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      07-07-2013, 11:11 PM   #1
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Choppiness in M-Mode when not on WOT in low gears

I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but if I pull out from a stop in M mode, while light on the throttle, my car gets very jumpy - as if I'm pumping the throttle quickly. Applying a good amount more throttle or completely letting off the gas will smooth things out. This happens in 1st or 2nd gear, and between 3k and 6k RPM.

I was also experiencing this while holding a steady throttle through some turns in 2nd gear ~5-6k rpm. It was quite frustrating because it began to disrupt the balance of the car through the turn.

If this is not a common thing, I'll try to record a video of it so you can see what I'm referring to.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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      07-07-2013, 11:45 PM   #2
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What shift setting are you using? 1-5?
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      07-07-2013, 11:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualvaccine View Post
I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but if I pull out from a stop in M mode, while light on the throttle, my car gets very jumpy
sounds like normal s5/power behavior with DCT if that's what you have and that's how you have m-mode set.

basically you've got the throttle set to max sensitivity - there's probably a bunch of other technical reasons that have to do with the clutch, the gear ratio, etc but I'd have no idea what they are.

For me it feels normal since I grew up driving sticks and that's exactly how they behaved if you feathered the clutch without enough gas.

Should feel just like teaching your wife/GF to drive a stick
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      07-07-2013, 11:59 PM   #4
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Take the power setting out of "sport plus" or get used to the sport setting.
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      07-08-2013, 12:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alee0729 View Post
What shift setting are you using? 1-5?
It's set to 5. I've only had the car a short period and have not yet attempted to modify the default settings for M mode. Does anyone have any suggested pre-sets?

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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
For me it feels normal since I grew up driving sticks and that's exactly how they behaved if you feathered the clutch without enough gas.

Should feel just like teaching your wife/GF to drive a stick
That's exactly what it feels like - "Feathering the clutch without enough gas."

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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
sounds like normal s5/power behavior with DCT
Great! This is my first experience with DCT, and I just wanted to ensure there wasn't something wrong. Thanks
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      07-08-2013, 12:45 AM   #6
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I had this same issue and it was kind of embarrassing with people in the car BUT there is hope.

When I was at Hopkins I went to the local dealership (BMW of Towson) and had a long conversation with the M/Dinan-Tech there. He said the Dinan tune's main benefit was that it "smoothens" out the car. Ever since I went with the tune I've never had the embarrassment of a choppy accelerator.

With the tune, I didn't notice an increase in power but the 200 RPM increase is pretty cool though.
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      07-08-2013, 06:24 AM   #7
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This is going to sound stupid, but try this:

Make sure your head is flat back against the head rest.

Now, apply the same amount of throttle that usually results in your car bucking.

Does it still happen?
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      07-08-2013, 08:06 AM   #8
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Step 1: sell DCT.
Step 2: buy new 6MT

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      07-08-2013, 08:47 AM   #9
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Just add higher octane gas and your problem will almost completely go away. I've had my car on both coasts and in Cali's 91 octane (vs. 93) that's what used to happen. Then I mixed some 100 octane and it was smooth again.
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      07-08-2013, 09:34 AM   #10
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are you running a tune?
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      07-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #11
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are you running a tune?
Nope, bone stock competition package.
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      07-08-2013, 01:01 PM   #12
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I have a 6MT, but my low RPM partial throttle use to behave similarly. Then I updated my stock ECU to OEM 240E, and it smoothed out the throttle behavior.
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      07-08-2013, 02:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
Then I updated my stock ECU to OEM 240E, and it smoothed out the throttle behavior.
I've now heard a few people talking about updates to their ECU. Is there a sticky or post someone could link to that could give me more info on that?

What are the benefits, costs, dangers, etc?
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      07-08-2013, 02:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualvaccine View Post
I've now heard a few people talking about updates to their ECU. Is there a sticky or post someone could link to that could give me more info on that?

What are the benefits, costs, dangers, etc?
no formal link, do a search for 240E on this forum for details, but here's a decent thread to read, you might be on the 170E software as a 2011, some people attribute the major differences at the 231E software.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...highlight=240E
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797020

You can get it updated remotely or locally by an independent coder. You can also take it to the dealership. Independent prices vary greatly, but there are various forum vendors here you can support by giving them your business. (Benvo, EAS...just to name a few, I'm not reviewing these vendors here, I'm sure they all do a superior job!)

