BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
INDustry distribution
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-13-2013, 01:20 AM   #1
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
Brembo BBK vibrate under heavy braking

Guys, so my brembo start to vibrate only when they are getting hot or after multiple heavy braking.. when they start to vibrate, even light brake make the steering wheel vibrate. i can feel it by the vibration on the steering wheel (the brake pedal doesnt vibrate though). It happens since the day i installed the bbk.. i have cleaned the hub to make sure that the rotors sit flat, i have also bed in the brakes as well... maybe i didnt bed the rotor properly ? the way i did was going from 100 kph to 40 kph for about 15 times. what else could be the cause ?

How can you tell when abs kick in ? is it something like grinding noise ? i want to make sure that i didnt engage the abs when i did the bedding in process.

i have searched the whole threads in the forum about this brake judder but still cant find a solution

this is what the rotor look like, pad deposit ? but i dont think it is pad deposit because i always cool down the brakes after spirited driving, and never been into track.


Last edited by nightrain; 03-13-2013 at 01:57 AM.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 01:45 AM   #2
r53s65e90
8300
r53s65e90's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
543
Posts

 
Drives: r53 s65e90
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (0)

What does the front rotor look like? The rear that you show shouldn't be an issue. Brembo pads do form pad deposits when they overheat at the track. Hard to imagine how one can overheat them on the street though. I still have vibration from my last track event but it is getting better. Next time racing pads. Stock brembo pads suck.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 01:47 AM   #3
jacobe92
Lieutenant
jacobe92's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
444
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 Frozen Red
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cerritos, CA

iTrader: (2)

Vibration

I use to have drilled rotors on my Brembo's and after a full day of tracking I would fill the holes w/ brake pad deposits and get vibrations on my steering wheel while driving. A good power wash to my rotors and the vibrations disappear. I wish someone else talk to me a lot sooner because I must have wasted $500 plus "four alignments" altogether thinking it was the problem. GL
__________________

KW Clubsports, Brembo BBK Front 365mm Rear 345mm, Akrapovic-Evo, Dinan Toe-links, 18" Bronze TE-37 Front 18x9.5 et 20 Rear 18x10.5 et 22 w/ RS3's, Cusco Bar, Recaro Sportster CS Black Leather, Turner 90 MM Lug Extensions
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 01:52 AM   #4
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
What does the front rotor look like? The rear that you show shouldn't be an issue. Brembo pads do form pad deposits when they overheat at the track. Hard to imagine how one can overheat them on the street though. I still have vibration from my last track event but it is getting better. Next time racing pads. Stock brembo pads suck.
the picture above is the front brakes. Keep in mind these are the european spec brembo, it is slightly different hardware from you guys that have us spec brembo

What race pads do you recommend ? pagids ? but i have heard race pads dont do very well on the street, they have no "bites" when cold ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobe92 View Post
I use to have drilled rotors on my Brembo's and after a full day of tracking I would fill the holes w/ brake pad deposits and get vibrations on my steering wheel while driving. A good power wash to my rotors and the vibrations disappear. I wish someone else talk to me a lot sooner because I must have wasted $500 plus "four alignments" altogether thinking it was the problem. GL
Power wash ?? do you mean hose the rotor down with water so they have rust on them and brake on them afterwards ?
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 02:12 AM   #5
r53s65e90
8300
r53s65e90's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
543
Posts

 
Drives: r53 s65e90
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightrain View Post
the picture above is the front brakes. Keep in mind these are the european spec brembo, it is slightly different hardware from you guys that have us spec brembo

What race pads do you recommend ? pagids ? but i have heard race pads dont do very well on the street, they have no "bites" when cold ?
My bad. The fasteners look like the ones I have in the rear. Next time on the track I will use endless me20. Pagid rs29 or rs19 is really good too. I used them with stock brakes. Race pads are noisy. Race pads are a good way to get rid of deposits. Put them on for a week or so and they should clean up your discs from the stock deposits.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 02:37 AM   #6
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
My bad. The fasteners look like the ones I have in the rear. Next time on the track I will use endless me20. Pagid rs29 or rs19 is really good too. I used them with stock brakes. Race pads are noisy. Race pads are a good way to get rid of deposits. Put them on for a week or so and they should clean up your discs from the stock deposits.
so if i use race pads just to scrub the pad deposit, do i have to re bed them or just drive normally ?
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 02:39 AM   #7
Richard@M-World
Richard@M-World's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
683
Posts

 
Drives: NASA TTA #92 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: TX/IL

iTrader: (0)

Generally speaking, you shouldn't need racing pads on the street. But your problem does look like uneven pad deposits. I would contact your vendor and ask them what they can do to help you.

