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      08-27-2007, 12:34 PM   #89
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The RS4 with the older generation DFI gets terrible mileage.
It is slightly heavier than the M3, and more importantly, AWD.
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      08-27-2007, 01:18 PM   #90
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I am waiting for the GTR, ISF, and the revised 911--not just for the M3. I've said that many times on this forum.
Lucid,

The GTR should be a screamer. Can't hardly wait for the first reviews. I was interested to see you are also looking at the ISF. What I find facinating about this car is Lexus is apparently saying they think it will be fuel efficient enough to avoid the gas guzzler tax. If so, what an achievement in this class. In addition, considering Lexus' customer care and build quality, cost of ownership should be the bargain of the class. Interestingly it is also going to sport the 8 speed automatic. Can't seem to get over the looks though. Speaking along the lines of what car to purchase and why. I am currently favouring the E90 M3, great all arounder, great drivetrain, practicality, likely priced very competitively and is manufactured from an ED friendly company. At this point, my second pick would be: 335, less an M but at much lower price, the real performace/$ bargain of the group. Third pick: Cayman S, give it DFI and it would definitely move up to a near tie with the M3. Porsche is the only car company I know that can make a car that doesn't need mods and be as comfortable on the track as it is a daily driver, which is no mean feat. I would consider a facelifted 997 with DFI but I don't know if can stomach the price bulge especially considering the Cayman's mid engine design is an inheritantly better handling design than the 997 - Love mid engine cars. Price points, performance, and practicality variables between these cars will play a major factor in my decision. For me, the positions of these cars seem to change fairly frequently. It begs the question, do I want a great all arounder with more practicality or one with a similar attributes but less performance that is priced to sell, or simply a true sports car with track prowess. Still not sure. Exciting times we live in.
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      08-27-2007, 01:26 PM   #91
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It is slightly heavier than the M3, and more importantly, AWD.
It's interesting to see their DFI still doesn't do much for mileage, despite these handicaps.
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      08-27-2007, 01:50 PM   #92
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Lucid,

The GTR should be a screamer. Can't hardly wait for the first reviews. I was interested to see you are also looking at the ISF. What I find facinating about this car is Lexus is apparently saying they think it will be fuel efficient enough to avoid the gas guzzler tax. If so, what an achievement in this class. In addition, considering Lexus' customer care and build quality, cost of ownership should be the bargain of the class. Interestingly it is also going to sport the 8 speed automatic. Can't seem to get over the looks though. Speaking along the lines of what car to purchase and why. I am currently favouring the E90 M3, great all arounder, great drivetrain, practicality, likely priced very competitively and is manufactured from an ED friendly company. At this point, my second pick would be: 335, less an M but at much lower price, the real performace/$ bargain of the group. Third pick: Cayman S, give it DFI and it would definitely move up to a near tie with the M3. Porsche is the only car company I know that can make a car that doesn't need mods and be as comfortable on the track as it is a daily driver, which is no mean feat. I would consider a facelifted 997 with DFI but I don't know if can stomach the price bulge especially considering the Cayman's mid engine design is an inheritantly better handling design than the 997 - Love mid engine cars. Price points, performance, and practicality variables between these cars will play a major factor in my decision. For me, the positions of these cars seem to change fairly frequently. It begs the question, do I want a great all arounder with more practicality or one with a similar attributes but less performance that is priced to sell, or simply a true sports car with track prowess. Still not sure. Exciting times we live in.
The GTR will, without a doubt, be a solid performer. It'll probably eat up the M3 at the higher trim/engine level. I think the looks are just a bit over the top though. I included the ISF possibility just to be open-minded. To me, its looks are not over the top, but more like unusual if that makes sense. Although I don't question the superior handling of the Cayman S (or a used 911S for that matter), I am a bit concerned about the lack of a real back seat. I don't know if either the GTR or the ISF will provide that either.
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      08-27-2007, 01:52 PM   #93
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You might find it interesting that several members (997 owners) of the Rennteam forum (porsche/ferrari, in case you didn't know) are waiting for the M to be released. Some of them, like me, want to have all the facts first before making their next purchase.
Devo,

Do you fancy the group Devo, had to ask? I would say from my observation, most Porsche-philes wouldn't consider the M3. They think it is beneath them. Shows how snobbery can cloud reality. I have heard of quite a few M3 owners jump ship to Porsche, climbing the social ladder sorta speak. Of course, there are many former Porsche owners who now lay claim in reality or only figuratively to Ferrari. Speaking of Ferrari, any new word on a possible Dino derivitive? I have not heard of a lot of Porshce people move to BMW unless they needed second car for practicality or their finances were not what they once were. Sounds like your experience may be different. Driven the Cayman S much? It sounds like you prefer the 997s. I would be interested in hearing your comments regarding the positive and negatives of both cars in relation to one another.
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      08-27-2007, 01:59 PM   #94
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The GTR will, without a doubt, be a solid performer. It'll probably eat up the M3 at the higher trim/engine level. I think the looks are just a bit over the top though. I included the ISF possibility just to be open-minded. To me, its looks are not over the top, but more like unusual if that makes sense. Although I don't question the superior handling of the Cayman S (or a used 911S for that matter), I am a bit concerned about the lack of a real back seat. I don't know if either the GTR or the ISF will provide that either.
So you included the ISF to look more open minded, only kidding. Ya, the ISF should have more cramped seating than the E90 M3, if the IS 350 is any indication. I also totally agree with your comments about the GTR, may end up being a Porsche killer, especially considering the low projected price.
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      08-27-2007, 02:13 PM   #95
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So you included the ISF to look more open minded, only kidding.
Yeah, basically. Seriously, it needs to be driven I'd say.

