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      03-10-2013, 10:17 AM   #45
monza2t
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Im kinda mixed. This is obviously going to be a Chinese market model using an obsolete platform that we will never see in the western world. They can have it. (for the record I love my Deutsch gemacht E90, so im not dogging E90 cars). On the plus side this brings cash into BMW, some of which will go to R&D, which Im all for.

The downside is the obvious association of BMW with corrupt chinese businesses ...
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      03-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #46
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Hilarious read, hilarious...

The people claiming "this will be my last BMW because of this" are just cracking me up, bye!
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      03-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #47
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Bentleys and Rolls Royces are German. Land Rover and Jaguar are Indian. Chryslers are Italian. Volvos are Chinese. That's just the way it's going to be. A good car is a good car and a bad car is a bad car, it can be made anywhere
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      03-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #48
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We already have the chinese side windows... Fuyao its the brand in the f30 series..
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      03-10-2013, 12:18 PM   #49
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Very soon even BMWs will come with "made in China" sticker.
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      03-10-2013, 12:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazuniga
We already have the chinese side windows... Fuyao its the brand in the f30 series..
Wow
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      03-10-2013, 12:37 PM   #51
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I'm sure there's already a considerable number of Chinese sourced components on every BMW, maybe not first or second tier, and maybe disguised by the fact they are European OEM's, but they may well still either source, or manufacture, from/in China.

Also the point someone above made about the X's and Z's being made in the USA... not wishing to offend, but most people in Europe really don't consider Americans to be that great at designing and building quality product either - Made in the USA is hardly a stamp of quality, but that doesn't mean to say the vehicles that roll out of Spartanburg are any worse than those from the European plants.

So many aspects of the manufacturing of cars these days have been completely de-skilled anyway, so long as the design and processes are set by people who know what they're doing, there's not a problem - doesn't matter the nationality of the people pressing the buttons.

Chinese auto manufacturing has come a long way in recent years, with the input the rest of the world's car makers HAVE to have in order to sell their cars in the BIGGEST market in the world (sorry for the butt-hurt america, but you're not the priority anymore), the Chinese are only going to get better.

Also, if China really wanted to copy BMW's they can anyway, just doing it this way BMW gets to make some profits out of it.




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      03-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
Hilarious read, hilarious...

The people claiming "this will be my last BMW because of this" are just cracking me up, bye!
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      03-10-2013, 02:54 PM   #53
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This is a really smart move from BMW: Audi did it before and now it's the leader in China.
BMW will have a better position with this new project and will also have some benefits from its older platforms.
Also Rolls Royce has big sales on this market so this is another reason to a better image
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      03-10-2013, 03:34 PM   #54
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Counterpoint - I buy German car because its a German car w mostly German parts designed to survive a high speed crash and have sport not a German car composed of German designed Chinese parts that is a profit exercise/strategy for emerging markets or markets that will come dominant

Ok currency markets flux and automaker builds factory in Mexico or USA or in a place to better distribute and save cost got that

China has it rules

BMW closes down all of its auto parts distro in the USA

German steel is 3 times the tensile strength of Japanese steel.... Japan does not have indigenous ore

China blends industrious waste into common used products because its rivers and streams are toxic and by the time you are 30 you have stage 4 so there is lead and arsenic and pthalates in your armrest on the door that your young child gnaws on

If BMW introduces Chinese made autos into the global market then you better keep the euro born and raised vehicle

If this is the case Japanese cars then us cars will become.more desirable
It's not the case now and will benefit the shareholder but BMW is losing its ways
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      03-10-2013, 04:17 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
I'm sure there's already a considerable number of Chinese sourced components on every BMW, maybe not first or second tier, and maybe disguised by the fact they are European OEM's, but they may well still either source, or manufacture, from/in China.

Also the point someone above made about the X's and Z's being made in the USA... not wishing to offend, but most people in Europe really don't consider Americans to be that great at designing and building quality product either - Made in the USA is hardly a stamp of quality, but that doesn't mean to say the vehicles that roll out of Spartanburg are any worse than those from the European plants.
Lol, go look up where designworks is located. Guess the 3 series and RR phantom were designed poorly.

worst part of this "deal" is that most likely we will be getting chinese parts in our BMW's and still be paying the premium price. At that point you will be paying just for the badge and not any quality advantages versus other brands.
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      03-10-2013, 04:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4 View Post
Lol, go look up where designworks is located. Guess the 3 series and RR phantom were designed poorly.
Designworks is a design studio -- skin deep. I meant design of components, how things work, y'know, engineering design. I've got nothing against the way lots of American cars look, in-fact there's many American cars I wish they sold in Europe.. but still, American build quality isn't that well respected on this side of the Atlantic (rightly or wrongly), at least that's the perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurman Murch
Counterpoint - I buy German car because its a German car w mostly German parts designed to survive a high speed crash and have sport not a German car composed of German designed Chinese parts that is a profit exercise/strategy for emerging markets or markets that will come dominant

Ok currency markets flux and automaker builds factory in Mexico or USA or in a place to better distribute and save cost got that

China has it rules

BMW closes down all of its auto parts distro in the USA

German steel is 3 times the tensile strength of Japanese steel.... Japan does not have indigenous ore

China blends industrious waste into common used products because its rivers and streams are toxic and by the time you are 30 you have stage 4 so there is lead and arsenic and pthalates in your armrest on the door that your young child gnaws on

If BMW introduces Chinese made autos into the global market then you better keep the euro born and raised vehicle

If this is the case Japanese cars then us cars will become.more desirable
It's not the case now and will benefit the shareholder but BMW is losing its ways
I'm sure there's some science and evidence behind what you're saying, but it strikes me it might be based on some scare-mongering propoganda. By the time you've got to work in the morning, you've already touched and handled a number of products made with phthalates, possibly even ingested some... and this will have been the case for decades & decades. Only now are they trying to reduce the commonality of them. Which by the way will be a legal requirement of anything you buy.

