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      06-04-2013, 09:44 AM   #1
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Mdm comp us vs euro mdm

Anyone know the diffrence
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      06-04-2013, 10:01 AM   #2
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Euro mdm allows for more slip angle but will save you if things get crazy. Worth the coding if you track a lot.
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      06-04-2013, 11:47 AM   #3
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Agreed. I don't find a whole lot of use for it on the street.
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      06-04-2013, 05:03 PM   #4
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Euro MDM is a must have for the track IMO.

It lets you get way more aggressive before it 'saves' you.

Worth it.
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      06-04-2013, 05:24 PM   #5
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I love Euro MDM as it's not intrusive at all like US MDM but you have to be much more careful with it as it doesn't "save" you as I found out the hard way a couple days ago:

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      06-04-2013, 06:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I love Euro MDM as it's not intrusive at all like US MDM but you have to be much more careful with it as it doesn't "save" you as I found out the hard way a couple days ago:

That little crest is pretty tricky. If you have the wheel turned and the rear end hasn't had a chance to settle, it's coming around- like it did on you. I'm thinking once you got off track, MDM didn't have a chance to correct it and the rear end was too light to fix the problem too. Looks like you turned in a little early??
Nice save though.

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      06-04-2013, 06:33 PM   #7
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just looks like bad driving...JOKES! haha. Looked like a sneaky turn.
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      06-04-2013, 07:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
That little crest is pretty tricky. If you have the wheel turned and the rear end hasn't had a chance to settle, it's coming around- like it did on you. I'm thinking once you got off track, MDM didn't have a chance to correct it and the rear end was too light to fix the problem too. Looks like you turned in a little early??
Nice save though.
Interesting. DSC would have selectively applied the rear brakes which would have affected yaw but you are right...if the rear tires aren't touching the surface it can't correct. Also, ABS was down (malfunction indicator was on) because it was so hot my rear tires were spinning 100% of the time. It was a surreal experience for sure and I'll never track again at those temps with street tires.

Your are correct...I came around quick as I was going slow on a warm down lap and wanted to get out of the way of another driver. Serves me right for being so nice lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmdreamer View Post
just looks like bad driving...JOKES! haha. Looked like a sneaky turn.
No, pretty much just bad driving on my part
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      06-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Interesting. DSC would have selectively applied the rear brakes which would have affected yaw but you are right...if the rear tires aren't touching the surface it can't correct. Also, ABS was down (malfunction indicator was on) because it was so hot my rear tires were spinning 100% of the time. It was a surreal experience for sure and I'll never track again at those temps with street tires.
To counter oversteer, DSC will apply the front outside brake (front left in the case of your vid) to resist the yaw moment, not rear brakes.

Inside rear brake is applied to counter understeer by increasing the yaw moment.

If you say your ABS was down, maybe DSC/MDM was not functional either...

Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-04-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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      06-05-2013, 01:17 AM   #10
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I believe US MDM is 3% slip angle and with the Euro MDM is allows 7% slip angle buddy
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      06-05-2013, 01:44 AM   #11
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      06-05-2013, 11:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
To counter oversteer, DSC will apply the front outside brake (front left in the case of your vid) to resist the yaw moment, not rear brakes.

Inside rear brake is applied to counter understeer by increasing the yaw moment.

If you say your ABS was down, maybe DSC/MDM was not functional either...
Thx for the clarification that makes sense. Yeah not sure if DSC/MDM was off either but perhaps if it was still active, was adversely affected by the lack of grip from the melting tires.
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      06-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meez View Post
Euro MDM is a must have for the track IMO.

It lets you get way more aggressive before it 'saves' you.

Worth it.
+1
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      06-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meez View Post
Euro MDM is a must have for the track IMO.

It lets you get way more aggressive before it 'saves' you.

Worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_traitor View Post
+1
I still find it too intrusive for track use.

I love it for a romp in twisties though , where the environment is not as well controlled compared to a track.
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      06-05-2013, 12:23 PM   #15
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I believe the US MDM has a 3% slip angle and the Euro MDM has a 7% slip angle. I am not too sure but this is what I have heard. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. I know for certain that it is at least, if not more than double the slip angle of the US MDM.

