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      02-19-2013, 03:46 PM   #23
Lemon Jelly M3
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Originally Posted by Curt2000 View Post
Since when was the ///M division concerned with fuel savings and CO2? I say to hell with them on M cars...if I wanted a car with great fuel efficiency and CO2 ratings Id get a 328i.
Just wait until your car is delivered.
Are you planning to drive your M3 daily?
See what you think of the gas mileage and post your concern.
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      02-19-2013, 03:48 PM   #24
Curt2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Jelly M3 View Post
Just wait until your car is delivered.
Are you planning to drive your M3 daily?
See what you think of the gas mileage and post your concern.
I drove an E60 M5 as a daily for nearly a year...wasn't so much concerned with the cost just the time associated with filling up twice a week.

To hear that V10 with corsa exhaust sing...made it 100% worth any time/money cost. A high revving and powerful NA motor will always have more character than a turbo motor regardless of efficiency or torque gains. That of-course is my opinion and why I currently have the last of the NA motors on order.
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      02-19-2013, 05:23 PM   #25
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To this, Nitschke reaffirms M's stance on RWD: "Our philosophy in regards to steering feel and precision is that rear-wheel drive is the best solution," ... "xDrive brings an 80-90kg weight penalty and the M differential is the industry's best rear-drive set-up."
I read that as "I just want to remind everyone that our sellout of M philosophy wasn't total. We have drawn the line at the AWD through the next generation M5 or M3 and maybe beyond that."

Quote:

To this, Nitschke basically says it's on us (as customers). "From a production aspect, it would be much better to only offer the dual-clutch gearbox," said Nitschke. "But as long as there is demand, we'll offer the manual."
I read that as, "If all of you would just buy DCT, we could incorporate the transmission pricing to the standard features, up the MSRP by $5k to reflect the hardware." Those that like their paddles should hope a lot of us keep buying manuals unless you're the charitable type.

Quote:

Finally, regarding the move away from naturally aspirated engines, Nitschke said: "It's not a change in philosophy, it's a change in technology. Turbocharging is better for fuel savings and CO2."
Bullshit. The turdbro technology was around long before the E30 went into production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
"But as long as there is demand, we'll offer the manual."

Ominous-sounding... The reviews of the M5 manual have been pretty crappy - good way to reduce demand. Also, dual-clutch gearboxes seem to hide some of the downsides of forced induction. Comes down to the point that those of us that love driving manuals need to keep buying them.
Actually, from a variety of tests of the M5 DCT and MT, gone are the days where it hammered the competition to dust. While it's fast, that alone does not a great car make.

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Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
I think they are just pandering to the public in regards to the manual. With most automakers shifting (no pun intended) to the automatic/dct type transmissions, my guess is that the manual will become a thing of the past.

My guess is that dct to manual sales are probably in the 4:1 area or more.
BMW stacked the deck by populating dealer lots with DCT equipped models; something that was probably a clever move as more and more potential buyers come from a background of zero experience driving a manual transmission vehicle. However, the ratio of built-to-order M3s for US customers is ~50-50, if memory serves me correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotk View Post
DCT offers superior performance, but I would guess that many (though probably no one on this forum) opt for it due to an inability to operate a manual transmission. It's difficult to text and drive a manual.

Ironically, for me, the fact that I don't need that last nth degree of performance and just enjoy the act of driving and shifting is what kept me in the 6MT camp.

It's a shame, but there is no doubt in my mind that manual transmissions will die off - probably in a couple of generations.
+1

There are levels of competency as well as comfort that typically factor into one's decision as to which tranny to take. Some that can drive an MT might opt to pass due to concerns (e.g. "What if I money shift?! OMG!" or "Can I really embarrass myself more easily in an MT? Yup. I can't deal with that!")

I'm not so pessimistic about the future of the MTs. Those that buy new will likely continue to buy DCT or equivalent, but in time, the used car market could become a factor as the current generation of DCT cars roll out of warranty and we start hearing horror stories about repair/replacement costs equating to > 50% of the purchase price of a seven year old M3 DCT.
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      02-19-2013, 06:56 PM   #26
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The F80 M3 / F82 M4 has been confirmed to be powered by an inline 6 cylinder multi-turbo engine, which looks to output 415hp.

Disappointing that the new power plant will not be any more powerful then the s65.

I'm sure tuners are drooling at the thought of unlocking these new ECUs and cranking up the boost to output more power..the question then becomes how long it would take. Think of how long it was before tuners unlocked the n54's secrets and are now making great power with their tunes

I think we can also safely assume that the MT for M3/M4s are going no where..they had every reason to yank them from the M5/M6 and didn't.
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      02-19-2013, 06:58 PM   #27
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the CEO of BMW M's name is Friedrich Nitschke (Nietzsche?) ??

no wonder they keep going on and on about philosophy and claiming to understand the "will" of people when it comes to car buying
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      02-19-2013, 08:05 PM   #28
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Gas mileage on the e9x DCT is better, noticeably better, than on the 6spd version. That seventh gear is doing it.

Brings up the question - why doesn't BMW develop a seven speed manual? From what this BMW fellow said, they are interested in gas mileage. That being the case, where's the seventh gear? Could it be they're not interested in improving the 6 speed (and it's popularity) in order to expedite its demise?
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      02-19-2013, 08:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Jelly M3 View Post
Just wait until your car is delivered.
Are you planning to drive your M3 daily?
See what you think of the gas mileage and post your concern.
ROFL....my DD gets 11-12mpg. My M3 is my high mileage vehicle.
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      02-21-2013, 03:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Well cars sitting on the showroom floor unsold would mean that their counterparts were the desired models likely.
...and perhaps people who purchased the DCT were satisfied and kept their cars, while those who bought 6-MT decided to sell at a higher rate?

Just playing Devil's advocate. You can't determine which one sells more by a limited survey of what is available locally.
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      02-21-2013, 03:39 PM   #31
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If you love driving cars with a manual transmission, and are already depressed by this thread, read this and get... more depressed.


"With nearly 80 percent of buyers opting for the PDK dual-clutch gearbox over a manual transmission for popular models like the 911 and Cayman..."

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2013/2/2...-Soon-7713024/

The quote by Walter Rohrl =
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