BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-05-2013, 11:58 PM   #1
dustman
Private
dustman's Avatar
0
Rep
97
Posts

 
Drives: '13 Ferrari 458 Italia
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

M3 vs GTR, GT3RS 4.0, 550ia, 458 Italia, etc

Track day today in so cal, above cars were all new models except my '11 M3 sedan comp pkg, dct, stock, 25k miles and 10k on PSS tires, never been to this track before.

The stock m3 is an incredible car if you trust it, can drive decently, and are aggressive. Turned in the fastest lap in the midday segment, and top 4 car of the day out of 25 cars (in addition to above, vettes, other non comp pack m3, m3 cab, 335, camaros, etc).
The faster cars were a custom built mustang Shelby gt500 supercharged, suspension etc, in an original 1967 car, the 458, and the Porsche gt3rs 4.0.

I am by no means a good driver, my 3rd track day ever. A middle aged dude now but with video game reflexes.

Stock m3 kept up with the gt3 quite well even on the straights at 130 mph, the gt3 wasn't pulling away. Surprised me.
The GTR ( I owned a '09 model, this one was a '12 black edition) would get on gas early and start pulling like a train away, and then the m3 would hold pace. In turns the m3 would catch up and I would have to hold back. Down the straight it was very close....surprising again.
New 335ia with nice 20" grippy tires was no match.

What I didn't like about the m3: even with comp package seats, you fall out and around them far too much, headroom with helmet is non existent for a 6'1" driver, too much lean in corners (overall the weight of the m3 can really be felt), paddle shifters should be taller ala Scuderia and 458, but that's it. Weight is the biggest issue, and the seats next. Nitpicking there.

What's to love: dct exceptional on track, m settings to fullest including traction in highest race mode never interfered or kicked in, the car was very stable and composed....you would have to be a maniac to screwup, brakes worked fine for 8-10 lap segments at a time, aim for an apex and hit it steering.

If it weren't my dd I would improve the suspension, get far more dedicated tires, and add another 40+ hp to improve the straights performance.

Sorry for any typos, damn tired.

Obv better drivers and different outcomes above. But this was today, with hot cars and some good drivers.

Best, D
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 06:31 AM   #2
hakaida442
First Lieutenant
hakaida442's Avatar
3
Rep
371
Posts

 
Drives: 11 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (0)

The RS 4.0 driver must be a terrible driver or just unwilling to push that thing to even 8/10ths if you're keeping up with him. That car should leave your car and many other cars for dead on the track. It's usually the ferrari guys that drive their cars slower than they should at track days.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 07:45 AM   #3
dead ringer
09 M3 E90
dead ringer's Avatar
United_States
2
Rep
167
Posts

 
Drives: 09 M3 E90 - DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

sounds like you had a great time, nice write up! Were you on w/ stock brakes? Any videos you can post?
__________________
E90///M3 : ESS ECU & Shift tune w/ full ESS exhaust | KW V3's | LUX AE | 19" TE37's | Mode Carbon V1 lip | JB's CF trunk spoiler PARTING OUT EVERYTHING, SEE RESPECTIVE PARTS UNDER PARTS SECTIONS
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 09:30 AM   #4
GOLFFRR
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
GOLFFRR's Avatar
269
Rep
17,311
Posts


 
Drives: Golf Cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Solvang, CA/Camarillo, CA

iTrader: (4)

what a great day! good to see you are enjoying your car!
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL US FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Need a quote or assistance from David? GO HERE-->bmwdavid@icloud.com or 202-262-2900
David's ED special ALL M cars-->http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1042739
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 09:42 AM   #5
M3 Esq
Lieutenant Colonel
M3 Esq's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
1,964
Posts

 
Drives: M3, 335i, X5
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Nice write up. I believe the coupe with the CF roof has a bit more headroom than the sedan (I'm 6"1' as well and I have a good amount of headroom with a decent sized Simpson helmet). Also, the base seats with cloth inserts provide a bit more grip in the turns.

