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      03-19-2013, 12:55 PM   #67
e92zero
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I am only speaking for myself here. I don't push my car hard and I rarely experienced this wheel hop or diff bang. However, for the life of me, I cannot understand the 3 points lob-sided mounting system that BMW used on our M3. How can it have even distribution of torque/load at the mounting locations? If someone with a more technical background can explain how this 3 point system is a better and more robust design than what a 4 point mount system can provide in terms of strength and longevity, I would really want to know. It maybe a just good enough design from BMW in terms of manufacturing cost?. Then there is that thread about broken diff bolts on cars that were not pushed hard at all and that got me worried. I plan to keep my car a long long time and it will be out of warrant soon. If the diff bolts fail later down the road, the bill to fix and replace the subframe seems very high. If this diff brace can help to complement the BMW 'over engineered' mounting system without adding NVH, I will be very interested. I am not in it for the wheel hop.

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      03-19-2013, 01:24 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92zero View Post
I am only speaking for myself here. I don't push my car hard and I rarely experienced this wheel hop or diff bang. However, for the life of me, I cannot understand the 3 points lob-sided mounting system that BMW used on our M3. How can it have even distribution of torque/load at the mounting locations? If someone with a more technical background can explain how this 3 point system is a better and more robust design than what a 4 point mount system can provide in terms of strength and longevity, I would really want to know. It maybe a just good enough design from BMW in terms of manufacturing cost?. Then there is that thread about broken diff bolts on cars that were not pushed hard at all and that got me worried. I plan to keep my car a long long time and it will be out of warrant soon. If the diff bolts fail later down the road, the bill to fix and replace the subframe seems very high. If this diff brace can help to complement the BMW 'over engineered' mounting system without adding NVH, I will be very interested. I am not in it for the wheel hop.
Perhaps it's the way I'm wired, I think more race than daily in any engineering thought processes- but I cant understand why they would have chosen to do it this way, and I've thought about it hard. An interesting side note is that they've utilized a 4 point mounting strategy in lesser powered M cars until the E9X chassis. I'm interested to climb under one of the first F80's that arrives at the local dealer,that's for sure.
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      03-19-2013, 01:53 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
i agree not trying to say i beat my car. just suprised when people say it doenst happen. it has never happened without me trying to induce it. i dont go to the track and get wheel hop so this fix serves no purpose for me. i manage the traction circle with my feet and hands.
Totally agree with you on that.

All fair points

Cheers,
e46e92
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      03-19-2013, 01:56 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
all tig welding is in an oxygen free environment (CS, SS, Inconel, Hastelloy, Duplex 2205, Ti or anything). it just is not in a box. i am an engineer. i have the science covered.
Well then you'd be aware that they're both acceptable practices dependent on industry and application. I don't have time or desire to get in a technical pissing match.More up close and personal photos of parts will be posted at some point for your viewing pleasure, I'll be sure to get some closeups of the welds for your discerning eye...I'm the least bit concerned.
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      03-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #71
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For those of us who are not skilled Tig welders with experience doing Ti welds, here is an introductory lesson:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...tanium-welding

It explains the "box" and recommends it for the best weld.

Were it me, I would just get the steel version of the brace . . . for much less money. But for the person who has a $5000 titanium exhaust, only the best will do and titanium is the best.
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      03-19-2013, 05:46 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
For those of us who are not skilled Tig welders with experience doing Ti welds, here is an introductory lesson:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...tanium-welding

It explains the "box" and recommends it for the best weld.

Were it me, I would just get the steel version of the brace . . . for much less money. But for the person who has a $5000 titanium exhaust, only the best will do and titanium is the best.
thank you...I'm too busy to dive into any more tech/fab bickering, in fact I'm done with it
The product will speak for itself soon enough...
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      03-19-2013, 06:19 PM   #73
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I'm experiencing wheel hop as well, but of a different sort. When accelerating, during shifts at high speeds, gears 3-4, there is a bit of vibration and slight wheel hop in the rear. I'm making 670whp, currently no DCT M3 is making that much power that I know of, so the rear suspension might need some upgrading at this power level. This does look like an interesting product and I sent them an email over a week ago but did not hear back, it might be in your spam folder, lol.

