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      03-31-2013, 12:08 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
While it is right turn for most, you typically have the passenger door facing to the rear at some point making escape relatively easy.
What can I say...I like loose rear ends.

But back on topic as this thread is turning ridiculous. I will make every effort to straighten all of you clowns up and keep this forum respectable. Vote to ban w00tw00t

I will follow up with Nitto next week.
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      04-01-2013, 08:13 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
most folks seem to see the small line and then watch it become a bigger line. since there is a clear flaw in their manufacturing process due to some change they made (heat, pressure, raw materials, etc), then we really don't know what "might" happen. nitto has not owned up to the manufacturing flaw. if i was the plant manager at nitto where these were made, i would have a team of people all over this until they found the root cause and provided a corrective action. i am just throwing out hypotheticals. think about the recent 911 video posted here that suddenly lost pressure in the right rear and slammed into the wall. while any of these things can happen (an no you cannot predict that), why push a bad hand and gamble on what you know is already a problem with the tires. so far, you have been able to feel the problem and pit. that is good. you don't know if you always get such a warning. depending on what mechanism changed within their manufacturing process, everything is a possibility for now.
Exactly. Clearly something in the manufacturing process changed. The easiest thing for it to be is a contamination issue in the layer build, but it obviously could range from that to material manufacturing issues, etc.

Just because people's experience to date doesn't include a delamination of the tread from the carcass of course doesn't mean it *can't* happen as some here seem to imply (which you have pointed out). It is amazing how people use "experience" to then broadly claim knowledge of a tread splice failure when all the underlying variables are unknown. For example, perhaps Nitto is well aware of the issue (they have to be by now as I had detailed conversations with them last fall) even before signs started showing up in the field, and they put in place a screening of built tires with the intent to only allow the best of the worst to be sold -- who knows?

Given many here who have long experience using the NT-01 (6+ years in my case) and then all of the sudden this tread splice failure issue comes to the surface with tires built last Fall, it's obviously a process/material issue. Other tire companies would be handling this a totally different way -- Nitto seems clueless in many respects.

The net of it is that if I can open up large gaps at the splice in less than 15min of track time in 55F weather, I would never run such a tire at Daytona in 95F weather, wide open around the banking dreaming that all is fine and of course I'll feel the failure before I'm into the wall and gone... Everybody has there own tolerance for risk though.
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      04-01-2013, 10:42 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Exactly. Clearly something in the manufacturing process changed. The easiest thing for it to be is a contamination issue in the layer build, but it obviously could range from that to material manufacturing issues, etc.

Just because people's experience to date doesn't include a delamination of the tread from the carcass of course doesn't mean it *can't* happen as some here seem to imply (which you have pointed out). It is amazing how people use "experience" to then broadly claim knowledge of a tread splice failure when all the underlying variables are unknown. For example, perhaps Nitto is well aware of the issue (they have to be by now as I had detailed conversations with them last fall) even before signs started showing up in the field, and they put in place a screening of built tires with the intent to only allow the best of the worst to be sold -- who knows?

Given many here who have long experience using the NT-01 (6+ years in my case) and then all of the sudden this tread splice failure issue comes to the surface with tires built last Fall, it's obviously a process/material issue. Other tire companies would be handling this a totally different way -- Nitto seems clueless in many respects.

The net of it is that if I can open up large gaps at the splice in less than 15min of track time in 55F weather, I would never run such a tire at Daytona in 95F weather, wide open around the banking dreaming that all is fine and of course I'll feel the failure before I'm into the wall and gone... Everybody has there own tolerance for risk though.
I would think that by putting your car on the track would imply that you are very tolerant for risk. So think it is important to be aware of this issue. Hopefully we can be a part of the solution whether its buying something else or communicating with Nitto.

A splice is apparently something that can happen to any tire? So what's not to say that any tire can't suddenly delaminate? I've seen Yokohamas, Hankooks, and Michelins all have on track failures. Our cars have inherent weaknesses and who knows what may break or fail. I'm sure you've seen bolts and rods snap, nuts break off, and things bend that seem really weird.

Not saying that I would want it to happen but I've seen someone's tire come off at about 90mph at the track. Then I heard of someone's front wheel breaking apart from the hub on the front straight at 100mph+ of a 2.9 mile super speedway. How many of us bolt on aftermarket parts? Do we know the quality of them? How well they were designed? We assume.

I value safety especially in an environment where anything can happen. My point, although I did come across a little harsh you......me, but I see many 100% focused on the track where you need to divert some focus to off track. That greatly increases your options in an emergency situation...which was the point. And sounds much better being said in this manner.
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      04-01-2013, 11:34 AM   #224
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I called 714-252-0007 and asked for the tech dept. Got Steve who's been pretty helpful. He has for the car and mods along with some pics.