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I also totally agree with your comments about the GTR, may end up being a Porsche killer, especially considering the low projected price.
I thought it would be announced in 3 different price points with different performance characteristics. I am not sure if the based model will be able to deal with the M3 or the 911S.
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      08-27-2007, 02:26 PM   #96
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I thought it would be announced in 3 different price points with different performance characteristics. I am not sure if the based model will be able to deal with the M3 or the 911S.
I think you are right. I have heard of at least two price points. Whatever price points they are, I would would venture to say they will be a better performance value than BMW. And the GTR at it's highest price point will make the C2 look like highway robbery. Remember, we are not even talking Infinity here, though I hear they are considering a Infinity version as well.
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      08-27-2007, 03:09 PM   #97
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Yeah, basically. Seriously, it needs to be driven I'd say.



I thought it would be announced in 3 different price points with different performance characteristics. I am not sure if the based model will be able to deal with the M3 or the 911S.
The thing with even the base-model GTR is going to be it's modability(is this a word?). These things are going to be monsters in the aftermarket. Too bad they're so ugly.
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      08-27-2007, 04:15 PM   #98
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Yeah, basically. Seriously, it needs to be driven I'd say.



I thought it would be announced in 3 different price points with different performance characteristics. I am not sure if the based model will be able to deal with the M3 or the 911S.
well, considering the base model has been benchmarked against the 911tt, i think it will hold its own against the M3.
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      08-27-2007, 04:24 PM   #99
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well, considering the base model has been benchmarked against the 911tt.
How so? Source? Specs?
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      08-27-2007, 04:34 PM   #100
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no real specs, but:
1. The many rumored variants are just that, rumors. Nissan has never confirmed (or denied) variants of the GTR.
2. the car seen most frequently testing with the GTR mule is a 911tt.
3. Nissan has said that the tt is the target for the GTR (it might take me a while to dig up the quote, but i'll post a link when i find it)

EDIT:full disclosure, i'm eagerly awaiting the GTR, the M3 (or C63 AMG) is a fall back car if the GTR can't be a daily driver.
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      08-27-2007, 04:36 PM   #101
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no real specs, but:
1. The many rumored variants are just that, rumors. Nissan has never confirmed (or denied) variants of the GTR.
2. the car seen most frequently testing with the GTR mule is a 911tt.
3. Nissan has said that the tt is the target for the GTR (it might take me a while to dig up the quote, but i'll post a link when i find it)
Sounds like all is rumors at this point anyway then. Nissan could be referencing the top GTR model--if there is such a thing--in relation to the tt, or they could be talking about the only GTR.
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      08-27-2007, 04:42 PM   #102
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possibly, but i find it hard to believe that hey'd be testing the top model first, and then releasing a detuned version later. i'll try to find the quote from the nissan exec about targetting the tt.
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      08-27-2007, 07:02 PM   #103
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2. the car seen most frequently testing with the GTR mule is a 911tt.
3. Nissan has said that the tt is the target for the GTR (it might take me a while to dig up the quote, but i'll post a link when i find it)
I have seen and read about this it to. It seems like a 997TT is always with it when it has been caught testing.
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      08-27-2007, 07:34 PM   #104
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Coup? I don't think they lost the reign.
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      08-27-2007, 07:54 PM   #105
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Somehow I could never see spending big money on a Japanese car, especially a Nissan no matter how technically brilliant. I don't now... anything over 40K and it just has to be Euro.
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      08-27-2007, 08:02 PM   #106
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Coup? I don't think they lost the reign.
Ya, the C2S has alway been a few steps behind the M3.
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      08-27-2007, 08:04 PM   #107
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Ya, the C2S has alway been a few steps behind the M3.
Huh? LOL.
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      08-27-2007, 11:47 PM   #108
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Ya, the C2S has alway been a few steps behind the M3.
Whatcha smokin. gimmie some of that.
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      08-28-2007, 11:27 AM   #109
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Devo,

Do you fancy the group Devo, had to ask? I would say from my observation, most Porsche-philes wouldn't consider the M3. They think it is beneath them. Shows how snobbery can cloud reality. I have heard of quite a few M3 owners jump ship to Porsche, climbing the social ladder sorta speak. Of course, there are many former Porsche owners who now lay claim in reality or only figuratively to Ferrari. Speaking of Ferrari, any new word on a possible Dino derivitive? I have not heard of a lot of Porshce people move to BMW unless they needed second car for practicality or their finances were not what they once were. Sounds like your experience may be different. Driven the Cayman S much? It sounds like you prefer the 997s. I would be interested in hearing your comments regarding the positive and negatives of both cars in relation to one another.

It's kind of my nickname.

I, in no way, want to be dismissive, but Lucid has bantered me to death; LOL. I don't have it in me right now to discuss the merits of each car. I have previously posted numerous comments about the 911's attributes, as well as my feelings about the BMW v. Porsche thing. So, I'll try to leave that alone. A search may yield you some insight, if you choose.

I don't have a problem, coming back to BMW if my expectations/requirements are met.
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      08-28-2007, 12:04 PM   #110
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but Lucid has bantered me to death; LOL.
We have bantered each other to death in case you haven't noticed. But I am willing to buy you a "Hacker-Pschorr" if I ever run into you in your next 911. Given the discussion on this beer brand on the other thread, I thought that would be an appropiate drink for a P-car person.
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