I'm not sure if this product would help over solid rear subframe, diff - bushings, and camber plates, but hopefully we can find out. There's been some great points made in this thread, let's see how all this pans out.
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      03-22-2013, 08:36 PM   #74
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Good find regarding the other product : http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=812356


Funny how a totally different person and different (similar goal) product seem to also have the "imaginary" benefits I mentioned of the rear feeling more solid and the DCT functioning much better. I guess it's quite an imaginary world we are living in...

This is only directed at those who went a little over the top with saying my claims were imaginary and totally impossible. Just had to say it after checking out that link



Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
VCM, Swamp, Malek - can either of you elaborate on how this product differs from a solid rear subframe (such as that discussed in THIS thread)? Is one a more thorough solution? Does one offer benefits that the other doesn't? Does one create negative effects that the other doesn't? Difficulty of install? It's a newb question, I know. But I'm contemplating a solution along these lines and am trying to understand the fundamental difference, to see which solution is (1) more thorough and (2) applies best to me)




Rick,

Maybe you can also comment on my above questions in regards to the difference between this solution and a Solid rear subframe. Would appreciate your input.

In addition to those questions, I noticed you discussed suspension as one of the contributing factors to creating the wheel hop. You mentioned that the suspension "amplifi[es] this motion via the springs." Do you find that that stiffer suspension (such as KW clubsports) minimize this motion/effect? If so, does this product still offer a worthwhile/noticeable improvement in wheel hop for a car that is equipped with a stiffer suspension.

I'm also curious to know (1) the weights of each of these units using each of the differing materials you mentioned (including Titanium) and (2) the prices for each of the differing materials (again including Titainum). If you're not comfortable mentioning price here in the open forums, feel free to PM me with pricing information.

Thanks to all. And sorry for the inexperienced question.


- esquire
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      03-25-2013, 03:08 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaizon View Post
I was the second car to receive the 335i variant and there is no NVH at all. The only thing that has changed is gear whine from everything being locked down.

The best thing you guys can do is drive a car that has it and compare for yourselves.
I guess you don't know what the "N" stands for in NVH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Yes, follow those instructions. Take a 70k 414 HP sports car, turn off the traction control, then drag race it from a standstill and complain about failures of the car.

What was BMW thinking? Making a car that couldn't launch on a wet road with the nannies off?

I can see why many of us have zero issues with hop or DCT issues. BMW must go crazy with warranty claims they KNOW in their gut is from abuse.

Guys, nothing wrong with picking at a car's flaws, but asking it to do what it wasn't and shouldn't be designed to do seems a bit odd.

Not saying you don't get wheel hop in other circumstances, and not saying this isn't a great product. I'm saying this is a bad example of what one has to do to get wheel hop.

Cheers,
e46e92
I can produce wheel hop in this car in situations that the car was most certainly designed for and don't remotely constitute abuse.




I like this product. Wheel hop really happens, broken diff bolts really happens and there is room for improvement. It's been well explained in a logical manner that makes sense to me (I am an engineer if that helps). While solid diff bushings would get you most of the way there, this product still provides significant improvement from what I can tell.

The issue for me is the price. I'd be in at half price.
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      03-25-2013, 07:35 PM   #76
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^ I agree that wheel hop can happen in situations which really aren't abuse. I'm sure Rick will be on here soon to announce the price and become a vendor but I believe the units will be going for $730 for the plate option. I think it's quite reasonable for what it does and all. Nothing on these cars is cheap. It's crazy how cheap you can get s/c kits on other cars...even like the CTS V.
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      03-26-2013, 07:52 PM   #77
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Thumbs up Tomorrow Diff lock installed

