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      03-05-2013, 09:11 AM   #1
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Heat cycling new Proxes R888?

I am just about to drop the hammer on a set of Proxes R888's (I was going to buy NT-01's!). These are softer than the NT-05's I was using. Will the 180 mile drive to NHMS put enough heat into the tires to prep them for the track, or should I consider getting them heat cycled?
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      03-05-2013, 09:23 AM   #2
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heat cycling always increases the life of r-comp tires and pays for itself in increase life..
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      03-05-2013, 10:01 AM   #3
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Is there a good way to heat cycle tires yourself.... on the streets before you go to the track? I'm in same situation as OP. I had a few sets of NT01's and had the last set heat cycled and honestly did not tell any difference between the heat cycled and non-heat cycled sets. But anything I can do to possibly increase life or grip i'm willing to try.
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      03-05-2013, 11:24 AM   #4
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I tried the R 888 for one day. I didn't heat cycle them as it was a last minute purchase. The fist session they had far less grip than the PSS. By the third session they had more. I hated the tread noise and movement......I could feel the tread moving the car side to side. I used the recommended tire pressures but don't think they liked the heavy car.......and I didn't like them switching to another option the next day.
It will be interesting to hear others opinions after experiencing the R888.
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      03-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I tried the R 888 for one day. I didn't heat cycle them as it was a last minute purchase. The fist session they had far less grip than the PSS. By the third session they had more. I hated the tread noise and movement......I could feel the tread moving the car side to side. I used the recommended tire pressures but don't think they liked the heavy car.......and I didn't like them switching to another option the next day.
It will be interesting to hear others opinions after experiencing the R888.
I tried R888's for 2 sets on my old E92 M3 with very poor results.Very short life 1st set I got about 6 hrs out of rears 2nd set I got 3 1/2 hours before they corded in a rather spectacular manner


I have had great results with Toyo RA1's so I was quite disappointed with the 888's
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      03-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I tried the R 888 for one day. I didn't heat cycle them as it was a last minute purchase. The fist session they had far less grip than the PSS. By the third session they had more. I hated the tread noise and movement......I could feel the tread moving the car side to side. I used the recommended tire pressures but don't think they liked the heavy car.......and I didn't like them switching to another option the next day.
It will be interesting to hear others opinions after experiencing the R888.
I just ran with mine for the first time yesterday. I experienced the same as what you described. I did feel like there's more grip than the AD08's but not much more. But I feel like I need to be running more negative camber. -2.4 in the fronts now and I feel like I'm just riding the edge of the tires around the corners. With my AD08's I was running anywhere from a high 1:43.8 to 1:45 pretty consistently and yesterday my best was a low 1:43.1, but running 1:43's very consistently. The weather at Laguna was in the 50's all day so not sure how much that affects the grip in these tires.
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      03-05-2013, 01:18 PM   #7
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I think bottom line maybe 10 -20% of people will get the R888 to work properly and actually like them. But this opinion is based on the response of Spec Miata guys. (I ran the R888 with stock ZCP susp. and -2.2 in the front) I would recommend either staying with stock or stockish spring rates running AD08, RS3 etc…. or move up to Conti scrubs, BFG R1, etc and run the appropriate spring rates for the tire. It is amazing how the whole system needs to work together. For example I ran the Conti scrubs with the above stock suspension -2.2 front……..I was faster once I got the tires greasy and car started to move around. Thus the tire was not over powering the suspension.
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      03-05-2013, 01:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I think bottom line maybe 10 -20% of people will get the R888 to work properly and actually like them. But this opinion is based on the response of Spec Miata guys. (I ran the R888 with stock ZCP susp. and -2.2 in the front) I would recommend either staying with stock or stockish spring rates running AD08, RS3 etc…. or move up to Conti scrubs, BFG R1, etc and run the appropriate spring rates for the tire. It is amazing how the whole system needs to work together. For example I ran the Conti scrubs with the above stock suspension -2.2 front……..I was faster once I got the tires greasy and car started to move around. Thus the tire was not over powering the suspension.
I've run the R888's on a Spec Miata as the above poster noted. The R888 is not a great tire unless it's perfectly dialed. It is slower than the RA1 unless you have the setup (temps, camber) perfect, and even then there are better R-compounds to try with easier setup parameters ie RA1, NT01, BFG R1, Hoosier R (aka Conti Extreme Contact Race scrubs).
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      03-05-2013, 01:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
I've run the R888's on a Spec Miata as the above poster noted. The R888 is not a great tire unless it's perfectly dialed. It is slower than the RA1 unless you have the setup (temps, camber) perfect, and even then there are better R-compounds to try with easier setup parameters ie RA1, NT01, BFG R1, Hoosier R (aka Conti Extreme Contact Race scrubs).
I am glad you chimed in. The younger/newer guys need to hear the experience from the veteran track/race guys more often.
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      03-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #10
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From what I have seen R888's tend to work a lot better on a lower powered lighter car.
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      03-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
From what I have seen R888's tend to work a lot better on a lower powered lighter car.
Agreed. It is also the feedback I am getting from my track buddies. However it seems most (not to say all) did not like their experience with the R888 and prefer the old RA1.

