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      09-02-2007, 12:43 PM   #1
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Arrow Production to begin in March, Spring delivery not possible

This is what I was just told by a MIL sales rep....anyone care to comment, or know why this may not be the case?
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      09-02-2007, 12:53 PM   #2
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so that means we will be getting our cars in the summer if we are lucky to get first allocation?
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      09-02-2007, 01:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthStreetz View Post
so that means we will be getting our cars in the summer if we are lucky to get first allocation?
That's the $55,000 question lol...we will see if anyone else has different credible info.
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      09-02-2007, 02:56 PM   #4
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Wrong, USA Schedule and info here in Germany

If the formula works out thats an MSRP of between $54 and $56K USD
They get advance info on projected US pricing from BMW AG in Germany who sets the pricing NOT BMW North America.

I can tell you as well that the Production schedule has US coupes being built for Magazines/Testing in January 1st part of February The Dealers all get one car with almost the Same Specs for Launch This takes place, End of January and February, Customer orders and
dealers with allocation custom orders Will likely start Early March, If all goes well a few may get built at the end of February, I was told to expect my car to be built tentatively around the middle of March early April at the latest. Like any company using suppliers they have to plan this far and further out. This info came from the planner who schedules these !

Hope this lends a little credence to the first post. I will be attending the auto show in Frankfurt on the Press days and will be testing a German version on a track in early to mid October.

I believe the M3 will have a lot of Packages that will push the car into the
mid to high 60K range and beyond in the US plus additional Dealer Markup



Hope that makes sense

American in Germany
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      09-02-2007, 03:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
If the formula works out thats an MSRP of between $54 and $56K USD
They get advance info on projected US pricing from BMW AG in Germany who sets the pricing NOT BMW North America.

I can tell you as well that the Production schedule has US coupes being built for Magazines/Testing in January 1st part of February The Dealers all get one car with almost the Same Specs for Launch This takes place, End of January and February, Customer orders and
dealers with allocation custom orders Will likely start Early March, If all goes well a few may get built at the end of February, I was told to expect my car to be built tentatively around the middle of March early April at the latest. Like any company using suppliers they have to plan this far and further out. This info came from the planner who schedules these !

Hope this lends a little credence to the first post. I will be attending the auto show in Frankfurt on the Press days and will be testing a German version on a track in early to mid October.

I believe the M3 will have a lot of Packages that will push the car into the
mid to high 60K range and beyond in the US plus additional Dealer Markup



Hope that makes sense

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      09-02-2007, 03:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
If the formula works out thats an MSRP of between $54 and $56K USD
They get advance info on projected US pricing from BMW AG in Germany who sets the pricing NOT BMW North America.

I can tell you as well that the Production schedule has US coupes being built for Magazines/Testing in January 1st part of February The Dealers all get one car with almost the Same Specs for Launch This takes place, End of January and February, Customer orders and
dealers with allocation custom orders Will likely start Early March, If all goes well a few may get built at the end of February, I was told to expect my car to be built tentatively around the middle of March early April at the latest. Like any company using suppliers they have to plan this far and further out. This info came from the planner who schedules these !

Hope this lends a little credence to the first post. I will be attending the auto show in Frankfurt on the Press days and will be testing a German version on a track in early to mid October.

I believe the M3 will have a lot of Packages that will push the car into the
mid to high 60K range and beyond in the US plus additional Dealer Markup

Hope that makes sense

American in Germany
No this doesn't make sense. What first post are you referring to? Why are you copying and pasting the same post on two different threads?

If you will be writing with this kind of certainty, then you need to reference a source. I asked you this question on the other thread, you didn't answer. How do you know all this? Why would BMW selectively disclose pricing information to US military sales, which is not a strategic commerical partner? You extract information out of them at gun point or something? The US military price estimate has been surfing this site for months. I hope it turns out that way, but if it does, I bet it will be luck more than anything else.

Also, there is no need to pay dealer markup in the US. That's BS.
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      09-02-2007, 03:51 PM   #7
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Hmmmm............military intelligence is not always the best source for info......
.....Lol

Everything is reading 5 by 5 and we're still on track for Spring delivery.........
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      09-02-2007, 09:52 PM   #8
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My Mil Sales rep also said March production but for an allocation of April 30th or early May.

Jason
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      09-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
My Mil Sales rep also said March production but for an allocation of April 30th or early May.