Soon to see Rick at DEFIV fabrications+design PA



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      03-26-2013, 08:35 PM   #78
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Good man! Congrats can't wait to see your impressions
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      03-27-2013, 11:11 AM   #79
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Soon to see Rick at DEFIV fabrications+design PA



break that thing in already will ya?!
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      03-27-2013, 01:03 PM   #80
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Interesting concept and most likely not a bad idea for high HP cars. I think pricing should be in the $500 range IMO. I have yet to have issues with wheel hop NA or supercharged but I do not have the power that some others on here do. Interested in more feedback from customers.
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      03-27-2013, 08:38 PM   #81
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I would have gone with you Maj and had it done to my car too...drive her down there, why trailer it...like Sal said, break her in!
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      03-27-2013, 10:35 PM   #82
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Thumbs up

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I would have gone with you Maj and had it done to my car too...drive her down there, why trailer it...like Sal said, break her in!
Hey Vinnie,

Rick diff lock installes takes about 5-6hrs compleation. Since he is about 1hr45min from me I wanted to make it a one day trip. Having the extra truck it was a great use for killing some time with the family.
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      03-27-2013, 10:43 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikB316 View Post
Good find regarding the other product : http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=812356

Funny how a totally different person and different (similar goal) product seem to also have the "imaginary" benefits I mentioned of the rear feeling more solid and the DCT functioning much better. I guess it's quite an imaginary world we are living in...

This is only directed at those who went a little over the top with saying my claims were imaginary and totally impossible. Just had to say it after checking out that link
Two wrongs don't make a right...

The internet is absolutely filled with folks making claims that some mod X or Y "feels" better (faster, louder, firmer, sexier, etc.) after it is installed. Ever hear of the placebo effect? It is the exact same thing going on here with cars. I don't know how many folks I have debated on this topic. Here is what it comes down to. Image the following thought experiment. Line up 10 identical cars with this mod and 10 without it. Test the cars (i.e. you personally drive them) in a random sequence but DO NOT induce wheel hop. Also conduct the testing on a very smooth road so any NVH changes are not a give away (not sure they would be but there is a chance of that). I would be willing to bet you pinks that you could not do any better than flipping a coin in guessing which cars have and which do not have this mod. I've had this discussion about all sorts of mods from wheel spacers and suspension cross braces to air filters and exhausts. We so desperately want to feel a true difference and thus viola, we do.

Now all that being said, I don't doubt that that product can reduce or eliminate wheel hop. In my humble opinion that is all it must do to be successful and very worthwhile.
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      03-27-2013, 10:45 PM   #84
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@AUTOcouture View Post
break that thing in already will ya?!
Hahaha. Since it's spring the temp should start to rise and should get more seat time with the M. + Rs3 don't like the cold to much & having 200hp more from ESS/ACM don't help.
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      03-27-2013, 10:54 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
maybe it is the picture, but the welds on the brace in picture don't look so hot.
I am a crappy welder myself. However, I've speced a lot of welding as an engineer and know a good weld from a bad one, cosmetically and otherwise. Thus I completely agree here at least cosmetically. Titanium is known to support some absolutely stunning welds cosmetically. No, they don't have to look this good to perform, but they are an indication of the welders skill and experience.

Here are some top notch Ti welds from a cosmetic perspective. They are like jewelry or art to my eyes... :
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      03-28-2013, 09:02 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I am a crappy welder myself. However, I've speced a lot of welding as an engineer and know a good weld from a bad one, cosmetically and otherwise. Thus I completely agree here at least cosmetically. Titanium is known to support some absolutely stunning welds cosmetically. No, they don't have to look this good to perform, but they are an indication of the welders skill and experience.

Here are some top notch Ti welds from a cosmetic perspective. They are like jewelry or art to my eyes... :
wow those are some nice welds!
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      03-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I am a crappy welder myself. However, I've speced a lot of welding as an engineer and know a good weld from a bad one, cosmetically and otherwise. Thus I completely agree here at least cosmetically. Titanium is known to support some absolutely stunning welds cosmetically. No, they don't have to look this good to perform, but they are an indication of the welders skill and experience.

Here are some top notch Ti welds from a cosmetic perspective. They are like jewelry or art to my eyes... :

Those welds look good enough to be done by a machine...... Were they indeed free hand welds by a tradesman?
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      03-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #88
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what is that part i will buy it!
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