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      09-03-2007, 10:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I'll be the mutually neutral mod who holds the money.
Fine by me if he accepts my bet.
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      09-03-2007, 12:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Fine by me if he accepts my bet.
You would think he would. He is the one who initially offered.
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      09-03-2007, 12:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
How many US military sales quotes are there exactly? I am aware of only one, which is what has been posted by member JEDI on:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81306

I've seen that same $49900 number posted several time before by people who will be buying through military sales, which is supposed to translate to $54k.

What do you mean you never mentioned $54k; read the first line of your first post on this thread. You are contradicting yourself and taking away from your own credibility.

So, let's get the facts straight:

1. What have people been quote by US Military sales?
2. What is the % discount qualified people get off MSRP?

That way, we can calculate the MSRP according to the US Military sales quote.

I will bet you $300 that the US M3 MSRP will be over $54k.
Here are the FACTS:

The MIL sales folks have NO price sheets yet and your guesses are as good as theirs at this point.

The MIL discount on a 2006 M3 was $6100.

The 08 M3 price is expected to be approx 55K (estimated through concensus) so the MIL discount on an 08 will be minumum $6500 making the MIL base 48K-49K (this is also an estimate).

The first two things are facts, as stated the last note contains estimates....nobody knows anything for certain, this is a FACT.

Hope that clears up a bit of the confusion.
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      09-03-2007, 12:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo2003 View Post
Here are the FACTS:

The MIL sales folks have NO price sheets yet and your guesses are as good as theirs at this point.

The MIL discount on a 2006 M3 was $6100.

The 08 M3 price is expected to be approx 55K (estimated through concensus) so the MIL discount on an 08 will be minumum $6500 making the MIL base 48K-49K (this is also an estimate).

The first two things are facts, as stated the last note contains estimates....nobody knows anything for certain, this is a FACT.

Hope that clears up a bit of the confusion.
Thanks for the clarification. From the way some of this information was posted, I was under the impression that if you were to pick up the phone and call Military sales, they would give you a quote, which is qualified as an estimate, and that the quote would not change according to who was answering the phone. It sounds like there is no such one number that people have been quoted, as an estimate or anything else. And, yes, it does sound like these are all guesses.
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      09-03-2007, 12:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
You would think he would. He is the one who initially offered.
He wants to bet under $56k. I want to bet over $54k, which has been the number associated with some of the military sales estimate posts. I'd say there is about a 25-30% chance this thing will come in between $55k-$56k, which is not low enough of a probability for me to place a bet against.
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      09-03-2007, 12:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
How many US military sales quotes are there exactly? I am aware of only one, which is what has been posted by member JEDI on:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81306

I've seen that same $49900 number posted several time before by people who will be buying through military sales, which is supposed to translate to $54k.

What do you mean you never mentioned $54k; read the first line of your first post on this thread. You are contradicting yourself and taking away from your own credibility.

So, let's get the facts straight:

1. What have people been quote by US Military sales?
2. What is the % discount qualified people get off MSRP?

That way, we can calculate the MSRP according to the US Military sales quote.

I will bet you $300 that the US M3 MSRP will be over $54k.
I am not contradicting myself, I said "If the formula works out thats an MSRP of between $54 and $56K USD.

Do you suffer from select quoting ?

If you would like the bet at $300 at WHAT I said "between 54-56K USD plus destination since Military does not pay destination" WE HAVE a BET,

If you can only find one military quote you better expand your horizons

I am willing to put my money where my info is how about you ?
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      09-03-2007, 12:34 PM   #29
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      09-03-2007, 12:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
I am not contradicting myself, I said "If the formula works out thats an MSRP of between $54 and $56K USD.

Do you suffer from select quoting ?

If you would like the bet at $300 at WHAT I said "between 54-56K USD plus destination since Military does not pay destination" WE HAVE a BET,

If you can only find one military quote you better expand your horizons

I am willing to put my money where my info is how about you ?
So you did mention $54k. Therefore, saying you never mentioned it is contradicting yourself. Period.

That's not one military quote. Search the site, and you'll see it's been brought up multiple times.

If you've read my response to Epacy, you'll see my thinking on the $56k number. It's not worth betting against, which has nothing to do with Military sales quotes or other sources but common sense. This car will be priced somewhere between $55k and $65k. I made it clear what I would bet against.
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      09-03-2007, 12:56 PM   #31
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Like I might Have thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
He wants to bet under $56k. I want to bet over $54k, which has been the number associated with some of the military sales estimate posts. I'd say there is about a 25-30% chance this thing will come in between $55k-$56k, which is not low enough of a probability for me to place a bet against.
Did you even read my Post again saying between $54-56K leaving some of the post out
is an error of omission, and not really a way to quote unless it is selective. Please lets not mince words.