I can only assume that whatever toxic materials you think China is spewing out aren't actually that dangerous. For instance, If I check a few things within arms reach of where I'm sat now, pretty much everything (phone, keyboard, mouse, card reader, chargers, Speakers etc. etc. etc.) is made in China.. (my Samsung monitor is made in Romania - wonder if it contains Horsemeat?) Why should we panic all of a sudden now because some cars are assembled in China?

Car manufacturers have lots of specs and tests components must meet, I mean some really, really, tedious and obscure ones. There's probably a ream of paperwork that covers every single little component on the entire car... provided it's engineered well, and quality standards are maintained throughout production (which I'm sure are closely audited by ze germans) there's no reason to think that the car would be of sub-standard quality, or it that it would poison your children.

On the other hand, if they do a half-arsed job of designing it in the first place, or just dump a load of tooling in a chinese factory and let them do whatever they want, it might well end up as a crap product.
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      03-10-2013, 05:49 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
Designworks is a design studio -- skin deep. I meant design of components, how things work, y'know, engineering design. I've got nothing against the way lots of American cars look, in-fact there's many American cars I wish they sold in Europe.. but still, American build quality isn't that well respected on this side of the Atlantic (rightly or wrongly), at least that's the perception.
Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on vehicle design. American build quality is crap. I wanted a Shelby GT500 before I got my car but after sitting in one I realized I couldn't justify paying so much money just to have speed.
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      03-10-2013, 06:22 PM   #58
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The idea is to create a China-only brand aimed at developing car markets.
I do not know if Bimmerpost checked out the Qourus cars @ Geneva?
But in them you truly have the progression of a quality made product from a Chinese manufacture even though they are based across town from us in Munich and feature ex BMW designers and executives in their management.

The Quros cars were actually quite surprising. Quality was good and design was completely individual many thought and myself too due to the proposals at Geneva that this could be that breakthrough brand that finally unites western buyers with Chinese made cars.

The plan is to use existing platforms in this case the X1 to build a new brand aimed at Chinese customers , they will not be re-badged BMWs and they will be distanced from the BMW brand like MINI and Rolls-Royce are. And will be entirely for China only.

BMW not only build cars in China but they also have specific variants such as the best selling 3er and 5 er Li - think of the 3er GT as the western equivalent of the 3er Li.
BMW also plan a first for the market with an extended BMW X1 as well as an extended 1er GT.
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      03-10-2013, 06:42 PM   #59
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BMW has money. Lots. Greed is not good.

BMW name means something. If they start with this kind of joint venture the name will dilute and from a class company will become a vulgar brand.
They should stick with their identity and improve what they have because we still have issues.

The name still means something, if they will do that bye bye BMW. Not because I want exclusivity, because BMW is not Koenigsegg but I identify myself with some values that BMW embrace. And I would definitely not embrace a company that builds a similar car in China.

BMW should stay separate from the rest and keep what they build in a such a long time: a reputation.

Money might give them a boost but it will hurt them big time in a long run.
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      03-10-2013, 07:10 PM   #60
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Next thing you know, the Chinese knock off will be competing with BMW on international markets.

Better not pump up your opponents. Short sighted beancounter strategy.
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      03-10-2013, 07:35 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Next thing you know, the Chinese knock off will be competing with BMW on international markets.

Better not pump up your opponents. Short sighted beancounter strategy.
If it's a cheap knock-off of poor quality it won't really be a competitor, and if it's a good quality comparable knock off, it's just another competitor... that sounds like a bad thing... but you can bet that if a Chinese brand was serious about competing globally they'd already have 1,3,5,6,7,X1,X3,X5,X6,Z4 (along with the Audi and Mercedes equivalents) back at their factory ripping them apart for ideas.. hell that happens now in the western world!

Like I said before, at least this way, BMW gets a slice of the pie.



So, X1Li and 1GTLi are on the cards then?
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      03-10-2013, 09:03 PM   #62
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It doesn't take the same effort to do copycat from the final product that it is to do the copycat when the original design is handed to you, with the machines to build it.

It is short sighted for BMW to do technology transfer of that magnitude to Chinese companies that are notorious for ripping you apart the next day. Chinese goods are bad quality still, but they have already tremendously improved. It won't be long before they can make a car just as good as the Koreans (BTW, the Korean car industry exists only because Opel did the same deal with them, for 10 years they sold badly assembled older design Kaddet, see what they sell today, meanwhile Opel was almost bankrupted).
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      03-11-2013, 01:39 AM   #63
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It wouldnt be a bad idea unless it was sold world wide. Chinese products only suck because of cutting corners, cost reduction, and really really bad quality check... Other than that if those three are done very very well then the quality would be the same no matter where it is made.
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      03-11-2013, 07:36 AM   #64
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A E90 chassis with a Geo emblem.
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      03-11-2013, 09:45 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATS
It's really sad to see what BMW has become just in the name of profit.

You can make a profit by staying true to your values or you can make a profit by selling out. It's clear which one BMW has chosen.

Don't be surprised that the next step would be to have chinese manufactured components (by "The Promise") make their way throughout the BMW family.
Yes Sir, sad to see... Hence why I now drive an ATS.
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      03-11-2013, 05:19 PM   #66
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Yes Sir, sad to see... Hence why I now drive an ATS.
Riiight, so now you've bought a Caddy... a GM product... hmm yes I see, because GM aren't known for whoring out platforms from and to the entire world under god knows how many brand-names, platform sharing, parts sharing... including... tie-ups with China. Wonder how long it will be before the Alpha platform is used to underpin a saloon for SAIC...
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