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      03-19-2013, 02:31 AM   #45
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You're definitely entitled to your opinion and no one can argue that. But the original discussion was regarding exclusive vs valuation and the reality is what it is. Exclusive/rarity = much higher price. Thats with anything not just cars.
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      03-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #46
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Sad how many people love to hate on this forum. I bet 110% of the people on this board would trade their M3 + cash (if they had it) for the R8 V8....except for powerbeast (his car is probably worth a 458).

The R8 has exceptional build quality and feel. The one thing that people can't understand on paper is how the car feels. My old cayman is still the best drivers car Ive ever owned and it was only 295hp and had 0-60 times of 5.7s but that didnt matter to me since the handling was so precise. The R8 has won or come in the top 3 best drivers car since its been in the market.

Many of these M owners are starting to act like chevy owners...all about HP. Who cares. The R8 is a much better car all around.

Too much kool aid in this forum.
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      03-19-2013, 08:47 AM   #47
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He has an R8 and you have a marked up 3 series. That's funny.
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      03-19-2013, 09:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
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He has an R8 and you have a marked up 3 series. That's funny.
Not sure I understand this.
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      03-19-2013, 09:46 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
And its less than 150 as I posted links to several owners weigh ins and its really about 120 pounds or less for some depending on options or tranny.

100 pounds is simply not going to matter when the mass is spread out throughout the car. Especially considering the e92 has 19 inch wheels, is bigger dimensions and has a lot more technology-you can see they really did cut weight in a lot of areas to stay within this 3550 range.

Its all in peoples heads when they get stuck on the e46 m3 being some feather light and "more nimble" and more track worthy because its lighter. The facts speak for themselves. The e46 m3 is not any perceptable degree lighter than the e92 and can be matched by emptying or filling the gas tank or not having 1 passenger.
First of all, you're a little off on your figures. While the base E46 M3 comes in at a tad over 3400, a base E92 comes in at just under 3600. Add the sunroof and automatic and you're approaching 3700 on the current car. BMW USA says that a loaded E92 weighs 3704 pounds. They also said a loaded E46 came in at less than 3500 pounds (can't remember the exact number). All these weights with all liquids absolutely topped off, as per SAE rules.

OK, we're not talking complete apples to oranges as far as weights go, but let me tell you, the current car definitely drives bigger and heavier, and is a bit less wieldy than the E46. We've had a couple of M3s grace our garage, and in my opinion, the E36 was a more fun drive than the E46. Yes, the E46 was a better car in nearly every way, but because of its size and weight, it just didn't reward the driver as well as the E36 when strafing the twisties.

Same with the E92. it's a better car than the E46 in nearly every way, but turn-in isn't as crisp, and any driver with neurons that fire can tell the difference.

I won't say that it's less fun to drive, however. That magnificent engine is head and shoulders better than the E46 powerplant (sounds a bunch better, as well), and it more than makes up for the less agile chassis.

This in my opinion, of course.

Bruce
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      03-19-2013, 09:48 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01
Sad how many people love to hate on this forum. I bet 110% of the people on this board would trade their M3 + cash (if they had it) for the R8 V8....except for powerbeast (his car is probably worth a 458).

The R8 has exceptional build quality and feel. The one thing that people can't understand on paper is how the car feels. My old cayman is still the best drivers car Ive ever owned and it was only 295hp and had 0-60 times of 5.7s but that didnt matter to me since the handling was so precise. The R8 has won or come in the top 3 best drivers car since its been in the market.

Many of these M owners are starting to act like chevy owners...all about HP. Who cares. The R8 is a much better car all around.

Too much kool aid in this forum.
^spot on.

This discussion reminds me of all those threads about the Mustangs vs M3. The new Mustangs are very comparable in the performance category. But if you mention that on here everyone gets butthurt that some car might be as good as M3 for a fraction of the price. then they dog it and say the Mustang is so cheap and the interior sucks blah blah blah, but its just as fast. There are lots of cars out there that are comparable in performance but leagues apart overall. What about M3 vs Aston Marton Vantage? The M3 is faster but the Aston Marton is way out of the Ms league. Same with Bentley, Masserati, etc.
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      03-19-2013, 10:46 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uiop View Post
He has an R8 and you have a marked up 3 series. That's funny.
Not sure I understand this.
I was talking about how M3takesNYC's thought process is M3>All. As Griggs and you just said, the majority of M3 owners on this forum get so butthurt that the M3 can be beaten.
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      03-19-2013, 10:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
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I was talking about how M3takesNYC's thought process is M3>All
Oh haha, exacty!
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      03-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uiop View Post
I was talking about how M3takesNYC's thought process is M3>All. As Griggs and you just said, the majority of M3 owners on this forum get so butthurt that the M3 can be beaten.
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Oh haha, exacty!
And no one is arguing that the M3 isn't an awesome car, because it is! In fact its spectacular! But its definitely not the end all nor is it better than every car in the world.
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      03-19-2013, 11:58 AM   #54
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[quote=Mr. ///M3 RD;13655687]Yes ... looks like he missed to add the link

Let me add it for him ... thanks to Google we find it all


Your such a gentleman
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      03-19-2013, 12:19 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
Sad how many people love to hate on this forum. I bet 110% of the people on this board would trade their M3 + cash (if they had it) for the R8 V8....except for powerbeast (his car is probably worth a 458).

The R8 has exceptional build quality and feel. The one thing that people can't understand on paper is how the car feels. My old cayman is still the best drivers car Ive ever owned and it was only 295hp and had 0-60 times of 5.7s but that didnt matter to me since the handling was so precise. The R8 has won or come in the top 3 best drivers car since its been in the market.

Many of these M owners are starting to act like chevy owners...all about HP. Who cares. The R8 is a much better car all around.

Too much kool aid in this forum.
Build quality on the r8 is good but when I see things like the e-brake button falling off for no reason and the seatbelt buckle falling apart for no reason, and the trunk latch getting stuck over and over again makes me question overall build quality. Plus the idrive in the m3 is far more intuitive than the mmi in my r8. Some of the controls, ie steering wheel controls and other controls in the Audi leave me wondering wtf Audi was thinking when designing their cars. No memory seating in a 170k car wtf?

There is no denying the overall ownership experience in te r8 but it does not come without faults. The b&o sound system sucks balls too and no Bluetooth adio. Also the Bluetooth sucks ass in the Audi. Callers can't hear me when I call them. The bmw is far better technologically speaking.
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      03-19-2013, 12:32 PM   #56
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      03-19-2013, 01:23 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
Build quality on the r8 is good but when I see things like the e-brake button falling off for no reason and the seatbelt buckle falling apart for no reason, and the trunk latch getting stuck over and over again makes me question overall build quality. Plus the idrive in the m3 is far more intuitive than the mmi in my r8. Some of the controls, ie steering wheel controls and other controls in the Audi leave me wondering wtf Audi was thinking when designing their cars. No memory seating in a 170k car wtf?

There is no denying the overall ownership experience in te r8 but it does not come without faults. The b&o sound system sucks balls too and no Bluetooth adio. Also the Bluetooth sucks ass in the Audi. Callers can't hear me when I call them. The bmw is far better technologically speaking.
I would have to agree. The M3 was way more user friendly and more technologically advanced. I scratch my head as to why some of this stuff was left off the R8, and some of the way Audi did things feels backwards (position of buttons on steering wheels, shifting direction with the R/Tronic, etc), but maybe thats just because I came from an M3 so I'm turned around. I think the sound quality is good on B&O but don't understand why they didn't make it a better bluetooth system and more compatable with wireless devices, especially at its price point. However the driving experience of the R8 and the overall ownership experience is completely different and undeniable as you stated.
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      03-19-2013, 03:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
First of all, you're a little off on your figures. While the base E46 M3 comes in at a tad over 3400, a base E92 comes in at just under 3600. Add the sunroof and automatic and you're approaching 3700 on the current car. BMW USA says that a loaded E92 weighs 3704 pounds. They also said a loaded E46 came in at less than 3500 pounds (can't remember the exact number). All these weights with all liquids absolutely topped off, as per SAE rules.

OK, we're not talking complete apples to oranges as far as weights go, but let me tell you, the current car definitely drives bigger and heavier, and is a bit less wieldy than the E46. We've had a couple of M3s grace our garage, and in my opinion, the E36 was a more fun drive than the E46. Yes, the E46 was a better car in nearly every way, but because of its size and weight, it just didn't reward the driver as well as the E36 when strafing the twisties.

Same with the E92. it's a better car than the E46 in nearly every way, but turn-in isn't as crisp, and any driver with neurons that fire can tell the difference.

I won't say that it's less fun to drive, however. That magnificent engine is head and shoulders better than the E46 powerplant (sounds a bunch better, as well), and it more than makes up for the less agile chassis.

This in my opinion, of course.

Bruce
Bruce here is another example of you pulling out numbers out of your ass. I posted the link to swamp's scale measurement. How can you refute the data he posted up clearly with pictures of the scale to boot.