When ABS kicks in, you should feel a pulsation in your brake pedal.
__________________
Authorized AiM Dealer - Solo/Solo DL | SmartyCam HD | www.m-world.us
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #8
BimmerRob08
Major
BimmerRob08's Avatar
United_States
22
Rep
1,257
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 M3, Space Gray
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: KIKR (ABQ), NM

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightrain View Post
Guys, so my brembo start to vibrate only when they are getting hot or after multiple heavy braking.. when they start to vibrate, even light brake make the steering wheel vibrate. i can feel it by the vibration on the steering wheel (the brake pedal doesnt vibrate though). It happens since the day i installed the bbk.. i have cleaned the hub to make sure that the rotors sit flat, i have also bed in the brakes as well... maybe i didnt bed the rotor properly ? the way i did was going from 100 kph to 40 kph for about 15 times. what else could be the cause ?

How can you tell when abs kick in ? is it something like grinding noise ? i want to make sure that i didnt engage the abs when i did the bedding in process.

i have searched the whole threads in the forum about this brake judder but still cant find a solution



this is what the rotor look like, pad deposit ? but i dont think it is pad deposit because i always cool down the brakes after spirited driving, and never been into track.






You said you have had this problem since the day you installed your Brembo BBK? I've got the same problem with my AP BBK. Tried everything including race pad clean up and still got the same vibe in the steering when braking. At what speeds do you feel this vibration? Can you be specific?
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2013, 04:38 AM   #9
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
sorry for the late reply, yes i have had the problem since the day i installed the bbk..

Here what i have experienced:

1. In the early morning, when i just start the car and driving in the freeway, there is no vibration at all when i apply the brake. But then, after few light brakes from cruising speed e.g 120 km/h to 80 km/h, the steering wheel start to vibrate.

2. The deeper i apply the brake, the vibration get worse, especially when slowing down from high speed.

3. Under medium braking from high speed, let's say 180 km/h to 80 km/h, the vibration get worse. After that, even a light brake at 80 km/h, the steering wheel vibrates pretty bad. When this happens, if i use little or no brake for about 5 minutes, the vibration become less.

4. Braking from 150 km/h to 100 km/h give me a little vibration, however at the second time i do this, the vibration becomes worse.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2013, 04:49 AM   #10
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
here some more pictures, doesn't look like there are any pad deposits.

Appreciate 0
      04-19-2013, 07:39 AM   #11
///M Ryder
Grown Azz Man
///M Ryder's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
2,561
Posts

 
Drives: 2011.5 Dinan ///M3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sugar Land

iTrader: (5)

As someone stated above try to power wash the brakes. You could have deposits and not see it. A water hose won't work........Phil
__________________
2011.5 E92 Dinan///M3: SSII DCT- Comp, Prem 2, and Conv Pkg, Heated Seats, Enhanced Prem Sound, Edition Grills/Gills, M Performance Steering Wheel, Carbon Fiber Performance Spoiler, BMW Pedals, Dinan Exhaust, Dinan X-Pipe, Dinan Carbon Fiber Intake, Dinan Software Tune, Dinan DCT Tune, Dinan Pulley Kit, Dinan CH-R Wheels, Dinan Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Braces, Arkym Lip, IND M5 Mirror Caps, Carbon Reflectors, Lux H8 V3, Brembo 365mm BBK
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2013, 04:32 PM   #12
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
34
Rep
2,777
Posts

 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

I would try running some race pads for a while to scrub any pad deposits off of the rotors. IMO, that's what it has to be.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #13
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
41
Rep
3,482
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2013, 03:58 AM   #14
mlhj83
Scythe-Meister
mlhj83's Avatar
United Kingdom
22
Rep
1,035
Posts

 
Drives: '11 E92 M3 DCT ZCP
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
This.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2013, 07:47 PM   #15
r53s65e90
8300
r53s65e90's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
543
Posts

 
Drives: r53 s65e90
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
Great point. This probably explains why later kits (like the US 365 and 380 kits) have fasteners that look like the attached image: no matter how hard you torque this fastener, the disc will still be able to float unobstructed. Also explains why BMW probably designed their own rotor for the GTS kit, which is essentially the euro M monobloc caliper.