He said that Nitto will try to do a 100% warranty of the splicing issue. I believe you need to call Nitto and then they will contact your vendor and work out the exchange.

Steve wasn't specific on what they parameters were to receive a warranty replacement.

That's all I have.
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      04-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #225
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When (if?) the new Yoko AD-08R comes to the US, perhaps that will be a tire that can replace the NT-01 for a street drivable/excellent track tire. If anyone gets a heads up on its availability here, post back.
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      04-02-2013, 12:13 PM   #226
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havent heard of that one. is it a variation of the ad08 that has lot lower tread wear and comes at lower depth as well. or more street tire still. i use the ad08s on the street.
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      04-02-2013, 12:25 PM   #227
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See if this link works (translated):

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.yokohamatire.jp/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dyokohama%2Btire%2Bjapan%26hl%3Den%26c lient%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DScl%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial&sa=X&ei=LBNbUYXSO5GK9gTh24GgDw&ved=0CF EQ7gEwAA

Click on the link: "Launched ADVAN NEOVA AD08R!"
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      04-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #228
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looks to be more of a street tire than the nt01 so probably not direct competitor.
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      04-02-2013, 12:36 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
looks to be more of a street tire than the nt01 so probably not direct competitor.
It's a full R-compound version of the AD-08. My bet would be faster than the NT-01 on track.
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      04-02-2013, 12:53 PM   #230
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sweet will look out for these then!
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      04-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #231
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      04-02-2013, 02:27 PM   #232
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What's the treadwear rating going to be?
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      04-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #233
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Quote:
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What's the treadwear rating going to be?
If they are aiming to mimic the old A008R that I used to autocross, they are 50. They were some sticky tires.
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      04-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #234
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thats cool may be a nt01 beater after all. with all the thread splice issues im looking for an alternate.
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      04-02-2013, 05:33 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
If they are aiming to mimic the old A008R that I used to autocross, they are 50. They were some sticky tires.
Same here. It's been quite a while...
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      04-02-2013, 05:47 PM   #236
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50? I shall try them out.
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      04-02-2013, 05:52 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
If they are aiming to mimic the old A008R that I used to autocross, they are 50. They were some sticky tires.
I remember trying the old A008R when we running out of stock on Toyo RA1s. From what I remember, they gripped like hell out of the box but heat cycled very fast and became rock hard in no time. You had plenty of meat left but with not much grip. Quite contrary to the RA1 that only got grippier with time, not unlike the NT01.


If it is still the case with the new A008R, IMO, we won't have a NT01 beater...

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      04-02-2013, 06:01 PM   #238
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Given the A008-R is 25 years old, I doubt we can draw *any* conclusions about compounding on the new AD-08R. Profound advancements have been made since that time of course.
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      04-02-2013, 06:25 PM   #239
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http://importbible.com/2013/03/28/te...d08r-with-hks/

Looks like the AD08R's are about 2 seconds faster than the old on a 60 second lap ( Yokohama's drivers).

That is about the delta ( or maybe bigger) than between the current AD-08 and the NT-01 I think. interesting.
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      04-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #240
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The A008Rs became a rock which is why we were all doing stupid stuff like Formula-V. Polymers, plastics and elastomers have come a long way since those days. Your grocery shelves are proof of that.
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      04-03-2013, 04:19 PM   #241
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You can still get A008R in correct sizes for the original Mini, sounds like a good alternative to all these junk delaminating tires
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      04-03-2013, 04:41 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
The A008Rs became a rock which is why we were all doing stupid stuff like Formula-V. Polymers, plastics and elastomers have come a long way since those days. Your grocery shelves are proof of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Given the A008-R is 25 years old, I doubt we can draw *any* conclusions about compounding on the new AD-08R. Profound advancements have been made since that time of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arter View Post
http://importbible.com/2013/03/28/te...d08r-with-hks/

Looks like the AD08R's are about 2 seconds faster than the old on a 60 second lap ( Yokohama's drivers).

That is about the delta ( or maybe bigger) than between the current AD-08 and the NT-01 I think. interesting.
Agreed that we cannot draw any conclusions yet on the AD08R . Can't wait for some testing and reviews.

However thread compounds are always some sort of compromise. Take modern Hoosiers for example, they grip like hell but are not known for good resistance to heat cycling. IMO, the old A008R was designed more towards ultimate grip and less to heat cycling resistance, whereas the old RA1 had less grip but resisted much better to heat cycling. The NT01 apparently is using a very similar (not to say the same) compound as the 20 year old RA1. I do agree that technology advancements can allow for less compromises.

Further, IMO, anyone using NT01s to get ultimate lap time are kidding themselves. I find the NT01 is a very good compromise between cost, decent grip, at limit predictability, decent wear and excellent heat cycling resistance. An excellent tire choice for HPDE and the lapping hobbyist. For ultimate lap times, there are better options than the NT01.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-03-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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