Jason
not great news to hear...
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      09-02-2007, 10:38 PM   #10
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That might apply to military sales only.
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      09-02-2007, 11:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
No this doesn't make sense. What first post are you referring to? Why are you copying and pasting the same post on two different threads?

If you will be writing with this kind of certainty, then you need to reference a source. I asked you this question on the other thread, you didn't answer. How do you know all this? Why would BMW selectively disclose pricing information to US military sales, which is not a strategic commerical partner? You extract information out of them at gun point or something? The US military price estimate has been surfing this site for months. I hope it turns out that way, but if it does, I bet it will be luck more than anything else.

Also, there is no need to pay dealer markup in the US. That's BS.
A couple things...not that I'm defending gmund...
1. Military sales is usually a lot more open about giving information to their customers, cuz they don't worry about a lot of the BS most dealers do.
2. Everyone pays a dealer markup...it's called MSRP which is why you don't get to pay invoice on brand new cars...cars that have been sitting around for a while....

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      09-02-2007, 11:42 PM   #12
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Hmm I thought this was all well known?

Makes me more confident in the info coming to me from my Mil Sales rep.

Jason
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      09-03-2007, 12:58 AM   #13
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Ok Here goes

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
No this doesn't make sense. What first post are you referring to? Why are you copying and pasting the same post on two different threads?

If you will be writing with this kind of certainty, then you need to reference a source. I asked you this question on the other thread, you didn't answer. How do you know all this? Why would BMW selectively disclose pricing information to US military sales, which is not a strategic commercial partner? You extract information out of them at gun point or something? The US military price estimate has been surfing this site for months. I hope it turns out that way, but if it does, I bet it will be luck more than anything else.

Also, there is no need to pay dealer markup in the US. That's BS.


I am cutting and pasting to save a bit of time,

Before you come up with more reasons I am wrong
Shut up Sit Down and Buckle-up

The Military Sales companies are owned by German Dealerships and they
deal directly with people at BMW AG ( The Parent company) NOT BMW North America, so they get information often quickly and from the Germans.

Allocations, The American, German, and all other cars are built on an assembly line, they have allocation slots that the planner is responsible for and your car may have a German spec in front on the line and a Japanese spec behind you. the German parent company gives BMW North America
their spots, and give Military car sales theirs !

I have been through this in the 335 convertible I bought my wife.

Now If I wasn't Very confident, and Military car sales did not have a 15 year track record of coming in almost dead on with their estimates I wouldn't post any of this

I am not regular Military, (I applaud their dedication) I work for the Department of Defense, and live in Germany I could be a real ass and not post information when I go to the Frankfurt auto show, If I lived in Boston, and the intro was there I would hope you would share your experience if you went

I will drive the M3 in October, in Germany and if you want to read my post of the experience you can if not don't but do you have to criticize me if I have reasonable information, Is it perfect no, is anyone else's no.

I would throw a $100 to bet the MSRP is Under 57K USD not including destination, If you think it will be more you win If I am right you give me $100 hows that ? One of the Mods can hold the money I have checked out my sources and will not breach their trust, So choose to believe me or not, but don't criticize unless you have better info or show that I am unreliable in my information

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      09-03-2007, 01:31 AM   #14
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Thanks for the info!

I am not sure why we are not all holding hands hoping and praying for an MSRP that is around 55k. I have noticed there a group of people on this forum that appear to be actually hoping the car is more on the expensive side. Maybe because they want the car to be more exclusive or maybe because the new M is out of reach and would rather it stay as out of reach as possible because it is too much bear to have the M3 just passed arms lenghth.

Anyhoo, I think the most surprising thing about the new M3 is going to be its MSRP of 55k.

An MSRP of 55K will do several things for BMW M but the biggest two in my opinion are these,

1. Make the M3 the cheapest GT in its class yet have equal if not better performance than similar cars that cost 10K more.

2. Keep a large customer base so that BMW can actually sell 100K of these babies.

If I am wrong then I am wrong......

Jason
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      09-03-2007, 04:14 AM   #15
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FWIW

My Military rep has stated numerous times the delivery date for me will be March or early April. I know my rep is staying on top on this because my purchase depends on that delivery date...leaving in May back to the states and I want it delivered here first.

Also, expecting MSRP just under $55K ... like $54,980
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      09-03-2007, 07:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
I am cutting and pasting to save a bit of time,

Before you come up with more reasons I am wrong
Shut up Sit Down and Buckle-up

The Military Sales companies are owned by German Dealerships and they
deal directly with people at BMW AG ( The Parent company) NOT BMW North America, so they get information often quickly and from the Germans.