A plus to the Euro MDM is that it will be less intrusive on the car when you are on the track, even when not making turns. If you hit a bump (large elevation change) it can at times signal the DSC to kick in. Euro MDM will still interrupt at times but way less than US MDM. This is something I believe every track driver needs.
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      06-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I still find it too intrusive for track use.

I love it for a romp in twisties though , where the environment is not as well controlled compared to a track.
I have had it kick in at times on the Nurburgring when not even turning. Needless to say the Nurburgring is very wild so its understandable. If you think it may be too intrusive maybe you should try to smoothen out those spots on the track when you are driving, it may be trying to tell you something. I have taken it fairly hard on the Ring and it's very smooth and allows for a good amount of play.

In no way am I trying to challenge your track abilities, just giving ideas and opinions like all track guys on here should. I was told the same by some good friends. I tried a few different things on turns and the DSC stopped engaging and my time dropped!
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      06-05-2013, 12:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_traitor View Post
This is something I believe every track driver needs.
No, all a track driver needs is the "DSC off" button
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      06-05-2013, 12:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I still find it too intrusive for track use.

I love it for a romp in twisties though , where the environment is not as well controlled compared to a track.
Another note would be that maybe you are getting to another level of driving where DSC OFF is the way to go. I have driven with a few drivers on the Ring with DSC OFF and they were getting it! These guys are very good drivers though in the low 7's high 7's. Thats fast for the Ring. The car felt very stable but at the same time a bucking bronco......in the end I am trying to say that it really felt like racing. Hahaha!
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      06-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
No, all a track driver needs is the "DSC off" button
Maybe for you but for now I will stick with MDM. I would like to see some of your videos with DSC off. Those are always the interesting ones to watch.
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      06-05-2013, 12:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_traitor View Post
I have had it kick in at times on the Nurburgring when not even turning. Needless to say the Nurburgring is very wild so its understandable. If you think it may be too intrusive maybe you should try to smoothen out those spots on the track when you are driving, it may be trying to tell you something. I have taken it fairly hard on the Ring and it's very smooth and allows for a good amount of play.

In no way am I trying to challenge your track abilities, just giving ideas and opinions like all track guys on here should. I was told the same by some good friends. I tried a few different things on turns and the DSC stopped engaging and my time dropped!
I have been tracking for almost 20 years and have been an instructor for some time now too. That being said, I still have A LOT to learn and improve (otherwise I would not be doing the day job I am doing today ). I can still confirm that when you start pushing closer to the limit, MDM is too intrusive. Even Euro MDM, but it is better than US MDM.

This is probably exasperated by the fact that I am running a square setup. However, at our last track day, I was running my street staggered setup because the track was wet, and even then MDM was kicking-in more than I liked. Switched it off, and everything was fine.

That said, running the Green Hell takes balls of steel. I would most certainly keep MDM on myself until I have A LOT of laps under my belt to feel confident. This is certainly where Euro MDM comes-in handy .

Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-05-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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      06-05-2013, 12:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_traitor View Post
Maybe for you but for now I will stick with MDM. I would like to see some of your videos with DSC off. Those are always the interesting ones to watch.
Here you go:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...0#post13936090

Post 571

Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-05-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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      06-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I have been tracking for almost 20 years and have been an instructor for some time now too. That being said, I still have A LOT to learn and improve (otherwise I would not be doing the day job I am doing today ). I can still confirm that when you start pushing closer to the limit, MDM is too intrusive. Even Euro MDM, but it is better than US MDM.

This is probably exasperated by the fact that I am running a square setup. However, at our last track day, I was running my street staggered setup because the track was wet, and even then MDM was kicking-in more than I liked. Switched it off, and everything was fine.

That said, running the Green Hell takes balls of steel. I would most certainly keep MDM on myself until I have A LOT of laps under my belt to feel confident. This is certainly where Euro MDM comes-in handy .
Agreed, I have driven with a few drivers on the Ring with DSC OFF but these guys have a great deal of experience. I would in no way try that for some time. I have lost one car on there already and I am not in the rush to do it again.
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