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      06-23-2014, 08:15 PM   #1
jphughan
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PFC 08s @ 5mm -- Ok for CotA?

I'm looking for input from someone with longer-term PFC 08 experience than I have. I just found out I'll be running at CotA this weekend , so I went out to swap my pads. At the track I run PFC 08s in my StopTech ST-60 BBK on the front and keep my StopTech Street Performance pads in the OEM rear calipers full-time; I'm on PSS tires.

PFC 08s for the ST-60 are 18mm thick when new, and my current set after 10 track days is down to 5mm. I know that pad wear rate and fade rate accelerates as the pad gets thinner, but given the wear rate observed thus far and the fact that these are enduro race pads rather than street pads, I'm figuring that 5mm should be enough for at least the first day of CotA. Can anyone who has more experience running 08s comment on this?

I do have a brand new set of 08s ready to go that I will be bringing with me just in case, but given that PFC 08s for the ST-60 caliper are $500 per axle, I don't want to throw these out unnecessarily early.
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      06-23-2014, 08:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
I'm looking for input from someone with longer-term PFC 08 experience than I have. I just found out I'll be running at CotA this weekend , so I went out to swap my pads. At the track I run PFC 08s in my StopTech ST-60 BBK on the front and keep my StopTech Street Performance pads in the OEM rear calipers full-time. PFC 08s for the ST-60 are 18mm thick when new, and my current set after 10 track days is down to 5mm. I know that pad wear rate and fade rate accelerates as the pad gets thinner, but given the wear rate observed thus far and the fact that these are enduro race pads rather than street pads, I'm figuring that 5mm should be enough for at least the first day of CotA. Can anyone who has more experience running 08s comment on this?

.
What kind of lap times do you run and speeds are you hitting entering braking zone to T12? If I were you, I would swap to the new pads as knockback has been an issue for some folks in the esses. Don't throw away the 5mm pads though. Save them and swap back for a different track that is easier on brake pads. I run my RS29's to 3mm before tossing them. Yes, you could change during the middle of the weekend, but why add that headache. Run fresh pads, then put them back in the box after the weekend and go wear out the thinner pads at TWS or something. I did that for my last COTA event. COTA is easy on tires but tough on brakes.

See you there. Not sure what garage we are in, but there will be two 997.2 GT3 and two 997.2 GT3RS in the garage, so hard to miss. Our E92 will also be there. I'll have all the stuff to swap pads if you need help.

Scott
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      06-23-2014, 09:05 PM   #3
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What kind of lap times do you run and speeds are you hitting entering braking zone to T12? If I were you, I would swap to the new pads as knockback has been an issue for some folks in the esses. Don't throw away the 5mm pads though. Save them and swap back for a different track that is easier on brake pads. I run my RS29's to 3mm before tossing them. Yes, you could change during the middle of the weekend, but why add that headache. Run fresh pads, then put them back in the box after the weekend and go wear out the thinner pads at TWS or something. I did that for my last COTA event. COTA is easy on tires but tough on brakes.

See you there. Not sure what garage we are in, but there will be two 997.2 GT3 and two 997.2 GT3RS in the garage, so hard to miss. Our E92 will also be there. I'll have all the stuff to swap pads if you need help.

Scott
I purposely don't time myself, but I ran Yellow Solo at the BMW CCA event in March, and if memory serves I was doing about 145 MPH before braking at 150 meters coming into T12 -- though perhaps because it was my first time at CotA or perhaps out of self-preservation instinct, I trailed the throttle a little bit toward the end of the straight before the braking zone.

I really like your idea of keeping my current set for a TWS event since I'm planning to be there in September anyway. My only issue at the moment is that I don't have a real caliper piston spreader, and retracting 3 pistons with a brake pad or by hand takes some doing even when I'm just trying to go between my street and race pads, never mind trying to get a brand new set in without nicking a piston. But I'll actually be working the tech garage that weekend in addition to driving, so I'll definitely have access to a spreader at that time. Maybe I'll pull the swap early that morning or worst case during lunch. Thanks!
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      06-23-2014, 09:23 PM   #4
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i will be there at 5-6pm or so Friday. I drive a blue ram 2500 4x4 diesel with a gooseneck car hauler. find me when I show up and you can borrow my spreader. just ask Karen what garage I am in. I have one of the big spreaders that I keep in the trailer tool box.