So put your money down how about $500 ??

Or if we want to get our male Egos off the Table
how about if it comes in over 56k plus destination I
go to the Nurburgring and send a baseball cap
if it comes in under how about you send me a Red Sox
Cap ?

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      09-03-2007, 01:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
Did you even read my Post again saying between $54-56K leaving some of the post out
is an error of omission, and not really a way to quote unless it is selective. Please lets not mince words.

So put your money down how about $500 ??

Or if we want to get our male Egos off the Table
how about if it comes in over 56k plus destination I
go to the Nurburgring and send a baseball cap
if it comes in under how about you send me a Red Sox
Cap ?

Why should I put my hard earned cash against an event I assign a 25-30% probability to?

Why don't you put your money down on $54k then?

This isn't about egos. It's about $300!!! Let's keep it professional.

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      09-03-2007, 01:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Why should I put my hard earned cash against an event I assign a 25-30% probability to?

Why don't you put your money down on $54k then?

This isn't about egos. It's about $300!!! Let's keep it professional.

Read my post I said 54K-56K USD and you can't even quote me
correctly, Is that Professional ? You are assigning a 25-30% probability
and not taking those odds ? 1 in 4 ? you have a 75% chance if you are right !

so I said $500 or a less financially risky bet ? that saved egos
Its my hard earned money as well !

Maybe its time for a new post about this ? Get some opinions maybe a poll?

If you are going to criticize my post do it on its merits, My info is decent or I
wouldn't bother posting, I am going to Press day at Frankfurt I hope I cna give some more info, the 135 coupe will be a Hot Item along with the M

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      09-03-2007, 01:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
Read my post I said 54K-56K USD and you can't even quote me
correctly, Is that Professional ? You are assigning a 25-30% probability
and not taking those odds ? 1 in 4 ? you have a 75% chance if you are right !
Yes, in my book, 75% chance of winning is not reason enough to gamble. That's my attitude toward gambling. Others might have a different attitude. The professional reference was a joke (hence followed by a smiley).

I don't see how I misquoted you. Let's bet on $54.5k then, which is within the range you mentioned, so according to you, is highly possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
If you are going to criticize my post do it on its merits
Not sure why you are taking a "what is your source" question so personally, which is a totally justified thing to ask. You either simply reveal your source, or don't.
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      09-03-2007, 02:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Agreed, price point will be major factor determining long term sales of the M3. Priced too high and the 335 will be the obvious choice for those who aren't badge conscious and want bang for the buck performance.
Or a Vette. Or a Lotus.
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      09-03-2007, 02:40 PM   #36
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Hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yes, in my book, 75% chance of winning is not reason enough to gamble. That's my attitude toward gambling. Others might have a different attitude. The professional reference was a joke (hence followed by a smiley).

I don't see how I misquoted you. Let's bet on $54.5k then, which is within the range you mentioned, so according to you, is highly possible?

Not sure why you are taking a "what is your source" question so personally, which is a totally justified thing to ask. You either simply reveal your source, or don't.
Not Personally, I like most people with some integrity like to prove themselves right. Just like fully quoting someone, and not posting half arsed information

Lets see, You selectively quoted me, I offered to up the bet to
$500 of my hard earned money, you keep insisting that you
quoted me correctly, you slammed me for copy and paste and
you could only find one source the first time around for military

I even offered the Gentlemans bet and by your calculations you have
a 75% chance of winning.

You turned the word Professional you used into a Joke ?

I have a nice poll on Quotations ready to post using this thread as
an example,

Ready to Pony up and bet ? h

$500 or a baseball cap ?

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      09-03-2007, 02:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post


Not Personally, I like most people with some integrity like to prove themselves right. Just like fully quoting someone, and not posting half arsed information

Lets see, You selectively quoted me, I offered to up the bet to
$500 of my hard earned money, you keep insisting that you
quoted me correctly, you slammed me for copy and paste and
you could only find one source the first time around for military

I even offered the Gentlemans bet and by your calculations you have
a 75% chance of winning.

You turned the word Professional you used into a Joke ?

I have a nice poll on Quotations ready to post using this thread as
an example,

Ready to Pony up and bet ? h

$500 or a baseball cap ?

