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      03-17-2013, 02:50 PM   #1
rubyM3
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AFE stage 3 Intake or Macht Schnell Intake?

Is an intake upgrade worth the money in an already nicely tuned stock intake?

The gains are only at higher rmps and will make the M intake sound completely different?

Combined with full exhaust, intake, pulleys and ecu reflash/dyno maybe it would be worth it at this point?

Macht Schnell w/air scoops 8-12 whp
AFE 15hp w/air scoops

Thanks in advacne
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      03-17-2013, 06:04 PM   #2
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replacing just the filter with a high flow will give you 4-5hp

Replacing the box with MS seems to give you another 3-4hp.

That is why most go with just a filter as even the 3-4 with the MS airbox seems to be hit or miss.

THe stock box is so well designed. Probably the best design I have ever seen on any car including ferraris, lambo, aston and road race cars
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      03-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC
replacing just the filter with a high flow will give you 4-5hp

Replacing the box with MS seems to give you another 3-4hp.

That is why most go with just a filter as even the 3-4 with the MS airbox seems to be hit or miss.

THe stock box is so well designed. Probably the best design I have ever seen on any car including ferraris, lambo, aston and road race cars
+1
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      03-20-2013, 10:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyM3 View Post
Is an intake upgrade worth the money in an already nicely tuned stock intake?

The gains are only at higher rmps and will make the M intake sound completely different?

Combined with full exhaust, intake, pulleys and ecu reflash/dyno maybe it would be worth it at this point?

Macht Schnell w/air scoops 8-12 whp
AFE 15hp w/air scoops

Thanks in advacne

You won't get 15hp with the AFE and scoops, probably more in line with the Matt Schnell, also I had a oem replacement filter and now the AFE Stg. 2 w/ scoops. The only difference I notice over the replacement high flow filter with the AFE Stg. 2 is the sound. There is definitely more intake growl with the full setup over just a replacement panel filter.

Dave
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      03-21-2013, 08:11 AM   #5
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Waste of money, little to no power gain except in your mind since you'll be trying to justify spending all that money. Get a drop in filter and call it a day.
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      03-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar
Waste of money, little to no power gain except in your mind since you'll be trying to justify spending all that money. Get a drop in filter and call it a day.
+1
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      03-21-2013, 09:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Waste of money, little to no power gain except in your mind since you'll be trying to justify spending all that money. Get a drop in filter and call it a day.
+1
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      03-21-2013, 10:38 AM   #8
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I just dynoed and have some surprising results:
My car is stock with with a recently updated 240e software. I did this dyno as a baseline as I am getting ESS tune and would like to compare. 4 runs total were done today (run 009 - 012).

Runfile 001: stock everything and the way the car came from the factory (build date oct 2011)
Runfile 010: 240e software with AA green filter drop in (2nd pull)
Runfile 012: 240e software OEM filter with 22,000km on the filter (dirty) - 2nd pull. So this is really interesting for me. Some people might say that the car was adapting with each run, maybe, when I get my tune, I will run OEM filter first on the dyno, then switch back to AA and see what happens

Runs were done using 94 octane
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Last edited by Superfly_M3; 03-21-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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      03-21-2013, 10:39 AM   #9
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Here is a pick of run 001 and 012 with AFR
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      03-21-2013, 10:55 AM   #10
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You can not claim that aa drop in filter provides a loss of 7 whp compared to oem.
At worst it would provide no gains.
I may have to do best of 3 to determine the figures.
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      03-21-2013, 10:57 AM   #11
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Data is there, my testing is described thouroughly. Take it as you want.
What makes you think the AA can't lose power?

There is also a spike near redline if you look closely, a spike of 3-4whp
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      03-21-2013, 10:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
You won't get 15hp with the AFE and scoops, probably more in line with the Matt Schnell, also I had a oem replacement filter and now the AFE Stg. 2 w/ scoops. The only difference I notice over the replacement high flow filter with the AFE Stg. 2 is the sound. There is definitely more intake growl with the full setup over just a replacement panel filter.

Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Waste of money, little to no power gain except in your mind since you'll be trying to justify spending all that money. Get a drop in filter and call it a day.
+1

I use a drop in filter and the only difference i notice is sound, 3-5hp is to little to tell the sound alone was worth every penny for my AA filter.
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      03-21-2013, 01:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
Here is a pick of run 001 and 012 with AFR
Run #1 or #2 is never representative for a baseline. It takes atleast three - four runs at minimum to get an accurate base.

Can you post run three?

Thanks for sharing your results, I always like to see this!
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      03-21-2013, 01:25 PM   #14
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Run 009 - 012 were done in less then 40min. I changed the filter to OEM after run 010. I don't have the files as I just snapped a picture of the dyno. I will be going back tomorrow to dyno the ESS tune. This time I'll run 5-6 times and start with OEM filter and swtich to AA after run 3. I'll start a new thread with the results.

Also worth noting, Run 002 (which was done right after run 001) dynoed at 341whp, so assuming that run 003 would have yielded 345ish there is still a huge difference between that and run 009-012

Last edited by Superfly_M3; 03-21-2013 at 01:40 PM. Reason: 40 min
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      03-21-2013, 01:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
replacing just the filter with a high flow will give you 4-5hp

Replacing the box with MS seems to give you another 3-4hp.

That is why most go with just a filter as even the 3-4 with the MS airbox seems to be hit or miss.

THe stock box is so well designed. Probably the best design I have ever seen on any car including ferraris, lambo, aston and road race cars
The airbox isn't changed, only the Intake Tract assembly & Filter. Here's a dyno that will show incremental gains of the intake vs baseline:



More details of these buildups in this post here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...38&postcount=3
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      03-21-2013, 04:04 PM   #16
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One thing i liked about the MS stage intake (aside from the additional hp I realized) was the sound. The moment it was installed the car just sounded like a beast.

Here are the results that I saw:

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      03-21-2013, 04:25 PM   #17
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Esquire:

Looking at your graph and the one I posted above. Your powerband seems to be more "peaky" between 7k - redline where as mine flattens out. Even more so with the MS Intake. Why do you think that is?
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      03-21-2013, 04:37 PM   #18
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MS Stage II dyno findings and results:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570629


A drop in filter makes more power than the stock filter

BUT

The MS Stage II made MORE power than the drop in filter alone
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      03-21-2013, 06:21 PM   #19
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I say get a MS Stg 2 or be like me and get the Dinan carbon intake. I felt the the added power immediately after my Dinan install, but didn't feel anything when I just had the BMC drop-in.
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      03-21-2013, 06:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
You won't get 15hp with the AFE and scoops, probably more in line with the Matt Schnell, also I had a oem replacement filter and now the AFE Stg. 2 w/ scoops. The only difference I notice over the replacement high flow filter with the AFE Stg. 2 is the sound. There is definitely more intake growl with the full setup over just a replacement panel filter.

Dave
Scoops.....

Seriously, does anyone really believe that these do anything?
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      03-21-2013, 07:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
Esquire:

Looking at your graph and the one I posted above. Your powerband seems to be more "peaky" between 7k - redline where as mine flattens out. Even more so with the MS Intake. Why do you think that is?
Well for one thing the scale on your graph is different than the scale on mine - which impacts how the results are graphically represented.

For another thing, I believe that each of these engines coming out of the factory are unique creatures - they all have slightly varying characteristics. EAS can probably be the first to testify to this - they've dyno'd a number of completely stock M3's with statistically significant variations in horsepower. That tells me that no two cars are built alike.

Finally, i would surmise conditions have some mild impact as well on the shape of the curve - though I can't say for sure.

Again though, I suspect that the biggest reason here is that differing scales of our two graphs.
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      03-22-2013, 09:17 AM   #22
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I would choose MS stg 2 intake. It makes an avg of 12 hp and 5 tq. That is basically what I got after my install. The sound is quite agressive as well as looking very "oem-like" in the engine bay. The intake compliments a pulley and primary cat delete very very well..
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