Just as an additional info, in my experience, the NT01 do not need heat cycling.
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      03-05-2013, 08:56 PM   #12
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You have limited heat cycles with R888's. I wouldn't drive them on the street because you will run out of grip before you run out of tread. Not to mention the howl sound you get from them. Also google "groove of doom".

I ran about 4-5 sets on my Mcoupe...Not looking back now that I'm running NT-01's.
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      03-10-2013, 08:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I am glad you chimed in. The younger/newer guys need to hear the experience from the veteran track/race guys more often.
Much appreciated. I was going to get R888's...in fact priced them out yesterday and was going to pull the trigger after my next track event as I can get one more day out of my PSS.

Now I'm going to rethink this. Maybe RS3's or maybe I just stick with PSS...which are predictable and that's good for a track newb like me.
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      03-10-2013, 07:49 PM   #14
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I have gone through 2 sets of RA1s in the front (and none in the rear) and changed the fronts to R888s. I would generally agree with the consensus here; RA1s are a little more bullet proof, but with the proper setup R888s can be better.

Personally, I bought the R888s shaved because I heard that I would heat cycle them out before I would use all the tread. On the other hand, the RA1s (I got them shaved) had amazing traction all the way until they chorded and I did occasionally run them on the street.

It doesn't sound like you want to go with R-comps so much any more, but if you do... get 'em heat cycled and shaved!!!
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      03-10-2013, 09:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Much appreciated. I was going to get R888's...in fact priced them out yesterday and was going to pull the trigger after my next track event as I can get one more day out of my PSS.

Now I'm going to rethink this. Maybe RS3's or maybe I just stick with PSS...which are predictable and that's good for a track newb like me.
If they make the sizes you need, give the Michelin PSC (not "+" or N-spec) a try. I had great success with them on my track prep'd e46 M3, and I'm about to buy a set of F 265/35-18 and R 285/30-18 for my e92 M3. Heat cycling helps a little with the PSCs but without heat cycling I've been able to run consistent lap times starting at full depth to slight cording.
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      03-13-2013, 07:05 PM   #16
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R888, RA1, NT01 all use the same rubber compound. Carcas is different.

NT01>RA1>R888 on the '95M3 I raced in BMW club racing. I raced it in IStock and then, after I blew the motor, moved to JP w/a 2.8 (iron block) up front. 3175lbs dry in Istock to 2990 wet w/driver in JP. NT01's were best. I always ran my fastest laps as the tires corded unless I'd grossly overheated them (turn very blue). NT01s need far less camber to be effective than the RA1s.
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      03-13-2013, 07:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
R888, RA1, NT01 all use the same rubber compound. Carcas is different.

NT01>RA1>R888 on the '95M3 I raced in BMW club racing. I raced it in IStock and then, after I blew the motor, moved to JP w/a 2.8 (iron block) up front. 3175lbs dry in Istock to 2990 wet w/driver in JP. NT01's were best. I always ran my fastest laps as the tires corded unless I'd grossly overheated them (turn very blue). NT01s need far less camber to be effective than the RA1s.
Haven't seen anyone claim the R888 is the same as NT01 or RA1. I've always understood the R888 to be its own...and therefore deemed unacceptable or just different than the other two.
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      03-13-2013, 10:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
Haven't seen anyone claim the R888 is the same as NT01 or RA1. I've always understood the R888 to be its own...and therefore deemed unacceptable or just different than the other two.
Same here. Nothing formal though, mostly "paddock talk". What I have heard is that the NT01 and RA1 use the same rubber compound and that it is different from the R888. This could explain why the R888 is so much more sensitive to heat cycling and overheating than the other two.
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      03-13-2013, 10:43 PM   #19
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Construction has as much to do with wear as compound when you are putting big loads on the tire. Would not surprise me if the compounds were the same among the toyo/nitto track day tires, that was always the rumor but I have not seen corroboration
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      03-14-2013, 02:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Construction has as much to do with wear as compound when you are putting big loads on the tire. Would not surprise me if the compounds were the same among the toyo/nitto track day tires, that was always the rumor but I have not seen corroboration
Richbot is correct.

My source was a Toyo senior technical manager. The same one who used to ship me free tires (street and track) all the time for evaluation. I never did a chemical analysis, but I have no reason to doubt him.

Regardless, the 888's are crap for DE's (or pretty much anything else).
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      03-14-2013, 04:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
Richbot is correct.

My source was a Toyo senior technical manager. The same one who used to ship me free tires (street and track) all the time for evaluation. I never did a chemical analysis, but I have no reason to doubt him.

Regardless, the 888's are crap for DE's (or pretty much anything else).
Your source seems more reliable than mine . But based on how differently they behave, I am still sceptical the R888 and RA1 have the same compound.

As an aside, I still wonder why Toyo discontinued the RA1 to replace it with the R888 (only to bring back the RA1 after the market pleaded for it)...

Last edited by CanAutM3; 03-16-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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      03-14-2013, 04:14 PM   #22
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Construction has as much to do with wear as compound when you are putting big loads on the tire.
On wear, fore sure. But resistance to heat cycling ?
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