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      09-11-2013, 03:59 PM   #1
Redline2894
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Quick question regarding DCT M3's.

Hi everyone!
Thinking about getting an M3 soon and wondering how "in control" are you when using DCT?
Also, what do you guys think about the torque levels on an M3, too little or just perfect?

I understand their fun cars, because I have a friend who currently drives a 911 carrera and an Audi RS5 but says he'll take the M3 back any day of the week.
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      09-11-2013, 04:20 PM   #2
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Try one, you are not really in control, it is like driving an automatic where you always have to use the sport mode That said the DCT feel is NOTHING like the above, you do get the feeling of driving race car ) I've only test drove the DCT M3 and drove my friends DCT M5 on a numerous occasions and the shift feel alone brings a smile to my face every time I press that paddle shifter AND it is faster and afterall I still picked a manual.
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      09-11-2013, 05:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N1tr0gen View Post
Try one, you are not really in control, it is like driving an automatic where you always have to use the sport mode That said the DCT feel is NOTHING like the above, you do get the feeling of driving race car ) I've only test drove the DCT M3 and drove my friends DCT M5 on a numerous occasions and the shift feel alone brings a smile to my face every time I press that paddle shifter AND it is faster and afterall I still picked a manual.
Not sure what you mean by this. DCT has 2 modes, one manual and one automatic. Obviously the automatic mode behaves somewhat like a traditional automatic transmission. In manual mode however, the driver must shift to select a higher or lower gear. The transmission will only shift to protect itself from a stall situation and even will not upshift when bouncing off of the rev limiter.

Torque level is fantastic, the S65 has a flat torque plateau and the gearing is suited well for the car.
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      09-11-2013, 06:25 PM   #4
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DCT is Awesome, i dont ever want a MT, But if you have a MT M3 you know its bad to the bone also.
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      09-11-2013, 06:50 PM   #5
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Depends on what you plan on doing with your M3.

For me I absolutely love my DCT at the Track. I am able to concentrate on my line and finesse. I am a better Driver because of it but truth be told I suck at heel and toe shifting.

Therefore DCT for me!
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      09-11-2013, 06:55 PM   #6
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thanks for all the responses, i appreciate em all.

I've driven an SMG E60 M5 at my uncles car dealership but never the DCT M3's cause he's only sold two manual ones.

I guess the closest thing ive ever driven was an Audi S4 was was pretty damn fun and always put a smile on my face.

Thanks again everyone!
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      09-11-2013, 06:55 PM   #7
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Nothing else than DCT for me,and even more amazing with the BPM software upgrade
DCT can shift in 3 different ways...and in 6 different shift speeds 1-6 .(6 is with traction control off)
1- paddle shifters + & -
2- D mode
3- shifts with DCT stick + & -
BTW...think this will turn out in a DCT vs MT thread....once again
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      09-11-2013, 06:55 PM   #8
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DCT is great but a different feel than a manual. I always drive mine in manual mode, but my wife can bang into drive if need be, I do not miss a stick.

Torque is a minor issue, just have to remember to rev up, and if you do it is a killer.
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      09-11-2013, 07:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Nothing else than DCT for me,and even more amazing with the BPM software upgrade
DCT can shift in 3 different ways...and in 6 different shift speeds 1-6 .(6 is with traction control off)
1- paddle shifters + & -
2- D mode
3- shifts with DCT stick + & -
BTW...think this will turn out in a DCT vs MT thread....once again
Here it is.......
thanks, the more replies the better reading am all!, i hope you guys know im not trying to make an argument over MT vs DCT here, its opinion and hopefully everyone knows that already lol.
Anyway, would you mind telling me more about the BPM software upgrade? never heard of it. Thanks ahead of time!
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      09-11-2013, 08:25 PM   #10
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After several years of reading about the DCT/Manual/Etc, I am still lost about the comments of "being in control"......, with a manual. With either a DCT or manual, you choose what gear to be in and when to shift. Is there something else about a transmission I am missing???? I prefer the DCT, I was always lousy about heel/toeing anyway, but that is what it is...., a preference. Indisputably, the DCT is faster and more reliable. Nearly every race series uses them, there is a reason for this.
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      09-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #11
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Driven near the limits, DCT is awesome and torque is a non issue. Torque is so linear and constant with instant DCT shifts.