Glad you went out and enjoyed it. The M3 is a blast to drive on the track.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 09:52 AM   #6
Donbona
Lieutenant Colonel
Donbona's Avatar
United Kingdom
40
Rep
1,668
Posts

 
Drives: E93 M3 DCT 2008
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London UK

iTrader: (0)

Sounds like you had an awsome day..... with regards to the paddle shifters I urge you to buy the verstrase extended shifters... they are excellent.
__________________
M3 E93 DCT, Space Grey,BC HB29 Forged Deep Concave Wheels, Ericsson Amuse F/R Bumper, Evolve Full Exhaust System, INTRAX Coilovers, STOPTECH BBK, Performance Steering Wheel,Custom Red/Black Leather Seats,///M3 ||Bimmerpost M3 Car Of The Month May - 2010SOLD
2010 R35 GTR
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 10:09 AM   #7
dustman
Private
dustman's Avatar
0
Rep
97
Posts

 
Drives: '13 Ferrari 458 Italia
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate the comments and recommendations.
I can tell you the gt3 was pushed very very hard, best driver at the event. That car was faster and handled better no question. But it didn't crush the M.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #8
UnaBomber
Second Lieutenant
UnaBomber's Avatar
2
Rep
241
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 X5, 2010 GTR
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bluffton, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman View Post
That car was faster and handled better no question. But it didn't crush the M.
this is comical. i got embarassed by a 4.0 in my built road race GTR

and lol at an m3 keeping up with a stock 2012 GTR on the straights
__________________
2010 Nissan GTR,TopSpeed Motorsports 4 Liter Alpha12
Motec, JRZs, HREs, Alcon SuperKit, Carbon Errything,etc
9.01@164 - 1357whp 1040tq Road Race Prepped Monster
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #9
dustman
Private
dustman's Avatar
0
Rep
97
Posts

 
Drives: '13 Ferrari 458 Italia
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

Just reporting the facts from the day. No agenda here, thanks for your positivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnaBomber View Post
this is comical. i got embarassed by a 4.0 in my built road race GTR

and lol at an m3 keeping up with a stock 2012 GTR on the straights
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 10:57 AM   #10
UnaBomber
Second Lieutenant
UnaBomber's Avatar
2
Rep
241
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 X5, 2010 GTR
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bluffton, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman View Post
Just reporting the facts from the day. No agenda here, thanks for your positivity.
just loling at the nonsense
__________________
2010 Nissan GTR,TopSpeed Motorsports 4 Liter Alpha12
Motec, JRZs, HREs, Alcon SuperKit, Carbon Errything,etc
9.01@164 - 1357whp 1040tq Road Race Prepped Monster
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 11:18 AM   #11
smmmurf
Colonel
32
Rep
2,113
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (7)

I had the opportunity to drive a GT3RS 3.8 (2011) on the track and found it much more difficult to drive than my E90 M3, E46 M3, S2K, or Spec Miata. The gearbox is tough to work without actually owning the car and using it on a daily basis. The brakes are incredible and the grip is great. However, it does require some seat time to get used to.

I have a few hundred trackdays and have set pole/won races. I was unprepared to drive the GT3 beyond 7/10ths. In 12 laps I got within ~8 seconds of where the car could be on Thunderhill driven all out. I would need more time to get used to it. The RS 4.0 owner may be just new to the car. Comparatively, in 2 sessions, I was within 2 seconds of Randy Pobst's time at Laguna Seca in my 100% stock E90 M3 (tires & pads stock, too).

I's just a harder car to drive with higher limits and a balance that isn't as intuitive. Once mastered, I'm sure it's incredibly rewarding because it was even a blast to putt putt around in 4th gear all the way around the track because we were still pulling laps faster than anything I have ever driven before that.
__________________
M3 Sedan - AW/Black - 6MT - no moonroof - no folding seats - RAC RG63 - clear bra by Omega Werks
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 11:24 AM   #12
UnaBomber
Second Lieutenant
UnaBomber's Avatar
2
Rep
241
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 X5, 2010 GTR
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bluffton, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
I had the opportunity to drive a GT3RS 3.8 (2011) on the track and found it much more difficult to drive than my E90 M3, E46 M3, S2K, or Spec Miata. The gearbox is tough to work without actually owning the car and using it on a daily basis. The brakes are incredible and the grip is great. However, it does require some seat time to get used to.