Allocations, The American, German, and all other cars are built on an assembly line, they have allocation slots that the planner is responsible for and your car may have a German spec in front on the line and a Japanese spec behind you. the German parent company gives BMW North America
their spots, and give Military car sales theirs !

I have been through this in the 335 convertible I bought my wife.

Now If I wasn't Very confident, and Military car sales did not have a 15 year track record of coming in almost dead on with their estimates I wouldn't post any of this

I am not regular Military, (I applaud their dedication) I work for the Department of Defense, and live in Germany I could be a real ass and not post information when I go to the Frankfurt auto show, If I lived in Boston, and the intro was there I would hope you would share your experience if you went

I will drive the M3 in October, in Germany and if you want to read my post of the experience you can if not don't but do you have to criticize me if I have reasonable information, Is it perfect no, is anyone else's no.

I would throw a $100 to bet the MSRP is Under 57K USD not including destination, If you think it will be more you win If I am right you give me $100 hows that ? One of the Mods can hold the money I have checked out my sources and will not breach their trust, So choose to believe me or not, but don't criticize unless you have better info or show that I am unreliable in my information

It will be great to hear your impression of Frankfurt auto show. That's not the issue at all. Not sure why you're getting worked up about that.

The issue is simply about where you are getting your pricing and manufacturing info. You and many other people on this site who will buy through military sales simply need to qualify their info or stop repeating the same price estimate on every thread as if it is a near truth. It's nothing new. If I were to repeadetly post that the M3 does 0-60 in 4.2s--which it might--on several threads and left it at that, people would immediately want to know the source. Why does that offend you? Where did I say you were right or wrong about the price in my response to your post (although I do think it will be higher than the number you quoted, but that's just my opinion)? I simply asked for the source--how is it that US military sales has pricing info before the rest of the dealers/magazines/interested parties in NA (you did say a few things about that in your response). I still believe the price is anyone's guess at this point.

The production dates are news. By the way, some US dealers have released info to people on this site which directly contradicts the dates you have posted, which is just another reason to ask for a source. You won't say more about your source, and that's fine. Production dates probably are not as guarded as the price anyway. But be aware that most of what you are posting has been posted around here many times for many months.

Also, the US military price "estimate" has been announced at just a little under $50k, and that apparently translates to a MSRP of $54k. Not my numbers. Just "reposting" what's been posted a hundred times. And I have no problem betting that the real MSRP will be more than $54k. Not sure why you are trying to bet around $57k if you are so confident in your source. If the source is so accurate, why are you talking in ranges and why tack on another $3k on the estimate? BMW AG changes the projected price every week?

Last edited by lucid; 09-03-2007 at 08:36 AM.
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      09-03-2007, 09:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
Thanks for the info!

I am not sure why we are not all holding hands hoping and praying for an MSRP that is around 55k. I have noticed there a group of people on this forum that appear to be actually hoping the car is more on the expensive side. Maybe because they want the car to be more exclusive or maybe because the new M is out of reach and would rather it stay as out of reach as possible because it is too much bear to have the M3 just passed arms lenghth.

Anyhoo, I think the most surprising thing about the new M3 is going to be its MSRP of 55k.

An MSRP of 55K will do several things for BMW M but the biggest two in my opinion are these,

1. Make the M3 the cheapest GT in its class yet have equal if not better performance than similar cars that cost 10K more.

2. Keep a large customer base so that BMW can actually sell 100K of these babies.

If I am wrong then I am wrong......

Jason
Agreed, price point will be major factor determining long term sales of the M3. Priced too high and the 335 will be the obvious choice for those who aren't badge conscious and want bang for the buck performance.
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      09-03-2007, 09:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post

Anyhoo, I think the most surprising thing about the new M3 is going to be its MSRP of 55k.
I think people will only be surprised by that fact because so many people have wildly speculated about the price being in the low to mid $60s. With no real basis, people started placing the new M3 around $65k because the RS4 was so overpriced at $66k. Just have to throw some common sense at the situation.
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      09-03-2007, 09:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Agreed, price point will be major factor determining long term sales of the M3. Priced too high and the 335 will be the obvious choice for those who aren't badge conscious and want bang for the buck performance.
So, basically you are calling all of us badege conscious?
Even at $60k, the M3 will be good bang for the buck at 414hp, STOCK. You can't just argue the 335 point assuming it is maxed out on mods.
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      09-03-2007, 09:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
It will be great to hear your impression of Frankfurt auto show. That's not the issue at all. Not sure why you're getting worked up about that.