150 feet or 150 meters? those markers are in feet. if you are coming in at 145 on the speedo and waiting to the 150 mark, swap pads. you'll need them. I was 155 in the GT3 and waiting until 125 feet and was pushing my brakes harder than the tires would hook up.
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      06-23-2014, 09:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
i will be there at 5-6pm or so Friday. I drive a blue ram 2500 4x4 diesel with a gooseneck car hauler. find me when I show up and you can borrow my spreader. just ask Karen what garage I am in. I have one of the big spreaders that I keep in the trailer tool box.

150 feet or 150 meters? those markers are in feet. if you are coming in at 145 on the speedo and waiting to the 150 mark, swap pads. you'll need them. I was 155 in the GT3 and waiting until 125 feet and was pushing my brakes harder than the tires would hook up.
The markers are in FEET? Are you certain? It looked like a lot more than 50 feet between the markers even while traveling at track speeds, so I figured they had to be meters -- that plus the fact that CotA hosts a lot of international race teams and much of the rest of the world is on the metric system. I also have a tough time believing that my car can go from 145 to about 50 in 150 feet. Some quick Googling indicates that GT-Rs on race pads recorded by VBoxes take ~700 feet to do 150-0, and since even on stock pads the 60-0 portion only takes 98 feet of that, I don't see how I could do 150-50 in about a quarter of that distance. Anyway, I brake at the 150 marker. I could probably go a bit deeper, but again, first time at the track I was playing it a bit safe.

I'm not sure whether I'll be able to get out there on Friday evening yet, but I'll be there on Saturday by 6:30 AM, so I'll keep an eye out for a garage full of GT3s or ask Karen where to find Scott, and one way or another I'll get those new pads swapped in. Thanks again!

UPDATE: Played with Google Earth measurement tools on the CotA satellite photos. The markers are definitely in meters.
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      06-23-2014, 09:56 PM   #6
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Knock back is really bad there. That and heavy braking zones. Replace them.
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      06-23-2014, 10:36 PM   #7
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I just thought it was feet. Regardless of the units, if you are going that fast into T12 and braking that late, you want fresh pads. You are giving them a workout. I am braking a little later and going a little faster, but my pads are huge and car a lot lighter. See you at the track.
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      06-23-2014, 11:04 PM   #8
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5mm thick pads will cause other issues like boiling your brake fluid and cooking your piston seals...possibly setting them on fire. If you have titanium shims then you are significantly less susceptible to that stuff happening but the pads will still overheat and wear much faster.

I ran 3mm-4mm pads at COTA. I just gave the brake a light press after I went over a rough curb. Didn't have an issue with the ST40s.

But I'd just get fresh pads.
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      06-23-2014, 11:19 PM   #9
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^
This

Thin pads run very hot and can leave pad deposits on the rotors. I wouldn't let thin pads cloud my head at COTA. Not worth it.
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      06-24-2014, 07:48 AM   #10
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Thanks everyone! I had forgotten about the increased knockback factor of thin pads, and since I have indeed already noticed that at CotA, I don't want to make it worse. Keeping my current pads for a track that's lighter on brakes is the obvious solution since it allows me to maximize value while still maximizing performance at CotA, so that's what I'll be doing.
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      06-24-2014, 06:41 PM   #11
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That's why I wish I had the ST40 setup. You could just rotate the pads to the rear axle.
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      06-24-2014, 06:52 PM   #12
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That's why I wish I had the ST40 setup. You could just rotate the pads to the rear axle.
Only if you also sprang for a rear BBK, which I didn't.
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