I have a few hundred trackdays and have set pole/won races. I was unprepared to drive the GT3 beyond 7/10ths. In 12 laps I got within ~8 seconds of where the car could be on Thunderhill driven all out. I would need more time to get used to it. The RS 4.0 owner may be just new to the car. Comparatively, in 2 sessions, I was within 2 seconds of Randy Pobst's time at Laguna Seca in my 100% stock E90 M3 (tires & pads stock, too).

I's just a harder car to drive with higher limits and a balance that isn't as intuitive. Once mastered, I'm sure it's incredibly rewarding because it was even a blast to putt putt around in 4th gear all the way around the track because we were still pulling laps faster than anything I have ever driven before that.
i had the opportunity for a ride along with Leh Keen in his personal gt3rs at VIR last year and it was by far the most eye opening experience i have ever had. I could not believe what that car could do in the hands of a very capable driver. He literally scared the shit out of me
__________________
2010 Nissan GTR,TopSpeed Motorsports 4 Liter Alpha12
Motec, JRZs, HREs, Alcon SuperKit, Carbon Errything,etc
9.01@164 - 1357whp 1040tq Road Race Prepped Monster
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 11:31 AM   #13
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts


 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Pics or it didn't happen!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 01:37 PM   #14
smmmurf
Colonel
32
Rep
2,113
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnaBomber View Post
i had the opportunity for a ride along with Leh Keen in his personal gt3rs at VIR last year and it was by far the most eye opening experience i have ever had. I could not believe what that car could do in the hands of a very capable driver. He literally scared the shit out of me
Yes, it is an amazing car. While I can race with pro level drivers in Spec Miatas, the GT3RS is a challenge on a completely different level. The limits are so much higher and the balance rewards a smooth, confident driver. They are more difficult to drive but incredible once mastered, as you experienced.

I would love to have a similar experience at some point, and someday I will master it myself. For now, I'm going to mess around with the Subaru BRZ and new Cayman.
__________________
M3 Sedan - AW/Black - 6MT - no moonroof - no folding seats - RAC RG63 - clear bra by Omega Werks

Last edited by smmmurf; 02-06-2013 at 01:47 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 02:29 PM   #15
hakaida442
First Lieutenant
hakaida442's Avatar
3
Rep
371
Posts

 
Drives: 11 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (0)

Slow in, fast out. It took me awhile to get used to it as well. I'm still trying to get it down to where I don't have to think about it and having it be instinctive.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 02:40 PM   #16
m3sparky
First Lieutenant
m3sparky's Avatar
7
Rep
320
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 gtr be
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: roseville ca

iTrader: (2)

you cant compare your stock m3 to any of the cars mentioned. every single one off them is faster in a straight line and on a road course. i had the last two model m3s and now am lucky to own a 2013 gtr BE. i can spank, f430s, 505hp vipers, z06s when it was stock , now that im running 700 hp itsa bit different. if everyone was a pro at the track and driving their car to the limits its a diff story but , some people are out there warming up or getting used to their cars, or just having a great time . not going balls out trying to beat everybody. jmo
__________________
2013 GTR BE - pearl white, enough mods to beat majority
2008 bmw m3 sedan R.I.P

Last edited by m3sparky; 02-06-2013 at 08:08 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 04:39 PM   #17
AhsanU
Private
0
Rep
88
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Sorry, not believing it.