I still think a race pad would be the first thing to try out. Stock brembo pads behave very similarly to the OEM stock pads: when they overheat they create deposits that eventually should go away with normal driving.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #16
snook
Private First Class
1
Rep
127
Posts

 
Drives: e90m3, 2500hd, 95ltw
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

you can attempt to rebed or not.....

if you rebed, it might solve the vibration same day..

if you choose to do nothing....the vibration will go away by itself.. give it a few days of normal driving.


you choose.....
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2013, 12:12 AM   #17
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
As someone stated above try to power wash the brakes. You could have deposits and not see it. A water hose won't work........Phil
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I would try running some race pads for a while to scrub any pad deposits off of the rotors. IMO, that's what it has to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snook View Post
you can attempt to rebed or not.....

if you rebed, it might solve the vibration same day..

if you choose to do nothing....the vibration will go away by itself.. give it a few days of normal driving.


you choose.....
I still do not think it is pad deposit related because the judder ONLY happens when the brakes get hotter, when they are cold they never vibrate.. i also have emailed brembo couple of weeks back regarding this and still waiting for their comments..

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to go the OTHER way and suggest it's not pad deposit, since if it really IS pad deposit, the vibration issues would surface even when brake system is cold.

I suggest taking the brake rotor off and inspect the fasteners and make sure each one is torqued to specifications. Sounds to me like the rotor isn't expanding at consistent rate, or one or multiple fastener is binding the rotor preventing it from expanding, resulting in unbalanced rotor when it heats up, and unbalanced rotor causes enough "wobble" that translates into a vibration in the front end on braking.

I had similar "symptoms" on my MZ4 Coupe with 2 piece floating rotors, normally the first few laps the brake feels fine, then when I brake the front end shakes, but once the system cools off the car feels fine. It's only when I was removing my rotor rings to replace with new rings did I notice one of the fasteners appears to have bound up and was 10X more difficult to remove than all the others. Swapping to OEM rotors solved the problem, still yet to see if new rotor ring will prevent it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
Great point. This probably explains why later kits (like the US 365 and 380 kits) have fasteners that look like the attached image: no matter how hard you torque this fastener, the disc will still be able to float unobstructed. Also explains why BMW probably designed their own rotor for the GTS kit, which is essentially the euro M monobloc caliper.

I still think a race pad would be the first thing to try out. Stock brembo pads behave very similarly to the OEM stock pads: when they overheat they create deposits that eventually should go away with normal driving.
That is one possibility, but i have never disassembled the rotors from the hats so i am not sure if this is the case..
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2013, 01:09 AM   #18
Checkcaptain
Captain
Germany
40
Rep
995
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to Checkcaptain Send a message via Skype™ to Checkcaptain
Hey bro, brembo Europe sucks
I had the US spec brembo before, also I used the OEM GTS rotors before and now I have the Euro spec brembos, so I know all the difficulties and differences.
I made a Lot of experiences on street and on track since my car is a DD.
If I can help you Out shoot me a mail under my MSN or Skype contact since I have no PM rights here
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2013, 05:55 AM   #19
nightrain
Second Lieutenant
nightrain's Avatar
Indonesia
8
Rep
206
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 JZB
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indonesia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 F10 M5  [5.00]
2009 E92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkcaptain View Post
Hey bro, brembo Europe sucks
I had the US spec brembo before, also I used the OEM GTS rotors before and now I have the Euro spec brembos, so I know all the difficulties and differences.
I made a Lot of experiences on street and on track since my car is a DD.
If I can help you Out shoot me a mail under my MSN or Skype contact since I have no PM rights here
Hi, i will add your msn tonight, thanks before
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:03 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST