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      03-18-2013, 12:53 AM   #23
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no actually. i was close to doing the M cruise to san diego some time mid-late last year but had something come up last minute. lets hope both of our cars are finished in time for this cruise. it sounds like a lot of fun.
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      03-18-2013, 10:15 AM   #24
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have you ever driven the v8 r8 for an extended period of time? I used to own a supercharged e92 M3 and even with the SC I much prefer the driving experience in the R8 vs the M3. it sounds like you are quick to judge the r8 based on what you've read about it. i was too until i bought one. the M3 is a great car but I wouldn't go back
I really love how the r8 drives and looks. but if I was paying that premium of 100k for a car, I would certainly not buy something that performs no better than an m3.

If someone let me choose of course I would take the R8 V8 but not if I had to pay new or used.

Something about paying for a 100k car (even if used still pricey) to know it performs the same as a 60k m3 regardless of how much I like the feel.

M3 with a nice xpipe and exhaust sounds better than the audi to me as well.

To be clear it does not look as good and I love the driving position and experience as it feels like a supercar but unless the car has supercar performance I just think its a bit silly, atleast to me.

Really has been deemed as a disapointment by most in terms of performance which is why the v10 was so welcomed.

And yes I have driven one for 2 weeks at one point
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      03-18-2013, 11:18 AM   #25
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I really love how the r8 drives and looks. but if I was paying that premium of 100k for a car, I would certainly not buy something that performs no better than an m3.

If someone let me choose of course I would take the R8 V8 but not if I had to pay new or used.

Something about paying for a 100k car (even if used still pricey) to know it performs the same as a 60k m3 regardless of how much I like the feel.

M3 with a nice xpipe and exhaust sounds better than the audi to me as well.

To be clear it does not look as good and I love the driving position and experience as it feels like a supercar but unless the car has supercar performance I just think its a bit silly, atleast to me.

Really has been deemed as a disapointment by most in terms of performance which is why the v10 was so welcomed.

And yes I have driven one for 2 weeks at one point
I get that. If you're all about comparing performance/performance numbers on the two cars then you may as well go with the M3 because you'll spend 1/2 as much and have similar performance. However after owning and driving both the only comparison in performance in my opinion is straight line speed/time, and that varies on how good the M3 driver is and if he can control the tire spin on take off (which I could not master haha). In other categories however the R8 feels more planted and the AWD is magnificent for eliminating tire spin. Because of this and the fact that the R8 has so much more torque makes you feel like you're going faster, even though that may not be the case. I'm definitely a fan of both cars and love the M3, hence why I'm still involved in a ton of M3 events. For me though I just like the look, feel and driving experience of the R8 much more. Also, the aftermarket M3 exhausts sound amazing (I had full Akra Evo on my M) but the R8 sounds exotic.. its magnificent.

At the end of the day these are two great cars and it is up to the individual and what they are looking for when buying either. Racing stop light to stop light, who has more horsepower, or who has faster 0-60 times has no importance in my life whatsoever. I know there will always be someone out there with a faster car than me, so the R8 is perfect for what I was looking for.
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      03-18-2013, 11:31 AM   #26
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2 races in the video, jump to 2:41 to see the second.

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      03-18-2013, 07:38 PM   #27
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Yes, the R8 and Bentley both suck. Honestly, what's the point of stuff like this. At this overall level of car, it is all subjective. All these cars are superb and will all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I guarantee that if you take 100 drivers who have driven neither car ever before, and make them do a track session, the vast majority will turn faster lap times in the R8. Maybe a hand full of super-skilled people will be able to get the M3 around faster.

Most people who buy a Bentley are also seeking a level of luxury and exclusivity way beyond the M3.

If you want to drag, just get a GTR, Viper, Vette, Shelby, etc. and call it a day.
I hate how car makers are focusing on huge HP numbers and cars are getting fatter and loosing feel. Its ridiculous how much fatter the M3 has gotten over the years. Kind of reminds me why i sold the R35 GT-R, sure it can go very fast but requires minimal effort and skill from the driver to deliver results, i find the M3 more involving even though its still fat. After a while the GT-R got so boring to drive i was fed up with it, the only time it would bring me a smile would be when i punched the accelerator from a stop, i stopped dreaming about driving it and thats when i sold it. Next gen M3 and M4 will surely come standard with 20 inch wheels and the next generation will come with 22 inch wheels and 1000 unusable HP. I really hope car manufacturers cap the HP at what we have right now and focus on making a lighter more precise car.
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      03-18-2013, 07:54 PM   #28
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It really should be no surprises that the m3 beats the R8, especially the Dct m3 given they are virtually the same weight. Same hp (m3 puts down more to the wheels consistently) and if the DCt is present than the tranny is way better.

The R8 just looks faster lol and looks like a lambo or supercar but when you break it down not so much.