The issue is simply about where you are getting your pricing and manufacturing info. You and many other people on this site who will buy through military sales simply need to qualify their info or stop repeating the same price estimate on every thread as if it is a near truth. It's nothing new. If I were to repeadetly post that the M3 does 0-60 in 4.2s--which it might--on several threads and left it at that, people would immediately want to know the source. Why does that offend you? Where did I say you were right or wrong about the price in my response to your post (although I do think it will be higher than the number you quoted, but that's just my opinion)? I simply asked for the source--how is it that US military sales has pricing info before the rest of the dealers/magazines/interested parties in NA (you did say a few things about that in your response). I still believe the price is anyone's guess at this point.

The production dates are news. By the way, some US dealers have released info to people on this site which directly contradicts the dates you have posted, which is just another reason to ask for a source. You won't say more about your source, and that's fine. Production dates probably are not as guarded as the price anyway. But be aware that most of what you are posting has been posted around here many times for many months.

Also, the US military price "estimate" has been announced at just a little under $50k, and that apparently translates to a MSRP of $54k. Not my numbers. Just "reposting" what's been posted a hundred times. And I have no problem betting that the real MSRP will be more than $54k. Not sure why you are trying to bet around $57k if you are so confident in your source. If the source is so accurate, why are you talking in ranges and why tack on another $3k on the estimate? BMW AG changes the projected price every week?
The getting worked up is when you decide to question both my sources and the fact that I saved time by cutting and pasteing a post to save time.

The $57 K was what I was told by my sources that it would not exceed
and it would likely be $55K I posted that originally either here or at the other M3 site.

Tell you what I will up the bet to $200 and lower mine to 56K not including
destination. I have never said $54K as that would be too low based on Military car sales and Diplomatic prices that have been around a long while
THE bet is out there take it or leave it but watch what you say when discussing my information, OKAY ?

Again the Military Car Sales are owned mostly by large German Dealers and
the Germans have a much better line of communication with BMW AG THE GERMAN HEADQUARTERS !

I will be at the Track Driving the M3 in October, by then we wont have much more info than now. US prices will not be ABOSOLUTELY officially set until right before launch because of the Dollar Euro Exchange rate. The 135 coupe will be launched at the same time, normally April.

Don't expect a lot more info until January/ February as most of the buzz will be on the ROW (rest of world ) cars.

Tell me if you have a mutually acceptable mod who will hold the money if you want the bet.
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      09-03-2007, 10:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
The getting worked up is when you decide to question both my sources and the fact that I saved time by cutting and pasteing a post to save time.

The $57 K was what I was told by my sources that it would not exceed
and it would likely be $55K I posted that originally either here or at the other M3 site.

Tell you what I will up the bet to $200 and lower mine to 56K not including
destination. I have never said $54K as that would be too low based on Military car sales and Diplomatic prices that have been around a long while
THE bet is out there take it or leave it but watch what you say when discussing my information, OKAY ?

Again the Military Car Sales are owned mostly by large German Dealers and
the Germans have a much better line of communication with BMW AG THE GERMAN HEADQUARTERS !

I will be at the Track Driving the M3 in October, by then we wont have much more info than now. US prices will not be ABOSOLUTELY officially set until right before launch because of the Dollar Euro Exchange rate. The 135 coupe will be launched at the same time, normally April.

Don't expect a lot more info until January/ February as most of the buzz will be on the ROW (rest of world ) cars.

Tell me if you have someone who will hold the money if you want the bet.

To make it interesting I will up the
How many US military sales quotes are there exactly? I am aware of only one, which is what has been posted by member JEDI on:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81306

I've seen that same $49900 number posted several time before by people who will be buying through military sales, which is supposed to translate to $54k.

What do you mean you never mentioned $54k; read the first line of your first post on this thread. You are contradicting yourself and taking away from your own credibility.

So, let's get the facts straight:

1. What have people been quote by US Military sales?
2. What is the % discount qualified people get off MSRP?

That way, we can calculate the MSRP according to the US Military sales quote.

I will bet you $300 that the US M3 MSRP will be over $54k.
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      09-03-2007, 10:05 AM   #22
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