Putting around town DCT can be boring and the engine lacks torque at low RPMs.
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      09-11-2013, 09:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalm3lover View Post
After several years of reading about the DCT/Manual/Etc, I am still lost about the comments of "being in control"......, with a manual. With either a DCT or manual, you choose what gear to be in and when to shift. Is there something else about a transmission I am missing???? I prefer the DCT, I was always lousy about heel/toeing anyway, but that is what it is...., a preference. Indisputably, the DCT is faster and more reliable. Nearly every race series uses them, there is a reason for this.
maybe i should of been more specific.
by more "in control" i dont simply mean i choose the gears, i mean, can i up shift WHENEVER i want? ive driven an Audi S4 and A4 and sometimes it just wont upshift till you do it a couple of times.... thats what im trying to get at here... when i click upshift, will it instantly upshift? or is it gonna lag it a bit. From what i understand BMW has one of the bests dual clutch transmissions out there. Just trying to get a drivers point of view out, since thats the one that matters to me. I've seen videos of people doing ridiculous(and i mean....ridiculous) downshifts, which tells me you have a LOT of control, as some cars, like the S4 wont let you downshift from 2nd to 1st till the rpm is somewhat low.
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      09-11-2013, 10:28 PM   #13
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DCT shifting is quick. There are also multiple modes that will increase the speed and intensity of the shifts. Very awesome!!!
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      09-12-2013, 12:08 AM   #14
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No you're not fully in-control with DCT, even in S mode, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

- DCT won't let you $-down-shift into a gear that would damage the transmission/engine
- Downshift plus WOT automatically downshifts you to the lowest safe gear
- DCT will downshift automatically before you lug the engine
- DCT will downshift for you when you make a 90 turn (I don't know if this is based on selected shift program + engine speed or the vehicle sensing a 90-degree turn, but I will say that sometimes it puts me in 3rd, when I'd rather be in 2nd)
- Automatically downshifts to first at a full-stop; however a California-stop can often leave you in 2nd and somewhat under-torqued if you're not paying attention


On the upshifts you'll bounce off the rev-limiter; and lose power - but no automatic upshift
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      09-12-2013, 12:15 AM   #15
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There are 6 shift speeds you can select in manual mode (S1-6). S5 and S6 are brutal fast and kick with each shift. Both upshifts and downshifts are fast although if you go 2 gears, it does take longer. Each clutch is in charge of every other gear so if you shift 4 to 2 that clutch goes to both gears and isn't as fast. If you shift 4 to 3 it's instant. If you floor the gas and click the downshift paddle, it will jump to the lowest gear available before redline.

The M DCT is faster than the S4 DSG and does whatever you tell it to except shift down above redline (that's a good thing). If you liked the S4 you'll love the M3 with DCT.
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      09-12-2013, 12:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
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There are 6 shift speeds you can select in manual mode (S1-6). S5 and S6 are brutal fast and kick with each shift. Both upshifts and downshifts are fast although if you go 2 gears, it does take longer. Each clutch is in charge of every other gear so if you shift 4 to 2 that clutch goes to both gears and isn't as fast. If you shift 4 to 3 it's instant. If you floor the gas and click the downshift paddle, it will jump to the lowest gear available before redline.

The M DCT is faster than the S4 DSG and does whatever you tell it to except shift down above redline (that's a good thing). If you liked the S4 you'll love the M3 with DCT.
haha thanks, i was having a blast with the S4... every upshift in the S4 makes like a pop in exhaust (apparently something to do with a drop of petrol in the exhaust on every upshift, dont know for sure, didnt read much).
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      09-12-2013, 12:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD-E93-11 View Post
No you're not fully in-control with DCT, even in S mode, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

- DCT won't let you $-down-shift into a gear that would damage the transmission/engine
- Downshift plus WOT automatically downshifts you to the lowest safe gear
- DCT will downshift automatically before you lug the engine
- DCT will downshift for you when you make a 90 turn (I don't know if this is based on selected shift program + engine speed or the vehicle sensing a 90-degree turn, but I will say that sometimes it puts me in 3rd, when I'd rather be in 2nd)
- Automatically downshifts to first at a full-stop; however a California-stop can often leave you in 2nd and somewhat under-torqued if you're not paying attention


On the upshifts you'll bounce off the rev-limiter; and lose power - but no automatic upshift
thanks! appreciate all these comments!
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      09-12-2013, 01:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS
Depends on what you plan on doing with your M3.