I think audi really missed the mark with weight though. Has an all aluminum frame and it was a build from the ground up for their supercar and still ways 3500 pounds for the v8.

Really given how a vette weighs 3100, there is no reason a bespoke supercar from audi made of aluminum could not be in the 3200-3300 range at the most
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      03-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by track_warrior View Post
I hate how car makers are focusing on huge HP numbers and cars are getting fatter and loosing feel. Its ridiculous how much fatter the M3 has gotten over the years. Kind of reminds me why i sold the R35 GT-R, sure it can go very fast but requires minimal effort and skill from the driver to deliver results, i find the M3 more involving even though its still fat. After a while the GT-R got so boring to drive i was fed up with it, the only time it would bring me a smile would be when i punched the accelerator from a stop, i stopped dreaming about driving it and thats when i sold it. Next gen M3 and M4 will surely come standard with 20 inch wheels and the next generation will come with 22 inch wheels and 1000 unusable HP. I really hope car manufacturers cap the HP at what we have right now and focus on making a lighter more precise car.
I don't disagree but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. For a large part of the population, HP and stop light racing has been proven to increase the size of your wanker and there is a huge focus on it. This obsession transcends makes, models and age groups IMO. Even M3 owners are obsessed with it and the M3 is far from a dragster and was never meant to be but it doesn't stop the HP/racing fetish. Case in point, if the M3 would have lost horrendously to the R8 it would have been a failure regardless of the car's other attributes or qualities. If the next M3 came in at 395 HP but weighed 250 lbs less, it would be considered a failure to most
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      03-18-2013, 08:47 PM   #30
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If the M3 is so much better than why does the R8 start at twice as much. R8 is a beautiful car. You could take a VT3 M3 and race a twin turbo R8 V10. Both cars would be as fast as they can be made. I would take R8.
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      03-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #31
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Honestly i didnt read everything but some from page 1 and I have to say... it is all about the driver... When I go to track days I often see good drivers in the s2000, evo, sti, e46 m3 that are tearing everything up. When I see people on there with their ferrari, maserati, and "some" porsches theyre always spinning out in beginner groups etc. Sadly most super cars are built and bought for the "I have money" factor. Rarely do you see good drivers in their ferraris etc. (I do see a lot of good porsche drivers on the track) My last track day a Maserati spun out in front of me on a straight and almost hit me == I am not saying there arent any but I really respect those that do drive it like how it was made to be driven. Offtopic rant: Those who buy super cars/sports cars and dont track them but only whine about how stiff the ride is should all just stfu and buy a bentley or a 550 or 335 or e550 etc... stop buying those AMG and M cars... I went to a dealership before and this Chinese lady in her 50s was arguing about her suspension being broken in her M6 because her daughter's 335 rides better.
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      03-18-2013, 09:24 PM   #32
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don't know about stupid drag racing but here's a video of me chasing, finally catching and passing a V10 R8

... it felt so good that I forgot my lines after the pass..

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      03-18-2013, 09:34 PM   #33
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don't know about stupid drag racing but here's a video of me chasing, finally catching and passing a V10 R8

... it felt so good that I forgot my lines after the pass..

Nice kill!

Another drag race
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      03-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #34
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If the M3 is so much better than why does the R8 start at twice as much. R8 is a beautiful car. You could take a VT3 M3 and race a twin turbo R8 V10. Both cars would be as fast as they can be made. I would take R8.
You must have no business background which is cool. Price point is not based on performance purely. Exclusivity is a big factor hence the price difference between the M5 and M6. Same performance but M6 way more expensive. There is value in exclusivity and rarity which the R8 offers. However is that worth double the price? I think not which is my whole arguement.

And the guy that said the m3 has gotten so fat makes no sense. The e46 weighed 150 pounds less. People have weighed their e92's and have consistently came in at 3550-3600. e46's came in at 3400-3450 when owners weight them.

I hardly think 150 pounds, the size of one small driver is drastically getting fatter. Compared to all the cars out there, the e92 m3 at 3600 pounds is still lighter than everything except the exotics and a vette .
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      03-18-2013, 09:40 PM   #35
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don't know about stupid drag racing but here's a video of me chasing, finally catching and passing a V10 R8

... it felt so good that I forgot my lines after the pass..

Awesome track but looks scary if you go off.
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      03-18-2013, 09:45 PM   #36
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Here is a great thread where 5 guys weighed their e46 m3's. The lightest stripper m3 was 3400. Rest were in the 3450 and above.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e90...ht-e46-m3.html

Compare to the "fat" e92 m3 that weighs 3520-3600 depending on how much fuel was used in the particular thread but there are many out there online.



