
Heres the facts you really need to pay attention to. The media doesn't always know what they're talking about. Just because the media reported that no WMDs were found doesn't mean that no WMDs were found. There were reports however, that got swept away very quickly mind you, that a number of large number of convoys were headed for the borders before and during the invasion. Sadam was under a lot of pressure for quite awhile about if he did or didn't have anything and it would have been enough time for anything he did have to be mobilized. Ever think we didn't find them in Iraq because they were moved? For the stuff he supposedly had it would not have been that hard. Surveillance technology wasn't as great back then as it is today.

If you weren't there, you can't say something did or did not happen. Just because the media says something, doesn't make it true. They have been wrong before, and they will be wrong again. American media is also excessively bias, there really isn't any network that doesn't tend to lean one way or the other.

You also have to realize that it was a very confusing time for this country. People wanted justice for 9/11 and started to hear what they wanted. The UN wasn't doing anything about Sadam's refusals for inspection and the US was gearing up to take action to make it happen. It might have been wrong to mislead Americans into thinking that we went into Iraq solely because of 9/11, but it was part of it and that emotion and support helped get done something that needed to get done.

Yes people died in the war in Iraq, it was a war. However there was one year when more Marines died in the states than in theater. OIF was not a very bloody war, it went on for a long time, but the death toll was nothing compared to Vietnam or WWII or Korea. The first Gulf War gave Americans this misunderstanding about war that we could win a war in a very short amount of time with minimal casualties. Unfortunately that just isn't true. It gets even worse when the enemy changes the game and goes unconventional.

Try to also imagine (and yes I know this is hard) all the good things that came out of us going to war. A lot of technology we use everyday is stuff that is prototyped and tested in the military then trickled down into civilian use. Modern GPS is one example.

I never got to go to Iraq, it's one of my biggest regrets of my Marine Corps career. I just happened to get stationed at a non deployable unit and missed by chance. I did however go to Afghanistan and I can speak from experience that the media has no clue what is really going on there. Talking to OIF vets a lot of things are similar when it comes to dealing with locals. Its a lot of stuff embedded media never really get to see and experience because they aren't there long enough and they are usually only looking for specific stories that will sell.

Its easy to sit back and criticize what happened if you weren't involved. Intel isn't always right. The people who gather intel are human and sometimes mistakes happen. I fully believe going to Iraq was a good thing, at least for getting rid of Sadam and his regime. He was an easier target than North Korea or other dictators, and we accomplished that mission.

The WMD issue is a complicated one though. Just because we didn't find them doesn't mean he didn't have them. And I know this is hard to follow, but just because the media says we didn't find them doesn't mean thats completely true. Sometimes its the better idea to say you didn't find what you were looking for even if you did, sadly someone is going to have to take the blame.

Also just because its trendy to hate on Bush and blame him for all of the countries problems doesn't mean that those opinions are true.
Saddam stated after his unlawful arrest.... That he had to make Iran believe he had WMD so that Iran would not try a preemptive attack(bitter enemies)

Bush wanted revenge for the thwarted assasination attempt on Bush Sr. In the first gulf war...

bottom line is that America invaded a soveign nation and killed its leader... And the ICC can't do nothing about it even though there is an international warrant for his arrest
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      03-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #33
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Saddam Hussein was an asshole
so are pretty much all the arab leaders, african leader, some south american leaders
some asian leaders
so why did we only get rid of him?
why not make a list, and check them off one by one?
what made iraq more worthy of regime change than the others?
and why not north korea, who already have a nuclear weapon.
The very fact that the US does not want to mess with north korea, because they have the bomb, is the very same reason iran wants to get the bomb.
because once you get that, you are safe from, the US bombers, then the americans wonder why these countries are trying to get the bomb?
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      03-23-2013, 10:03 AM   #34
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Unfortunately for you, I don't get baited in!
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      03-23-2013, 10:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Saddam Hussein was an asshole
so are pretty much all the arab leaders, african leader, some south american leaders
some asian leaders
so why did we only get rid of him?
why not make a list, and check them off one by one?
what made iraq more worthy of regime change than the others?
and why not north korea, who already have a nuclear weapon.
The very fact that the US does not want to mess with north korea, because they have the bomb, is the very same reason iran wants to get the bomb.
because once you get that, you are safe from, the US bombers, then the americans wonder why these countries are trying to get the bomb?
Why Iraq and not someone else:
-Right next door to Saudis (oil) who were (and remain) increasingly agitated about Iranian threats and had been hammering us to do something
-Saudi provides very friendly and secure launch point for major ground operations-this stuff is hard and Saudi makes it easier
-Iraq border with Iran (who wishes to become THE regional power) provides overland access for any conventional force invasion of Iran
-Gives us a continued presence and influence in the center of region to counter-balance Iran and secure continued access to oil