For me I absolutely love my DCT at the Track. I am able to concentrate on my line and finesse. I am a better Driver because of it but truth be told I suck at heel and toe shifting.

Therefore DCT for me!
Haha. Honest at least! I sucked too so i got the extended gas pedal. But not i feel i dont need it. But still safer to have more of my foot on the brake and still be able to blip.

DCT is great on my gfs 135 when i drive it. Can only imagine mDCT is that much better.

I dont understand the torque questioning. Yes if you are in 4th gear at 2000rpm and floor it you wont feel much but i just got back from a drive and torque is there when i want it in the right gear.
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      09-12-2013, 01:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Haha. Honest at least! I sucked too so i got the extended gas pedal. But not i feel i dont need it. But still safer to have more of my foot on the brake and still be able to blip.

DCT is great on my gfs 135 when i drive it. Can only imagine mDCT is that much better.

I dont understand the torque questioning. Yes if you are in 4th gear at 2000rpm and floor it you wont feel much but i just got back from a drive and torque is there when i want it in the right gear.
only reason i was asking about torque was cause the car i drive right now has almost 400 lb feet, and i love it lol. so was just wondering
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      09-12-2013, 02:25 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Haha. Honest at least! I sucked too so i got the extended gas pedal. But not i feel i dont need it. But still safer to have more of my foot on the brake and still be able to blip.

DCT is great on my gfs 135 when i drive it. Can only imagine mDCT is that much better.

I dont understand the torque questioning. Yes if you are in 4th gear at 2000rpm and floor it you wont feel much but i just got back from a drive and torque is there when i want it in the right gear.
only reason i was asking about torque was cause the car i drive right now has almost 400 lb feet, and i love it lol. so was just wondering
Ive had 450/411 to all four wheels before. Of course its not gonna be that much but its characteristic is more s2k or 458 high revving constant pull all the way to redline. With a tune the lower end torque goes away some. But it has no problem lighting up the tires whenever you want.
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      09-12-2013, 02:49 AM   #21
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Like everybody is saying DCT is great. It does everything well as explained in posts above. Only issue is operations at low speeds. Things I really dislike about it are the following:

* it is starting with to high revs (around 1200-1300). The car could easily start i.e. release clutch at 900-1000. Situation looks worse when car is cold. Revs are even higher.

* When you are driving slowly in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear and you are off and on gas pedal (example of driving in a jam) system engages clutch every time you step off the gas pedal and then engages it back when you press gas slightly at around 1100 revs. This is annoying and system should keep clutch engaged until revs drop under 800... and then just downshift. In this situation best is to keep gas press slightly all the time as this prevents clutch engagement- for this I would love if cruise control would work from (let's say) 10 km/h -
DOES ANYBODY KNOW IS THIS SOMETHING FEATURE CODING CAN FIX???

* fast starts from stand still - it is very difficult to have a fast start exactly when you want/need. If you press gas pedal quickly/fully car will first build up the revs and only after cca 1 sec it will dump the clutch. I suppose you can test with pressing the pedal gently and not to 100% to get faster response, but I was not able to find the right balance yet.
ANY SUGGESTIONS OF LONG TIME DCT DRIVERS ARE WELCOME.
Of course you have launch control but this is not really usable for every day driving and those moments when you suddenly see someone besides you at the lights that you want to smoke.

* not having the clutch pedal to engage for Ebrake usage or drift initiation (clutch dump).

* another thing that is a big difference to MT: in MT every time you start or shift gears you just do it like you want for each single operation -> aggressive, fast, slow... In DCT you need to switch settings with button to get selected "mode" of operation which is then active until you change it -> if you want to have aggressive shifts from 1st to 3rd and then smooth shift latter, you need to constantly change settings...

All being said DCTstill beats MT by a log way. It is just great for spirited driving and the auto mode is great for city/heavy traffic driving.
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      09-12-2013, 05:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline2894 View Post
thanks, the more replies the better reading am all!, i hope you guys know im not trying to make an argument over MT vs DCT here, its opinion and hopefully everyone knows that already lol.
Anyway, would you mind telling me more about the BPM software upgrade? never heard of it. Thanks ahead of time!
You have PM...............
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