Dude, what are you smoking? How did I misquote you? What "half arsed information" did I post? Yes, there is no point in copying and pasting the same post on different threads--especially if it is information that has been shared here multiple times. I don't have the hour to dig into this site and reference every single instance. I referenced the most recent post. I determine the odds I would like to bet against, not you. I offered you a bet within your range, and you ignored it. Not interested in betting anymore since you are acting strange. Post whatever poll you want.
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      09-03-2007, 03:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
So you did mention $54k. Therefore, saying you never mentioned it is contradicting yourself. Period.

That's not one military quote. Search the site, and you'll see it's been brought up multiple times.

If you've read my response to Epacy, you'll see my thinking on the $56k number. It's not worth betting against, which has nothing to do with Military sales quotes or other sources but common sense. This car will be priced somewhere between $55k and $65k. I made it clear what I would bet against.
Chicken
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      09-03-2007, 03:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
Chicken
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      09-03-2007, 03:08 PM   #40
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HMMM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Dude, what are you smoking? How did I misquote you? What "half arsed information" did I post? Yes, there is no point in copying and pasting the same post on different threads--especially if it is information that has been shared here multiple times. I don't have the hour to dig into this site and reference every single instance. I referenced the most recent post. I determine the odds I would like to bet against, not you. I offered you a bet within your range, and you ignored it. Not interested in betting with you anymore since you are acting strange. Post whatever poll you want.

You also said"
So you did mention $54k. Therefore, saying you never mentioned it is contradicting yourself. Period.

That's not one military quote. Search the site, and you'll see it's been brought up multiple times. (I

If you've read my response to Epacy, you'll see my thinking on the $56k number. It's not worth betting against, which has nothing to do with Military sales quotes or other sources but common sense. This car will be priced somewhere between $55k and $65k. I made it clear what I would bet against.
SO, nice exit stage left, I am looney ? and your sane

No time to search now but challenge you and you want me to search ??l

$500 or a ball cap ? Either

Hint, a Yes or no answer would be good here
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      09-03-2007, 03:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post


SO, nice exit stage left, I am looney ? and your sane

No time to search now but challenge you and you want me to search ??l

$500 or a ball cap ? Either

Hint, a Yes or no answer would be good here
There, I took the 15 minutes and did a partial search. It is by no means comprehensive and I am not going to spend more time on it. Below are 5 more separate threads apart from the one I referenced earlier where info on US military pricing is posted/discussed. The last thread is specifically about that and runs for 4 pages. I am sure there are more posts.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...light=military

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ilitary&page=3

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ry#post1182962

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ary#post827028

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...light=military

And, my answer is no. I really do think you are acting strange, and way over-reacting to a simple "why is your source credible" question. If I posted similar information here, I would expect to get a similar question, and would not be bothered by it. Now, I'm really done with this exchange.
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      09-03-2007, 04:05 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
If the formula works out thats an MSRP of between $54 and $56K USD
They get advance info on projected US pricing from BMW AG in Germany who sets the pricing NOT BMW North America.

I can tell you as well that the Production schedule has US coupes being built for Magazines/Testing in January 1st part of February The Dealers all get one car with almost the Same Specs for Launch This takes place, End of January and February, Customer orders and
dealers with allocation custom orders Will likely start Early March, If all goes well a few may get built at the end of February, I was told to expect my car to be built tentatively around the middle of March early April at the latest. Like any company using suppliers they have to plan this far and further out. This info came from the planner who schedules these !

Hope this lends a little credence to the first post. I will be attending the auto show in Frankfurt on the Press days and will be testing a German version on a track in early to mid October.

I believe the M3 will have a lot of Packages that will push the car into the
mid to high 60K range and beyond in the US plus additional Dealer Markup



Hope that makes sense

American in Germany
Just curious... how will you be getting access to the Press Days 13-14th? I will be in Germany during that time and want to go, but didnt think it was possible, thinking it was only available to the Press on those days...

I fly out on the 15th, so I'll miss the Public Days.

Thanks for any info!
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      09-03-2007, 04:20 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Just curious... how will you be getting access to the Press Days 13-14th? I will be in Germany during that time and want to go, but didnt think it was possible, thinking it was only available to the Press on those days...

I fly out on the 15th, so I'll miss the Public Days.

Thanks for any info!
The 13th and 14th are trade days, and anybody can go, but you just pay more. Should be much quieter though.

I'm going on the 13th.
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      09-03-2007, 06:07 PM   #44
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Whew. Back to the original gist of the post...


Maybe we really can't set an exact production/release date yet for US cars because M-DCT is still in development.... although BMW is estimating Spring 2008 at this point...

If i recall correctly, there were a few delays with the E46 M3's launch as well..... something about engines or headers getting so damned hot they'd light the turf beneath them on fire while parked....
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