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      03-04-2013, 11:45 AM   #23
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Geez, I have run through 2 sets of these NT01's in the past and was just about ready to order another set this week. Now this thread has me a little worried..... guess i should look around and perhaps try another tire.
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      03-04-2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
ive just driven mine except for the first one which was worse. the tear isnt thru the tread block completely so as tires have worn the splice is gone. didnt seperate more.
This is what mine looks like... any thoughts?
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      03-04-2013, 11:51 AM   #25
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that doesn't look safe.
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      03-04-2013, 12:17 PM   #26
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I'm not using Nittos, but several friends are, so I'm interested to figure out: Is this a batch issue, or is this caused by something else.

For example, http://www.ehow.com/list_7508798_pro...tto-tires.html states:

Quote:
In February 2010, Nitto Tires issued a consumer advisory regarding proper cold-weather handling of all NT555R, NT555RII and NT01 tires. If these tires are exposed to temperatures under 15 degrees Fahrenehit, they will lose rubber compound flexibility. This can lead to cracking, which can result in a potentially dangerous accident. To minimize damage, Nitto Tires advises that consumers not drive cars with these tires in conditions below 15 degrees Fahrenheit and check tires for signs of cracking. Before mounting or dismounting, Nitto advises to store these tires for a minimum of 24 hours in a temperature-controlled environment of 68 degrees Fahrenheit and to remove these tires from the vehicle and deflate to half the normal air pressure during prolonged periods of non-use or storage.
I know not everyone has heated garages, and maybe not all distributors have heated warehouses, so I thought I'd note this here to see if that might be a cause of what people are encountering.
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      03-04-2013, 12:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by llis View Post
I'm not using Nittos, but several friends are, so I'm interested to figure out: Is this a batch issue, or is this caused by something else.

For example, http://www.ehow.com/list_7508798_pro...tto-tires.html states:



I know not everyone has heated garages, and maybe not all distributors have heated warehouses, so I thought I'd note this here to see if that might be a cause of what people are encountering.
Mine have been in my 70 degree garage for 100% of their life aside from being at the track (where it was about 40-50 degrees depending on the time of day) and whatever Discount Tire and Nitto did with them before I had them.
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      03-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
wow okay anyone else confirm this also?
Mine first appeared on left front and right rear. Now it is apparent on all four. As the treads are wearing, they are now less noticable. I think it depends on what level the treads are worn to. I spoke to several people that I track with and they also had the same issue with the NT01's. One person had a large chunk delaminate and had to replace tire. I only have about 4-8 sessions remaining on mine. Not sure what I will replace them with.
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      03-04-2013, 01:32 PM   #29
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I doubt it has anything to do with the glass transition temperature of the rubber (i.e. exposure to cold temperatures). This is a tread splice failure issue, and the Tglass exposure issue would show up in many places on the rubber (i.e. see the pictures Toyo shows of an R888 exposed to cold temperatures in their warning document).

In my case, my tires were built in week 32 last year if I recall correctly (late July sometime), and I purchased them in late October.
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      03-04-2013, 02:30 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
I posted some pictures of my experience last Fall with new NT-01s in the other thread here. This was my fourth set of NT-01s since 2007, all of them used on my E39 M5 (275/35-18 all around on 9.5" wheels). I ran the other three sets all the way to nothing (cords), and never experienced any tread splice failures or even the slightest sign of an issue.

The NT-01s I bought in early November 2012 *all* started opening up their tread splices. Two of them were clearly worse (large gaps, especially in the large outer tread block) than the others due to rotation direction, but the tires on the other side of the car showed the splice starting to open up also.

This occurred after about 15minutes of all-out high speed autocross use at a CCA event at the BMW PC. Interestingly, I bought this fresh set for that event just like the prior set a few years back. In other words, the life/duty cycle of these tires was essentially the same as the last new set of NT-01s I bought.

Regarding rotation direction and tread splices -- yeah, that's long ago old news, but what's not old news is that this is a new issue with the NT-01. Of course the real issue is that you don't have a rotation direction option with the NT-01 due to the outer tread block design, so simply saying to rotation-bias the installation is useless for this tire.

As an aside, if you want a "street tire" that I think might be faster than the NT-01 but is *definitely* a much better tire to drive behind (seriously, this thing is amazing in its feedback, turn-in and stick), look at the BFG Rival. I just ran my first autox yesterday with the M3 setup for F-stock Tire class, and I am about speechless (been autocrossing for 37 something years, track stuff 30+, so I don't say this lightly). The Rival is going to make some serious waves this year in "street tire" required classes. BFG/Michelin have knocked it out of the park with this tire. I can't wait for the next event as I kept getting more and more out of them yesterday, so I'm anxious to get more seat time with them.
Where did they get the FG rivals from? I can't wait until June!
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      03-04-2013, 03:02 PM   #31
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I couldn't either, so I bought a set of 245/40-18s and ran those all around yesterday. I'm waiting on the 275/35s but that won't be until June. As it is, I'm astonished at the grip and performance of the 245/40s yesterday. Also note the Rival is almost section width wide out to the tread face; hence something like a 245 Rival has a tread width similar to a typical 255. So check clearances carefully... I hope to get the 275s prior to the first part of June, but as it looks that is just hope for now.
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      03-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #32
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Good stuff here. Thanks.
I think Ben posted something about the Rval a couple weeks back.
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      03-04-2013, 04:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
wow okay anyone else confirm this also?
My first one was on front drivers side, second was rear passengers side, third I don't know.
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      03-04-2013, 06:50 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llis View Post
I'm not using Nittos, but several friends are, so I'm interested to figure out: Is this a batch issue, or is this caused by something else.

