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      08-24-2007, 09:02 PM   #1
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Are our friends mounting a coup?

According to Autolies, PAG is bringing in the calvary:

http://4wheelsblog.com/spy-photos/sp...targa-facelift
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      08-24-2007, 09:12 PM   #2
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Interesting.
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      08-24-2007, 10:06 PM   #3
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Not surprised about the hp increase. I wonder if that's coming form larger displacement though. Either way, that would give the 911S the edge it needs over the M3.
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      08-24-2007, 10:32 PM   #4
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Not surprised about the hp increase. I wonder if that's coming form larger displacement though. Either way, that would give the 911S the edge it needs over the M3.
From what I heard it will be the introduction of DFI only, notice the claimed mileage improvement. Sure wish the M division would have taken a page from the 335 and been ahead of the game with DFI in the M3. If wishes were fishes....
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      08-25-2007, 01:15 AM   #5
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400 hp

Wow 400 hp is going to make this sucker faaast. I heard 385 from another poster here how loves P cars. I'd hate to even estimate the price increase though! These suckers are going to get to 6 figures easily.
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      08-25-2007, 01:24 AM   #6
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Hotness. Pcar over M3 anyday if price isn't an factor.
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      08-25-2007, 04:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
According to Autolies, PAG is bringing in the calvary:

http://4wheelsblog.com/spy-photos/sp...targa-facelift
HOLY SH!T ............
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      08-25-2007, 06:05 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Wow 400 hp is going to make this sucker faaast. I heard 385 from another poster here how loves P cars. I'd hate to even estimate the price increase though! These suckers are going to get to 6 figures easily.
The HP bump will range between 375-400. The latter is a little optimistic by Porsche's standards. They don't usually give the customer that much. (One can hope though!) The facelift and bump will likely be presented at Geneva. It should be on sale mid year. I wouldn't expect much of a price increase; other than possibly the standard 1.5-3%.

Thre is some foundation to the 400 HP output rumor. PAG is stopping production of the current GT3 by the end oy this year, allegedly to give it's successor somewhere near 440 HP to make room for the 400 HP S; and so on.

Last edited by devo; 08-25-2007 at 06:43 AM.
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      08-25-2007, 08:34 AM   #9
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Wow 400 hp is going to make this sucker faaast. I heard 385 from another poster here how loves P cars. I'd hate to even estimate the price increase though! These suckers are going to get to 6 figures easily.
Unlike most manufactures, Porsche usually doesn't increase their prices much, even with facelifts and horsepower bumps. Their prices are already high enough to win the profit wars.
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      08-25-2007, 10:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Wow 400 hp is going to make this sucker faaast. I heard 385 from another poster here how loves P cars. I'd hate to even estimate the price increase though! These suckers are going to get to 6 figures easily.

LOL: I wonder if it is I that you are refering to. I do love P cars; but basically I am only in love with the 911S, turbo, and of course, CGT. I am also in love with the M3. The E92's price will dictate if that love affair will continue, or if I will run off with my mistress.
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      08-25-2007, 10:54 AM   #11
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I think Porsche will try to hit the 100hp/liter barrier. So 360 and 380 hp.

Buy-buy M3. Why buy a lardy GT with vague steering, based on a dime a dozen pseudo luxury small sedan, with questionable looks, interior 90% similiar to a base 318 BMW (98% if it has an M-Pack)???

A base Carrera is barely more expensive here in Europe and only gives up a little hp/kg (remember it is much lighter then the new M, so the 60hp difference is actually much closer).
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      08-25-2007, 11:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
I think Porsche will try to hit the 100hp/liter barrier. So 360 and 380 hp.

Buy-buy M3. Why buy a lardy GT with vague steering, based on a dime a dozen pseudo luxury small sedan, with questionable looks, interior 90% similiar to a base 318 BMW (98% if it has an M-Pack)???

A base Carrera is barely more expensive here in Europe and only gives up a little hp/kg (remember it is much lighter then the new M, so the 60hp difference is actually much closer).
And, let's see you are driving a RS4, which costs $66k base here (however you look at it is more expensive than the M3), is heavier than the M3, and is slower.

So, WHY did YOU buy a RS4 then? If the M3 is a lardly GT, what the hell is a RS4? Why did you not buy a Carrera?

Haven't you done enough trolling on this forum?
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      08-25-2007, 11:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
I think Porsche will try to hit the 100hp/liter barrier. So 360 and 380 hp.

Buy-buy M3. Why buy a lardy GT with vague steering, based on a dime a dozen pseudo luxury small sedan, with questionable looks, interior 90% similiar to a base 318 BMW (98% if it has an M-Pack)???

A base Carrera is barely more expensive here in Europe and only gives up a little hp/kg (remember it is much lighter then the new M, so the 60hp difference is actually much closer).


Stand back from your post and look what your saying....





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      08-25-2007, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
I think Porsche will try to hit the 100hp/liter barrier. So 360 and 380 hp.

Buy-buy M3. Why buy a lardy GT with vague steering, based on a dime a dozen pseudo luxury small sedan, with questionable looks, interior 90% similiar to a base 318 BMW (98% if it has an M-Pack)???

A base Carrera is barely more expensive here in Europe and only gives up a little hp/kg (remember it is much lighter then the new M, so the 60hp difference is actually much closer).

PAG has already hit and EXCEEDED the 100hp/liter barrier. It is in the form of the X51 option (This is in option form because PAG knows how to extract every penny possible), which yields 381 hp out of the 3.8l and 415 out of the 3.6l GT3. Maybe, you should reconsider your statement.
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      08-25-2007, 12:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
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The E92's price will dictate if that love affair will continue, or if I will run off with my mistress.
You hit the nail on the head, though Porsche's pricing will also be a factor.
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      08-25-2007, 01:03 PM   #16
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This is in option form because PAG knows how to extract every penny possible
Couldn't be truer. If you want PAG to rob you of all your money just order more than one or two options.
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      08-25-2007, 01:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
You hit the nail on the head, though Porsche's pricing will also be a factor.
Porsche's pricing is not likely to increase with the facelift/power bump. If it does it will be very modest. History has shown that PAG does not necessarily increase the MSRP with a facelift/bump.