There's absolutely no way a stock M3 can even remotely keep up with a 2012 GT-R on the straights, absolutely none. Keeping up with it on the bends is one thing (driver could be inexperienced) but mashing the throttle on the straights is another.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 07:54 PM   #18
Sakred
Private
Sakred's Avatar
0
Rep
69
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 GTR Black Edition
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The City of Angels

iTrader: (0)

What track did you go to and what time did you run?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 08:07 PM   #19
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,646
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

Stock GT-R perhaps there's a chance. An M3 will do 0-120 in about 10.5 seconds, GT-R is somewhere at 10 sec. flat or tad below. So if the GT-R driver was a little late on the throttle, the M3 could keep up with the half second delay. Barely keep up mind you, but definitely hang in there. The M would not be left in the dust per se.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 08:13 PM   #20
m3sparky
First Lieutenant
m3sparky's Avatar
7
Rep
320
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 gtr be
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: roseville ca

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC5 View Post
Stock GT-R perhaps there's a chance. An M3 will do 0-120 in about 10.5 seconds, GT-R is somewhere at 10 sec. flat or tad below. So if the GT-R driver was a little late on the throttle, the M3 could keep up with the half second delay. Barely keep up mind you, but definitely hang in there.


false info...

stock m3 0–1320 ft ( mile) n 12.5 @ 114.8 mph

stock 2012 gtr - 11.0 sec @ 125.5 mph

i went to the track last weekend, and was doing 10.6 @ 133 mph with very bad laucnhes.




NURBERGING LAP TIMES - STOCK CARS

2013 NISSAN GTR - 7:19.18 Nissan GT-R (2013) Toshio Suzuki 14 May 2012 Nissan conducted test with standard Dunlop run-flat tires. Video confirmed. Nissan GT-R 2013 Official Video (11/2012).[13]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) Jim Mero 9 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[14] base specification car with optional super-slick track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure).[15]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:22.1 Dodge Viper ACR (2009) Tom Coronel 18 August 2008 Chrysler and Motor Trend conducted test.[16]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:22.68 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012) Jim Mero 23 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[17] base specification car with optional super-slick track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure) and Z07 package
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (11/2010)[18]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24.22 Nissan GT-R (2011) Toshio Suzuki 1 October 2010 Nissan conducted test.[19] Semi-wet conditions. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (12/2010).[20]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24.3 Maserati MC12 Marc Basseng August 2008 Evo Magazine conducted test
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24.44 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport
LOWER
LOWER
LOWER
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:48 BMW M3 GTS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto[49]

8:05 BMW M3 E92 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (12/2007)[61]
__________________
2013 GTR BE - pearl white, enough mods to beat majority
2008 bmw m3 sedan R.I.P

Last edited by m3sparky; 02-06-2013 at 08:23 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 08:18 PM   #21
konaforever
Second Lieutenant
United_States
2
Rep
234
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Red GTR
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC5 View Post
Stock GT-R perhaps there's a chance. An M3 will do 0-120 in about 10.5 seconds, GT-R is somewhere at 10 sec. flat or tad below. So if the GT-R driver was a little late on the throttle, the M3 could keep up with the half second delay. Barely keep up mind you, but definitely hang in there. The M would not be left in the dust per se.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-m3-jan-12.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...issan-gt-r.pdf

M3 - 13.9 seconds - 0-120 mph
2013 GTR - 10.4 - 0-120 mph
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2013, 08:21 PM   #22
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,646
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3sparky View Post
false info...

stock m3 0–1320 ft ( mile) n 12.5 @ 114.8 mph

stock 2012 gtr - 11.0 sec @ 125.5 mph

i went to the track last weekend, and was doing 10.6 @ 133 mph with very bad laucnhes.
Not necessarily, I might have been off on the 120 time, but the quarter mile times you posted support my theory. In fact, GT-R times to 1/4 mile are about 11.2 last I saw from C/D. If the GT-R driver is just off the throttle for second delay, the M3 will have a moment to keep up and not let the GT-R leave him in the dust by several car lengths. That's the point I was trying to communicate. That's what the OP was surprised about and that is somewhat believable.

2012 GT-R C/D results
Name:  Screen shot 2013-02-06 at 8.00.24 PM.png
Views: 585
Size:  14.5 KB

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-amg-jan12.pdf

And keep in mind when you read the M3 numbers, that's a 6MT car so a DCT could be a tad quicker if done right.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |

Last edited by SROC5; 02-06-2013 at 08:26 PM.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST