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      09-21-2015, 11:44 AM   #1
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Help with overheating in Texas - problem solved!

I'm at a loss to understand my overheating problems - suggestions? After a few laps, I'm getting the yellow high temp warning light, then RPMs reduced by 1k, then the red high temp warning light. This even occurs during the first session of the day when outside temps are in the 70s. I measured the coolant temp at over 235 with the yellow light and likely over 240 with the red light. I'm at a loss to explain this as I have several other track buddies with e9x that are not running this hot. I have a naturally aspirated 6MT.

I've tried the following with zero improvement:

1) flushed the radiator
2) decreased percentage of coolant and added water-wetter
3) replaced the thermostat
4) flashed back to stock 240e tune
5) installed the Alekshop oil cooler

Hypotheses:

1) Could this be an issue with the water pump?
2) Use lighter oil? I'm running TWS 10w-60. Several reputable sources have recommended going to 15w-50 as it dissipates heat more efficiently. I can't imagine that this would make the impact that I'm looking for.
3) Go with after-market radiator? Will this really reduce temps?
4) Any other comments or suggestions?

Thanks!

Edit: See page four for updates - CSF radiator did the trick!
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Last edited by dbyrd; 11-09-2015 at 12:09 PM. Reason: updated info
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      09-21-2015, 12:04 PM   #2
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How many miles does your car have? I run into similar issues in Colorado. My car has 80k on it and I attribute some of my issues to high altitude.

However, my radiator, oil cooler, and trans cooler have a lot of bent fins because of the mileage, which I believe is leading to the overheating.

Do you still have all the ducting and undertrays intact?

Also, many of the people that say they have no problems are not driving 10/10ths. How close are the lap times to others that have no issues?

Last edited by Melchior; 09-21-2015 at 12:13 PM.
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      09-21-2015, 12:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melchior View Post
How many miles does your car have? I run into similar issues in Colorado. My car has 80k on it and I attribute some of my issues to high altitude.

However, my radiator, oil cooler, and trans cooler have a lot of bent fins because of the mileage, which I believe is leading to the overheating.

Also, many of the people that say they have no problems are not driving 10/10ths. How close are the lap times to others that have no issues?
Car has almost 120,000 miles, but this long-block has 37,000 miles on it. I religiously run below 3,500 RPM prior to warm-up. I thought the same thing when I replaced the oil cooler, but the situation has not improved. I'm leaning toward trying the CSF radiator, but I don't want to throw money at it if it's not going to help.

The other folks (fastest is a woman ) that I run with are as fast if not faster than me - several with DCT which seems to be more problematic in this area.

I appreciate your feedback!
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      09-21-2015, 04:07 PM   #4
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I'd replace your radiator and/or condenser with a new oem. The old ones is most likely clogged up with debris, and air isn't getting through them as well. I'd only trust the oem manufacturer when it comes to radiator build quality.
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      09-21-2015, 09:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012
I'd replace your radiator and/or condenser with a new oem. The old ones is most likely clogged up with debris, and air isn't getting through them as well. I'd only trust the oem manufacturer when it comes to radiator build quality.
When I had the oil cooler installed, my shop cleaned and inspected the radiator - they said it looked fine. Thanks for the suggestions.
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      09-21-2015, 09:34 PM   #6
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Water pump came to mind as I read your list of what you'd already done. 137K miles is definitely a little long for a BMW water pump, so considering all the other things you've done, that's what I'd do. I'd probably have done it while you were in there replacing the thermostat anyway. Bent cooler fins and broken ducting would also be worth checking too, as mentioned above. But I definitely wouldn't run 15W-anything oil in this car....
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      09-21-2015, 10:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Water pump came to mind as I read your list of what you'd already done. 137K miles is definitely a little long for a BMW water pump, so considering all the other things you've done, that's what I'd do. I'd probably have done it while you were in there replacing the thermostat anyway. Bent cooler fins and broken ducting would also be worth checking too, as mentioned above. But I definitely wouldn't run 15W-anything oil in this car....
To clarify, this engine only has 37,000 miles on it. I assume BMW included a new water cooler when they replaced the long block, right?

No 15w-50, huh?

Thanks - I'm sure we've run together at COTA or TWS.
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      09-21-2015, 10:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrd
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Water pump came to mind as I read your list of what you'd already done. 137K miles is definitely a little long for a BMW water pump, so considering all the other things you've done, that's what I'd do. I'd probably have done it while you were in there replacing the thermostat anyway. Bent cooler fins and broken ducting would also be worth checking too, as mentioned above. But I definitely wouldn't run 15W-anything oil in this car....
To clarify, this engine only has 37,000 miles on it. I assume BMW included a new water cooler when they replaced the long block, right?

No 15w-50, huh?

Thanks - I'm sure we've run together at COTA or TWS.
Not sure whether water pump would have been replaced, sorry!

I'm not prone to overreacting on the bearing scare, but I certainly wouldn't want to run anything that's thicker gene cold than what BMW recommends.
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      09-21-2015, 10:29 PM   #9
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Replace the coolant temperature sensor.
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      09-21-2015, 11:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melchior View Post
How many miles does your car have? I run into similar issues in Colorado. My car has 80k on it and I attribute some of my issues to high altitude.

However, my radiator, oil cooler, and trans cooler have a lot of bent fins because of the mileage, which I believe is leading to the overheating.

Also, many of the people that say they have no problems are not driving 10/10ths. How close are the lap times to others that have no issues?
Car has almost 120,000 miles, but this long-block has 37,000 miles on it. I religiously run below 3,500 RPM prior to warm-up. I thought the same thing when I replaced the oil cooler, but the situation has not improved. I'm leaning toward trying the CSF radiator, but I don't want to throw money at it if it's not going to help.

The other folks (fastest is a woman ) that I run with are as fast if not faster than me - several with DCT which seems to be more problematic in this area.

I appreciate your feedback!
Sally is running 3-4 seconds faster at TWS, so she is running her M3 very hard and not getting limp mode. The water pump is an interesting theory. I want the CSF radiator and DCT cooler upgrades for the car after it is out of warranty. Ortho281 had a bad coolant temperature sensor.
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      09-21-2015, 11:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrd View Post
When I had the oil cooler installed, my shop cleaned and inspected the radiator - they said it looked fine. Thanks for the suggestions.
Before changing oil weight, I'd check the brand of water wetter you're using. They're not all created equal. Hyperlube supercoolant is one of the best. Assuming your water pump is ok, then this should help out. If it doesn't do the trick, then I'm voting water pump.
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Last edited by Killerfish2012; 09-21-2015 at 11:41 PM.
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      09-22-2015, 12:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Replace the coolant temperature sensor.
So the sensor might be indicating an erroneously high temp if the sensor is faulty? Makes sense but my oil temps are spiking, too. Is there an oil coolant temperature sensor as well?
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      09-22-2015, 12:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Replace the coolant temperature sensor.
This! Simple things first.
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      09-22-2015, 12:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
Sally is running 3-4 seconds faster at TWS, so she is running her M3 very hard and not getting limp mode. The water pump is an interesting theory. I want the CSF radiator and DCT cooler upgrades for the car after it is out of warranty. Ortho281 had a bad coolant temperature sensor.
Sally is impressively faster! The coolant temperature sensor might explain it. I'm getting the red high temp light more frequently now. I'll likely do the water pump as well.
Thanks, Scott.
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      09-22-2015, 06:32 AM   #15
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When Ortho had the problem, he would get coolant readings like 400F.
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      09-22-2015, 12:53 PM   #16
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Sorry about your troubles and hope you find a solution. Are you sure you removed all of the air from the coolant system? I know that has caused issues on other platforms. If you have an air compressor I believe there is a device you can attach to it that will suck the air from your coolant system.

Also, I'm curious what group you folks go out with? I'm taking my new-to-me e92 m3 out for the first time in November with The Driver's Edge at TWS (yellow grp). Can't wait!
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      09-22-2015, 01:04 PM   #17
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Mobbin - you'll have a great time with Rick at TWS.
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      09-22-2015, 02:00 PM   #18
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It would seem that you have some basic issue (water pump, temp sensor, etc) or a combination of those as has been mentioned, but for the purposes of some attracted to this thread title and looking for alternative heat exchangers for the M3: http://www.do88.se/en/artiklar/hose-...e90/index.html
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      09-22-2015, 06:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mobbin View Post
Sorry about your troubles and hope you find a solution. Are you sure you removed all of the air from the coolant system? I know that has caused issues on other platforms. If you have an air compressor I believe there is a device you can attach to it that will suck the air from your coolant system.

Also, I'm curious what group you folks go out with? I'm taking my new-to-me e92 m3 out for the first time in November with The Driver's Edge at TWS (yellow grp). Can't wait!
Hey Mobbin - I'll be running with you in November with TDE. You might want to get a garage. It's worth $60 - especially if it's raining in November.

I've bled out the air from the coolant system several times - thanks.

Look forward to running with you in a few weeks. Hopefully, I'll be running cooler!
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      09-22-2015, 06:43 PM   #20
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When Ortho had the problem, he would get coolant readings like 400F.
I certainly can't afford to blow another engine - what's the ETA on yours?
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      09-22-2015, 06:48 PM   #21
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I plan to install a new water pump, coolant temperature sensor and oil temperature sensor next week. I'll post my results.

Depending on the results, I may go ahead with 15w-50 as it's an easy option and Bimmerworld, Turner and others use and recommend it. I'm open to more advice against this.

Thanks for all the suggestion, folks! Please keep them coming.
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      09-22-2015, 10:37 PM   #22
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What does it do on the street? On E36 M3s, if they overheat only on the track, it is nearly always a warped head or a head gasket issue. Haven't really heard that on S65s though. Are the coolant hoses really hard when you come in? Pushing coolant out the overflow?
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