And you can't start adding in a sunroof as part of the weight savings from the e92 coupe was the CF roof so you compare the standard car with the standard car.

Go visirt the links. No e46 m3 owner was CLOSE to 3400 pounds except one guy who stripped his car.

You really seem to be worshipped on this board despite posting inaccurate information all of the time.

Click on the links I posted than refute the data. I am sure you will somehow.

Bottom line is a e92 coupe weighs within 100-130 pounds of the e46 m3 with similar interior options (sound system, nav etc)
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      03-19-2013, 03:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
Sad how many people love to hate on this forum. I bet 110% of the people on this board would trade their M3 + cash (if they had it) for the R8 V8....except for powerbeast (his car is probably worth a 458).

The R8 has exceptional build quality and feel. The one thing that people can't understand on paper is how the car feels. My old cayman is still the best drivers car Ive ever owned and it was only 295hp and had 0-60 times of 5.7s but that didnt matter to me since the handling was so precise. The R8 has won or come in the top 3 best drivers car since its been in the market.

Many of these M owners are starting to act like chevy owners...all about HP. Who cares. The R8 is a much better car all around.

Too much kool aid in this forum.
Not me. Don't get me wrong, the R8 is an amazing car, but AWD just isn't my thing no matter how fast/nice a car is. It's why I have no interest in owning the GTR. For the money of an R8, I'd get a 911. I'm pretty sure a lot of people here could easily buy a much more expensive car, but choose not to for various reasons.
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      03-19-2013, 05:12 PM   #60
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Not me. Don't get me wrong, the R8 is an amazing car, but AWD just isn't my thing no matter how fast/nice a car is. It's why I have no interest in owning the GTR. For the money of an R8, I'd get a 911. I'm pretty sure a lot of people here could easily buy a much more expensive car, but choose not to for various reasons.
Your reasoning is completely understandable. I am just trying to get at those people slamming cars that are much more expensive then the M3 simply because they cant smoke the e92 M3 in a straight line. I am looking at 997 GT3 for my next car and that relatively low hp for the $$, but hey I love pcars.

By the way, I love the way your car came out with the GTS aero!
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      03-19-2013, 05:31 PM   #61
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Not me. Don't get me wrong, the R8 is an amazing car, but AWD just isn't my thing no matter how fast/nice a car is. It's why I have no interest in owning the GTR. For the money of an R8, I'd get a 911. I'm pretty sure a lot of people here could easily buy a much more expensive car, but choose not to for various reasons.
Dude siiiiiiiiiick pic of your car!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
Your reasoning is completely understandable. I am just trying to get at those people slamming cars that are much more expensive then the M3 simply because they cant smoke the e92 M3 in a straight line. I am looking at 997 GT3 for my next car and that relatively low hp for the $$, but hey I love pcars.

By the way, I love the way your car came out with the GTS aero!
I can't wait till you pull the trigger! Your M3 is sick for now too though
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      03-19-2013, 08:32 PM   #62
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I really love how the r8 drives and looks. but if I was paying that premium of 100k for a car, I would certainly not buy something that performs no better than an m3.

If someone let me choose of course I would take the R8 V8 but not if I had to pay new or used.

Something about paying for a 100k car (even if used still pricey) to know it performs the same as a 60k m3 regardless of how much I like the feel.

M3 with a nice xpipe and exhaust sounds better than the audi to me as well.

To be clear it does not look as good and I love the driving position and experience as it feels like a supercar but unless the car has supercar performance I just think its a bit silly, atleast to me.

Really has been deemed as a disapointment by most in terms of performance which is why the v10 was so welcomed.

And yes I have driven one for 2 weeks at one point
One could make the same argument for a $35,000 Mustang with performance equal to a $70,000 M3.
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      03-19-2013, 08:42 PM   #63
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One could make the same argument for a $35,000 Mustang with performance equal to a $70,000 M3.
Yeah but mustang has shit build quality and tech where as an m3 has similar or better build quality and technology than an r8.
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      03-19-2013, 10:17 PM   #64
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R8 has more torque.
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      03-20-2013, 12:23 AM   #65
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Yeah but mustang has shit build quality and tech where as an m3 has similar or better build quality and technology than an r8.
Almost double the price better build quality? Falling back on build quality and tech is an excuse... it may be true, but it is an excuse nonetheless. When the two cars put in similar lap times, does the M3 owner go over to the Mustang owner and say "yeah it was close but my I have better build quality"?
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      03-20-2013, 01:09 AM   #66
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I pull on r8 v8 the same as I pull on 1m...
Weird cause the R8 is A LOT faster then the the 1M!

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