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      03-05-2013, 10:19 AM   #1
SpiralOut
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Brake Duct/Cooling Advice Wanted

Just want to get some advice on brake ducting/cooling. I've been tracking for 5 years, running advanced groups for last 2, mostly VIR full course, few days at Road Atlanta, This year I will be running my new mostly stock ZCP M3 with carbotech XP20/XP10 front/rear pads. In the past, I've had 2 335's that I've tracked and I've had huge problems with front brake heat warping/destroying rotors and front pads. VIR full is pretty tough on brakes.

So the question is should I expect the same heat problems from the M3 or is it better at handling this? If I'm in for the same issues, I will go ahead and start looking into some kindof brake ducting package now before the track season gets started. If the M's design is better at handling this then I will get it a try as is and see how it does. I like the cantrell brake duct package but it's so expensive…. Don't want to go that route unless it's definitely needed.
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      03-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #2
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brake ducting

I have a 2011 M3 ZCP and run in the advanced group using PF 01 pads. I initially had brake fading problems late in the sessions. Resolved with stainless steel brake lines and Castrol SRF fluid. Ran VIR full for four days straight in 105 degree weather last summer with no fading, no issues. Hope that helps.
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      03-05-2013, 01:25 PM   #3
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Brake cooling/ducting can only help. Is it an issue with the e92 M3? Yes if you push the car and/or run a sticky tire. I would say at the least it will keep pad and rotor temps lower and thus prolong their life/saving you $$$. Eventually a BBK would be smart if you intend on tracking quite a bit.
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      03-05-2013, 06:37 PM   #4
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Save yourself all the hassle and get a BBK in the front. Even with ducting you will just end up burning through track pads at a phenomenal (expensive) rate.
I tried everything with the stock set up before finally biting the bullet and getting 380 Stop Tech BBK in the front. Learn from my experience...

The Cantrell ducts work, but I'm not sure if you need them if you have a BBK. I fitted mine before installing the BBK.
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      03-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shosholoza
Save yourself all the hassle and get a BBK in the front. Even with ducting you will just end up burning through track pads at a phenomenal (expensive) rate.
I tried everything with the stock set up before finally biting the bullet and getting 380 Stop Tech BBK in the front. Learn from my experience...

The Cantrell ducts work, but I'm not sure if you need them if you have a BBK. I fitted mine before installing the BBK.
+1. Just go BBK... It's the one weakness of the M on the track.
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      03-05-2013, 08:42 PM   #6
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VIR Full is not a hard track on brakes, especially true on street tires.

I've been successful not completely melting pads with R-comp tires but using stainless steel lines, ATE fluid, titanium backing plates, and some ducting just into the wheel wells.

I've never been a fan of big stagger in pad compounds unless you have aero to balance. Can you not run the same compound all around and let the car's engineering do the bias?
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      03-05-2013, 09:32 PM   #7
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The best ducting solutions I've found have been via a GT4-style lip with ducting to pass air under the front end of the car. Bimmerworld has race-ready components that are all business, and the splitter still looks pretty nice aesthetically. For pads, maybe DTC-70s are worth a try before spending a ton on a BBK?
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      03-05-2013, 11:27 PM   #8
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I've used Pagid RS19 with ATE fluid and DYI cooling ducts into the wheel well at VIR full. Im on stock suspension and 265/285 RS3's, running at the edge between intermediate and advanced groups. Works fine, mostly - but I still managed the brakes a bit.

Let me explain. I experimented a few sessions and ran progressively harder on the back straight, braking later and later until I went past the last brake marker, quite at my fear limit and when the car on stock suspension was getting squirrelly. I could do perhaps 2 such maximum attack laps, after which the brakes got a little soft, and I backed off a little.

To me personally, it is worth more to keep the brakes stock with very good pads, cheap cooling ducts and a little bit of brake management. I also went with 18" track rims. Mentally, I cannot justify any modification costing 10% of the price of the car or more.

But if you want the absolute best lap times, and want to scare Boss Mustangs away on braking, you will probably need a BBK.

YMMV.
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      03-06-2013, 12:00 AM   #9
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I have a brand new Cantrell set that I never used for sale if you are looking to go that route - http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13589954
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      03-06-2013, 12:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
+1. Just go BBK... It's the one weakness of the M on the track.
+2. High-temp race pads, high-temp fluid, etc. are only band-aid solutions. Fix the root cause (insufficient rotor cooling due to limited number of vanes)... especially since you are an advanced driver.

Safety always comes first
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      03-06-2013, 12:10 AM   #11
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Its also a confidence issue...
With the BBK I feel good, with the stock setup I was always "managing" the brakes, finishing sessions early, etc
With the BBK I no longer have to worry about the brakes.
I do live in Florida, so the ambient temps are higher
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      03-06-2013, 01:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
+2. High-temp race pads, high-temp fluid, etc. are only band-aid solutions. Fix the root cause (insufficient rotor cooling due to limited number of vanes)... especially since you are an advanced driver.

Safety always comes first
+3
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      03-06-2013, 07:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shosholoza View Post
Its also a confidence issue...
With the BBK I feel good, with the stock setup I was always "managing" the brakes, finishing sessions early, etc
With the BBK I no longer have to worry about the brakes.
I do live in Florida, so the ambient temps are higher
Will you be at be Chin event on March 23rd? I'd like to go for a ride if you don't mind.
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      03-06-2013, 10:44 AM   #14
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There is plenty of good advice here. Bottom line at least a front BBK will be safer and quite possibly pay for itself if you track enough.
An above poster mentioned his experience in an intermediate/advanced group. That description is correct if you are in a group where you wait on slower cars/allow the brakes to cool. Once you are able to push the car lap after lap (lack of slower cars) the oem brakes will become an issue. Cool ducts might help but will not solve the problem.
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      03-06-2013, 01:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
Will you be at be Chin event on March 23rd? I'd like to go for a ride if you don't mind.
Unfortunately not - I have registered, but will probably have to cancel due to an out of country business trip.

I will be at Homestead this weekend...
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      03-06-2013, 02:27 PM   #16
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April 13th???
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      03-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #17
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+1
BBK FTW. At higher skill level, you are able to take the car to limits that most white/green level group drivers won't. I've learned to be prepared, so you don't find yourself taking long way around and eventually going BBK after spending money on multiple pads, rotors etc as you become faster. Also if you will be tracking a lot, it is definitely worth. I have had to back off later in a session just because of fade (awful when u know u can push harder but not necessarily safe). My car as now gotten to the paoint where I've pulled the trigger on AP racing breaks especially since I have upgraded my tire/suspension setup.
Btw, Richard the k-dubs are amazing. Dropped almost 5 seconds on my lap time at spring mountain after I installed them along with my RS-3/18" TE37 setup. M-World is the real deal. Thanks again.

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      03-07-2013, 07:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple M View Post
+1
BBK FTW. At higher skill level, you are able to take the car to limits that most white/green level group drivers won't. I've learned to be prepared, so you don't find yourself taking long way around and eventually going BBK after spending money on multiple pads, rotors etc as you become faster. Also if you will be tracking a lot, it is definitely worth. I have had to back off later in a session just because of fade (awful when u know u can push harder but not necessarily safe). My car as now gotten to the paoint where I've pulled the trigger on AP racing breaks especially since I have upgraded my tire/suspension setup.
Btw, Richard the k-dubs are amazing. Dropped almost 5 seconds on my lap time at spring mountain after I installed them along with my RS-3/18" TE37 setup. M-World is the real deal. Thanks again.

Which BBK did you go with for the 18" wheels?
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      03-08-2013, 11:53 AM   #19
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