Dealerships I believe would charge around $220-$250 (last time I heard), and they update idrive's navigation/entertainment modules at the same time, whereas the independents could update only the ECU. Dealers may do it for free if you're coming in for warranty work that requires ECU or idrive updates (have you updated your DCT software re: the SIB? I'm not sure what production month the DCT lag was fixed)

Benefits for me aside from throttle smoothness was also a bit more noticible mpg gain at highway cruising speeds. I suspect the throttle sensitivity was removed to allow "finer tuning" of the amount of thottle/gas input when your feet moves the pedal, hence the mpg gain here.

Dangers...well, I suppose independents can mess it up or anything can happen when you have 3rd parties do the work, though I think the risk is low. I think there's minimum overall risk as the software is OEM anyways.


You should also look into DCT software updates. As I own a 6MT, I'm not keeping up to date the various discussions on OEM DCT updates or even DCT behavior, some of which could be normal. So I wouldn't count those out as resolutions either. I guess what I'm saying is, with ECU and DCT softwares, just make sure you're on the latest and greatest and start from there

Last edited by mdosu; 07-08-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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      07-08-2013, 05:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
no formal link, do a search for 240E on this forum for details, but here's a decent thread to read, you might be on the 170E software as a 2011, some people attribute the major differences at the 231E software.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...highlight=240E
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797020

You can get it updated remotely or locally by an independent coder. You can also take it to the dealership. Independent prices vary greatly, but there are various forum vendors here you can support by giving them your business. (Benvo, EAS...just to name a few, I'm not reviewing these vendors here, I'm sure they all do a superior job!)

Dealerships I believe would charge around $220-$250 (last time I heard), and they update idrive's navigation/entertainment modules at the same time, whereas the independents could update only the ECU. Dealers may do it for free if you're coming in for warranty work that requires ECU or idrive updates (have you updated your DCT software re: the SIB? I'm not sure what production month the DCT lag was fixed)

Benefits for me aside from throttle smoothness was also a bit more noticible mpg gain at highway cruising speeds. I suspect the throttle sensitivity was removed to allow "finer tuning" of the amount of thottle/gas input when your feet moves the pedal, hence the mpg gain here.

Dangers...well, I suppose independents can mess it up or anything can happen when you have 3rd parties do the work, though I think the risk is low. I think there's minimum overall risk as the software is OEM anyways.


You should also look into DCT software updates. As I own a 6MT, I'm not keeping up to date the various discussions on OEM DCT updates or even DCT behavior, some of which could be normal. So I wouldn't count those out as resolutions either. I guess what I'm saying is, with ECU and DCT softwares, just make sure you're on the latest and greatest and start from there
Wow, thanks for putting all that together. I really appreciate it. I'll do a little more research on this, but it sounds like a great place to start. Thanks again!
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      07-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #16
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I have definitely had this happen to me when i just got the car. Generally i noticed it when in S5 and applying partial throttle on Sport/Sport+ mode in lower gears.

Eventually, you learn it can be avoided most of the time by just applying very light throttle with those settings or go full WOT, granted road conditions permit.

It is just the nature of a manual transmission. Yes, the DCT is a manual transmission, believe it or not. I am not sure why people would tell you to ditch the DCT and go buy a 6MT because i have definitely had this happen on 5MT/6MT cars before.
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      07-08-2013, 07:28 PM   #17
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Mine lurches or creeps or something at very low speeds but thats normal. Not sure if that's what you mean but you just have to speed up a little and it smooths out.
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      07-08-2013, 09:26 PM   #18
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Make sure your head is flat back against the head rest.
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      07-08-2013, 09:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisance View Post
This is going to sound stupid, but try this:

Make sure your head is flat back against the head rest.

Now, apply the same amount of throttle that usually results in your car bucking.

Does it still happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by debraarzn View Post
Make sure your head is flat back against the head rest.
Ok, that's 2 of you now... What inside joke am I missing here?
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      07-08-2013, 10:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullrouted View Post
Step 1: sell DCT.
Step 2: buy new 6MT

thats what I had to do
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      07-23-2013, 12:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensi09 View Post
Take the power setting out of "sport plus" or get used to the sport setting.
This.

The Power - Sport Plus setting tends to promote PIO, pilot induced oscillations where the throttle foot loads and unloads the throttle pedal as the drive tries to modulate the throttle input at anything other than WOT. You can drive the car and not have the oscillation but often the driver and the car will get out of sequence and the lurching or choppiness will manifest, violently even.
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