You are partially right on N. Korea but for the wrong reasons. There is no way in the world that N. Korea can deliver a nuc that directly harms the U.S. First, they can't get it here and second, they won't use it except as a bargaining chip. It's one thing to develop a nuc and quite another to make it small enough to be of real military value. They might be able to put one in the back of a truck and drive it to Seoul but missile and air delivery is just not a capability for them. We also have ships in the region that can interdict a real world launch in all probability. But the real reason may be China--we have historical proof that they react rather badly when western powers show up on the ground in the area. And our relations with them are FAR more important than anything else.

p.s. Neither Iran or N. Korea are safe from attack and should not miscalculate the balance of force and our willingness to use it. It just doesn't meet our strategic needs to do that now. It's not a matter of being afraid, it's a matter of national priorities.
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      03-23-2013, 10:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate4641 View Post
Heres the facts you really need to pay attention to. The media doesn't always know what they're talking about. Just because the media reported that no WMDs were found doesn't mean that no WMDs were found. There were reports however, that got swept away very quickly mind you, that a number of large number of convoys were headed for the borders before and during the invasion. Sadam was under a lot of pressure for quite awhile about if he did or didn't have anything and it would have been enough time for anything he did have to be mobilized. Ever think we didn't find them in Iraq because they were moved? For the stuff he supposedly had it would not have been that hard. Surveillance technology wasn't as great back then as it is today.

If you weren't there, you can't say something did or did not happen. Just because the media says something, doesn't make it true. They have been wrong before, and they will be wrong again. American media is also excessively bias, there really isn't any network that doesn't tend to lean one way or the other.

You also have to realize that it was a very confusing time for this country. People wanted justice for 9/11 and started to hear what they wanted. The UN wasn't doing anything about Sadam's refusals for inspection and the US was gearing up to take action to make it happen. It might have been wrong to mislead Americans into thinking that we went into Iraq solely because of 9/11, but it was part of it and that emotion and support helped get done something that needed to get done.

Yes people died in the war in Iraq, it was a war. However there was one year when more Marines died in the states than in theater. OIF was not a very bloody war, it went on for a long time, but the death toll was nothing compared to Vietnam or WWII or Korea. The first Gulf War gave Americans this misunderstanding about war that we could win a war in a very short amount of time with minimal casualties. Unfortunately that just isn't true. It gets even worse when the enemy changes the game and goes unconventional.

Try to also imagine (and yes I know this is hard) all the good things that came out of us going to war. A lot of technology we use everyday is stuff that is prototyped and tested in the military then trickled down into civilian use. Modern GPS is one example.

I never got to go to Iraq, it's one of my biggest regrets of my Marine Corps career. I just happened to get stationed at a non deployable unit and missed by chance. I did however go to Afghanistan and I can speak from experience that the media has no clue what is really going on there. Talking to OIF vets a lot of things are similar when it comes to dealing with locals. Its a lot of stuff embedded media never really get to see and experience because they aren't there long enough and they are usually only looking for specific stories that will sell.

Its easy to sit back and criticize what happened if you weren't involved. Intel isn't always right. The people who gather intel are human and sometimes mistakes happen. I fully believe going to Iraq was a good thing, at least for getting rid of Sadam and his regime. He was an easier target than North Korea or other dictators, and we accomplished that mission.

The WMD issue is a complicated one though. Just because we didn't find them doesn't mean he didn't have them. And I know this is hard to follow, but just because the media says we didn't find them doesn't mean thats completely true. Sometimes its the better idea to say you didn't find what you were looking for even if you did, sadly someone is going to have to take the blame.

Also just because its trendy to hate on Bush and blame him for all of the countries problems doesn't mean that those opinions are true.
I'm usually on the opposing side but good arguement points.
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      03-23-2013, 05:28 PM   #37
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It's just too bad USA is bankrupt and afford to payoff every country to do as they say....