So 100-125 pounds if that heavier and that is for the DCt. Manual weighs 46 pounds less than the dct even which the 3520 pound car which was by member swamp was a dct

Funny how much in their heads it is for people thinking the m3 was so light and small last generation and the e92 is some heavy tank. For the size, the full list of options and the safety stuff, 3550 is really quite light. considering ferrari's, lambos and the like are now 3400 plus pounds
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      03-18-2013, 09:52 PM   #37
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And the guy that said the m3 has gotten so fat makes no sense. The e46 weighed 150 pounds less. People have weighed their e92's and have consistently came in at 3550-3600. e46's came in at 3400-3450 when owners weight them.

I hardly think 150 pounds, the size of one small driver is drastically getting fatter. Compared to all the cars out there, the e92 m3 at 3600 pounds is still lighter than everything except the exotics and a vette .
You know whats funny is that many people on this forum say the E9x Gen. M's are "porkier" than last gen. but I agree with you that 150 lbs. is not much weight at all....Especially when the new M3's have 81hp over the old E46 M3's, 333hp...

The new M4 is rumored to be 300lbs less than the current gen. All I can say is, if its true, the new M4 will be a missile!!!
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      03-18-2013, 10:07 PM   #38
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If the M3 is so much better than why does the R8 start at twice as much. R8 is a beautiful car. You could take a VT3 M3 and race a twin turbo R8 V10. Both cars would be as fast as they can be made. I would take R8.
You must have no business background which is cool. Price point is not based on performance purely. Exclusivity is a big factor hence the price difference between the M5 and M6. Same performance but M6 way more expensive. There is value in exclusivity and rarity which the R8 offers. However is that worth double the price? I think not which is my whole arguement.
Ok fine, price is absolutely no indicator of performance or exclusivity. Yeah right. The Veyron costs a lot. It is expensive. It is rare. An M3 is a mass production car. So if cost means nothing about a car, what does? The more expensive, faster, and rarer a car is, the more desirable it is.
Oh and by the way stop making yourself look like a genius. On another thread you said that ones dyno results were bad because they had poor compression. When actually his car was fine, it just wasn't revved to redline.
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      03-18-2013, 10:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
don't know about stupid drag racing but here's a video of me chasing, finally catching and passing a V10 R8

... it felt so good that I forgot my lines after the pass..
Now THAT is what I'm talking about Real men don't measure the size of their wanker by who wins the stop light race or whose engine makes the most HP... they take it to the track and duke it out there
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      03-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by M3takesNYC
You must have no business background which is cool. Price point is not based on performance purely. Exclusivity is a big factor hence the price difference between the M5 and M6. Same performance but M6 way more expensive. There is value in exclusivity and rarity which the R8 offers. However is that worth double the price? I think not which is my whole arguement.
Over 5 years there were a total of ~50,000 M3s sold and distributed in the US. Over the past 5 years there were only a total of ~4,500 R8s distributed in the US. Double the price for 10% production? Absolutely yes, supply and demand.

Last edited by Giggs; 03-19-2013 at 12:34 AM.
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      03-19-2013, 01:45 AM   #41
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As I said it certainly explains a decent markup over the m3 but at double the price point I think the exclusivity must include more than the look of the car with zero performance benefit. This is subjective but the bottom line is the r8 is pricier not because its a better car but rather a more exclusive car.
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      03-19-2013, 01:51 AM   #42
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You know whats funny is that many people on this forum say the E9x Gen. M's are "porkier" than last gen. but I agree with you that 150 lbs. is not much weight at all....Especially when the new M3's have 81hp over the old E46 M3's, 333hp...

The new M4 is rumored to be 300lbs less than the current gen. All I can say is, if its true, the new M4 will be a missile!!!
And its less than 150 as I posted links to several owners weigh ins and its really about 120 pounds or less for some depending on options or tranny.

100 pounds is simply not going to matter when the mass is spread out throughout the car. Especially considering the e92 has 19 inch wheels, is bigger dimensions and has a lot more technology-you can see they really did cut weight in a lot of areas to stay within this 3550 range.

Its all in peoples heads when they get stuck on the e46 m3 being some feather light and "more nimble" and more track worthy because its lighter. The facts speak for themselves. The e46 m3 is not any perceptable degree lighter than the e92 and can be matched by emptying or filling the gas tank or not having 1 passenger.
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      03-19-2013, 02:00 AM   #43
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As I said it certainly explains a decent markup over the m3 but at double the price point I think the exclusivity must include more than the look of the car with zero performance benefit. This is subjective but the bottom line is the r8 is pricier not because its a better car but rather a more exclusive car.
Well the reality is you're wrong. I say that with all due respect.
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      03-19-2013, 02:07 AM   #44
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Well in reality the R8 V8 is a well-considered a poor mans R8 and a disapointment in performance from any enthusiast familiar.

I personally don't like to own the botton model of any car but more power to you. More show than go is something everyone I have heard talk about the v8 and why audi quickly put a v10 in the car to actually make it perform as well as it looks.

You bought yours used and the used market is a different market in terms of pricing, exclusivity etc so this really only applies to new car buyers
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