For example, http://www.ehow.com/list_7508798_pro...tto-tires.html states:



I know not everyone has heated garages, and maybe not all distributors have heated warehouses, so I thought I'd note this here to see if that might be a cause of what people are encountering.
Interesting info. I've done the opposite--during the off-season I store my track tires in the garage, inflated up to 40psi or so to maintain pressure. Looks like I should reevaluate this.
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      03-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #35
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Quick update. I just got off the phone with nitto and the replacement seems like a hassle. I have to bring it to a nearby authorized dealer (that may or may not want to help me since I didn't buy the tires from them). I'll have to buy a new tire and pay for mounting and shaving so it matches my other 3 tires. Meanwhile the tire will be sent back to nitto for a measurement to determine proration of my refund. I'm guessing that a prorated used race tire will not be worth much.
I'll likely just keep running them and monitor the tread. Right now I'm not overly concerned about their safety.
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      03-04-2013, 07:15 PM   #36
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Quick update. I just got off the phone with nitto and the replacement seems like a hassle. I have to bring it to a nearby authorized dealer (that may or may not want to help me since I didn't buy the tires from them). I'll have to buy a new tire and pay for mounting and shaving so it matches my other 3 tires. Meanwhile the tire will be sent back to nitto for a measurement to determine proration of my refund. I'm guessing that a prorated used race tire will not be worth much.
I'll likely just keep running them and monitor the tread. Right now I'm not overly concerned about their safety.
Where did you buy yours? I got mine at Discount Tire, I'm going over there tomorrow to see what they do for me.
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      03-04-2013, 07:32 PM   #37
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I got them from discount tire direct and had them shipped to my local tire shop who apparently is not an authorized nitto dealer even though they can get them.
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      03-04-2013, 08:14 PM   #38
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From what I can gather, if you got'em thru a tire shop or chain whose policy is to refund you right away (like Discount Tire), then they'll do that and deal with Nitto to get reimbursed. But, if you bought'em from a smaller/local shop like I did, wherein they don't have a policy to refund you right away, then you have to deal with Nitto directly and go thru that long process and the most you can expect is the prorated refund based on the amount of remaining tread.

After the discovery of the first splice, I had another track day the following weekend, so I bought a new one and put the spliced one thru the warranty process. Then, over next 2 track days, 2 more tires developed splice. It's been a long process with the first one, and I still don't see the end of it, so I'm debating whether to put the other 2 thru this process, or just put them back on and track them on slower speed tracks.
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      03-04-2013, 10:27 PM   #39
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i ran mine looking worse than that picture with no issues to date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281 View Post
Mine first appeared on left front and right rear. Now it is apparent on all four. As the treads are wearing, they are now less noticable. I think it depends on what level the treads are worn to. I spoke to several people that I track with and they also had the same issue with the NT01's. One person had a large chunk delaminate and had to replace tire. I only have about 4-8 sessions remaining on mine. Not sure what I will replace them with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
My first one was on front drivers side, second was rear passengers side, third I don't know.
looks like no consitency of where it happens on the car. sidewall indicates week of the year produced as well. wonder if its all one run or from various ones.
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      03-04-2013, 10:30 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
i ran mine looking worse than that picture with no issues to date.






looks like no consitency of where it happens on the car. sidewall indicates week of the year produced as well. wonder if its all one run or from various ones.
My other 3 are looking good right now and I only have 1 day on the tires, so I'll get DT to replace the one, and let the others ride. Hopefully by the time I get a new set this issue has been resolved.
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      03-04-2013, 11:03 PM   #41
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This is happening to my new NT01s (one track day) as well. I have had more than 10 sets and have never had this issue. Sounds like they have changed their design.

I guess I have to switch to another brand. Too bad I like the tire and have used it for years
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      03-05-2013, 06:13 AM   #42
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Those who continue to use tires with tread splices that are compromised while simply saying "nothing has happened yet" is not a valid solution for most HPDE programs or track events. You are choosing to put yourself and all those around you on track at increased risk, a risk that is known but with a widely variable range of occurrence. It's similar to loading a member of a structure beyond its yield point (resulting in unseen minor plastic deformation), hearing engineers warning you not to do so, observing that the structure is "still standing and working 'fine'", and therefore continue loading that structure in the same manner.

At least in this case of the tread splice gaping open, if the worst case risks are realized, the failure analysis will be simple. Note that you will most likely be liable for the outcome, legally, especially since you chose to continue to use the tire in the degrading condition. Simply getting on track with most programs will require hiding the tire's condition from tech inspectors. I can't fathom getting into a student's car with said student knowing of an impending tread splice failure but who has decided not to worry about it since "nothing has happened yet."
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      03-05-2013, 06:43 AM   #43
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Some Pics

This splicing issue happened to one out of four tires purchased at the same time. It isn't deep but concerning nonetheless.

Freezing temps aren't an issue for my location. The idea that only one tire had this issue makes me think Nitto may have a manufacturing issue/quality control issue.

I have used these tires for several years now and splicing has never been an issue. Third set for the M3 and this is the first time I've had this issue.

NT01s have been bullet-proof up to this point, but I guess all good things come to an end eventually.
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      03-05-2013, 09:07 AM   #44
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Good work, PD.

Now...are there any issues with Toyo Proxes R888's before I drop the hammer on a set????
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