Personally, I was happy that the Canadian prime minister gave bush the middle finger when asked to invade the sovereign country of Iraq...
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      03-23-2013, 05:48 PM   #38
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I just wish the anti-war left was as active now as they were when Bush was in office.
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      03-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
Why Iraq and not someone else:
-Right next door to Saudis (oil) who were (and remain) increasingly agitated about Iranian threats and had been hammering us to do something
-Saudi provides very friendly and secure launch point for major ground operations-this stuff is hard and Saudi makes it easier
-Iraq border with Iran (who wishes to become THE regional power) provides overland access for any conventional force invasion of Iran
-Gives us a continued presence and influence in the center of region to counter-balance Iran and secure continued access to oil

You are partially right on N. Korea but for the wrong reasons. There is no way in the world that N. Korea can deliver a nuc that directly harms the U.S. First, they can't get it here and second, they won't use it except as a bargaining chip. It's one thing to develop a nuc and quite another to make it small enough to be of real military value. They might be able to put one in the back of a truck and drive it to Seoul but missile and air delivery is just not a capability for them. We also have ships in the region that can interdict a real world launch in all probability. But the real reason may be China--we have historical proof that they react rather badly when western powers show up on the ground in the area. And our relations with them are FAR more important than anything else.

p.s. Neither Iran or N. Korea are safe from attack and should not miscalculate the balance of force and our willingness to use it. It just doesn't meet our strategic needs to do that now. It's not a matter of being afraid, it's a matter of national priorities.
You had me at "oil"
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      03-24-2013, 07:00 PM   #40
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Well when a shit hits the rocks you prosecute the guy in charge not the guy behind the wheel?

Well the nation has hit the rocks, so can we use some national guards folks and render the Bush and Cheny family and put them on trial?

If they fucked up...well either hang them or throw their sorry asses in jail....

Oh wait...did i just go after the boy king of the conservative party?
Yup!

See this is the line of shit that I love "Hey we are conservative, we don't support the war!"

OK ASSHOLES! Cut the shit! When your boy king was in power you were pounding your chests and pulling your pud in erotic anticipation of a "liberation"

Well......
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      03-24-2013, 07:25 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post

Just because someone has a conservative approach to governing our country and our budget doesn't mean they watch Fox news. And just because someone has a conservative view point doesn't mean they are on board with wars; justifiable or otherwise. And don't for a minute think that just because someone has a conservative view point they think that anyone from the Bush family is a deity of some sort. Anyone who wants positive change in this country wants to do a way with a divisive political system. They want to see government get smaller and private industry get stronger.
This. If I tell you I'm in a gang, but I'm not a 'blood', does that automatically make me a 'crip'? Get a grip people, stop making false assumptions about people that disagree with you.
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      03-24-2013, 07:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
Well when a shit hits the rocks you prosecute the guy in charge not the guy behind the wheel?

Well the nation has hit the rocks, so can we use some national guards folks and render the Bush and Cheny family and put them on trial?

If they fucked up...well either hang them or throw their sorry asses in jail....

Oh wait...did i just go after the boy king of the conservative party?
Yup!

See this is the line of shit that I love "Hey we are conservative, we don't support the war!"

OK ASSHOLES! Cut the shit! When your boy king was in power you were pounding your chests and pulling your pud in erotic anticipation of a "liberation"

Well......
Oh grow up! This has been coming since well before Bush.
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      03-25-2013, 08:17 AM   #43
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Oh grow up! This has been coming since well before Bush.
Don't even mind him, unless he is posting about fat chicks or skydiving he really doesn't know what he's talking about.
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      03-25-2013, 09:03 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
Why Iraq and not someone else:
-Right next door to Saudis (oil) who were (and remain) increasingly agitated about Iranian threats and had been hammering us to do something
-Saudi provides very friendly and secure launch point for major ground operations-this stuff is hard and Saudi makes it easier
-Iraq border with Iran (who wishes to become THE regional power) provides overland access for any conventional force invasion of Iran
-Gives us a continued presence and influence in the center of region to counter-balance Iran and secure continued access to oil

You are partially right on N. Korea but for the wrong reasons. There is no way in the world that N. Korea can deliver a nuc that directly harms the U.S. First, they can't get it here and second, they won't use it except as a bargaining chip. It's one thing to develop a nuc and quite another to make it small enough to be of real military value. They might be able to put one in the back of a truck and drive it to Seoul but missile and air delivery is just not a capability for them. We also have ships in the region that can interdict a real world launch in all probability. But the real reason may be China--we have historical proof that they react rather badly when western powers show up on the ground in the area. And our relations with them are FAR more important than anything else.

p.s. Neither Iran or N. Korea are safe from attack and should not miscalculate the balance of force and our willingness to use it. It just doesn't meet our strategic needs to do that now. It's not a matter of being afraid, it's a matter of national priorities.
I see your point. But, why not attack Iran instead of Iraq? Iran is proven to have been supporting Hamas and other band of fanatics/terrorists. Is it because the cost of attacking and invading Iran is greater than Iraq?
Same analogy goes to Pakistan. Their ISI been harboring the Taliban and OBL before the US military nailed the guy.
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