MY2008 has already had it's 1.5% increase for the Carrera models. Fairly modest by anyone's standards.

For me, if PAG keeps the sticker at current levels and ups the ante to 395-400 HP, I'll be clearly going that route, unless BMW pulls off a miracle and introduces the M3 @ $55,000. I can believe in the tooth fairy, right?
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      08-25-2007, 02:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Porsche's pricing is not likely to increase with the facelift/power bump. If it does it will be very modest. History has shown that PAG does not necessarily increase the MSRP with a facelift/bump.

MY2008 has already had it's 1.5% increase for the Carrera models. Fairly modest by anyone's standards.

For me, if PAG keeps the sticker at current levels and ups the ante to 395-400 HP, I'll be clearly going that route, unless BMW pulls off a miracle and introduces the M3 @ $55,000. I can believe in the tooth fairy, right?
Just curious. If a few thousand dollars in the M3s base price matters to you, then how can you afford a brand new 911 at ~$80+?
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      08-25-2007, 02:21 PM   #19
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Just curious. If a few thousand dollars in the M3s base price matters to you, then how can you afford a brand new 911 at ~$80+?
Good question.

I am strongly considering another turbo or turbo cab, if the 400 hp bump never happens. I am lucky to be able to afford it. I just have to have all of the data available before I move forward.

I do realize why you would think like you do regarding my decisions. They may be unusual, but the reasoning works for me. I feel that the M3 is a great driver's car. One of the major reasons why I decided to consider returning to the M3 was because of it's great price relative to it's performance; with excellent residuals. In my opinion, if the M comes in, well optioned @ $70, it's residuals will be on par with the M5, which are not very good. With the higher price tag comes less user miles; IMO. It does seem that when cars get in that price range they become more mileage sensitive relative to resale. If I am going to suffer from a poor resale and keeping the miles low, I'll do it with another Porsche. Amongst the many great things about the E46, was the fact that you could actually put miles on the car without much concern. I don't think that will be the case with the E92 M and it's certainly not the case with a 911. I have owned three different 997's and know first hand that you have to be careful about the miles.

I do not want to offend anyone here. I do love what the M brings to the table, but price, some real roadtests and a chance to actually touch one, may make my choice much easier.

I am fortunate that I can consider paying cash for any of these cars. But, I have to have all the facts before I jump in again. If, my reasoning doesn't make sense to you, that's ok, it's doesn't have to. I will make the right choice for me when the time comes. These are all great cars. It's great to be a car guy.

Sorry, if I rambled.
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      08-25-2007, 02:27 PM   #20
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And, let's see you are driving a RS4, which costs $66k base here (however you look at it is more expensive than the M3), is heavier than the M3, and is slower.

So, WHY did YOU buy a RS4 then? If the M3 is a lardly GT, what the hell is a RS4? Why did you not buy a Carrera?

Haven't you done enough trolling on this forum?
I already mentioned before, I regret the purchase. It is not worth the money. My car cost 100,000USD. I seriously dislike the RS4, so the new M3 which is better but JUST, will probably be vastly inferior purchase to the Porsche.
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      08-25-2007, 02:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
PAG has already hit and EXCEEDED the 100hp/liter barrier. It is in the form of the X51 option (This is in option form because PAG knows how to extract every penny possible), which yields 381 hp out of the 3.8l and 415 out of the 3.6l GT3. Maybe, you should reconsider your statement.

I meant for the regular models.
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      08-25-2007, 02:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Good question.

I am strongly considering another turbo or turbo cab, if the 400 hp bump never happens. I am lucky to be able to afford it. I just have to have all of the data available before I move forward.

I do realize why you would think like you do regarding my decisions. They may be unusual, but the reasoning works for me. I feel that the M3 is a great driver's car. One of the major reasons why I decided to consider returning to the M3 was because of it's great price relative to it's performance; with excellent residuals. In my opinion, if the M comes in, well optioned @ $70, it's residuals will be on par with the M5, which are not very good. With the higher price tag comes less user miles; IMO. It does seem that when cars get in that price range they become more mileage sensitive relative to resale. If I am going to suffer from a poor resale and keeping the miles low, I'll do it with another Porsche. Amongst the many great things about the E46, was the fact that you could actually put miles on the car without much concern. I don't think that will be the case with the E92 M and it's certainly not the case with a 911. I have owned three different 997's and know first hand that you have to be careful about the miles.

I do not want to offend anyone here. I do love what the M brings to the table, but price, some real roadtests and a chance to actually touch one, may make my choice much easier.

I am fortunate that I can consider paying cash for any of these cars. But, I have to have all the facts before I jump in again. If, my reasoning doesn't make sense to you, that's ok, it's doesn't have to. I will make the right choice for me when the time comes. These are all great cars. It's great to be a car guy.

Sorry, if I rambled.
So your concern is the hit you would take on residuals. Hmmm... Even if the base M3 is priced at $55+, you would take a much bigger hit on 911 residuals, mainly because of what you are pointing out regarding miles and 911s, and the higher initial price of the 911 (it will definetely be higher than the M3). And then there is the return on investment you would be losing on the extra $15-$20k you would be paying for the 911. So, whatever happens with the M3 base price, the 911 will cost you significantly more. Again, I don't get it. But it doesn't matter that I do or not. We have been seeing several posts on this topic recently, and I was just curious...
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